Tyranid Unit of the Week 10th Ed Zoanthropes and Neurothropes

[Brother Nathan]

++Zoanthropes and Neurothropes++

 

 

 

 

 

We have a new unit of the week! the age old zoans.. the neurothrope now being a part of the unit, how much has this changed things for you? 

 

 

 

To compliment a list, or to build a list around? Will the beta rules affect your list(s)? And at what points restrictions?

What size unit? Will you be running multiple units?

What Enhancements, Hyper Adaptations and Stratagems do you prefer and how much does it depend on the above choices?

Are you buffing this unit? If so, how?

Edited September 3, 2023 by Brother nathan

[Brother Nathan]

BBBbbbbbbZZZZAAAPpppp...

 

Probably on eof my longest running favouriteest nid units and i dont even have the cool plastic ones yet. and theey still seem amazing in 10th with possibly one of their best rounded rule sets yet. no longer dealing mortals but each model getting its own ability to actually shoot and no risky powers or confusing build role. and they support as well as ever.

 

synapse, win. 

inv saves to those near them good. only 6++ but is all game instead of once per game. great for hordes, less useful on better stuff where its harder to get them down that far. 

its own stats are still good, t5 4++ 3 w

and zaapps... multiple options...

24''

d3 blast bs 3+ str7 -2ap d3 damage 

24''

1 lethal hits bs 3+ str 12 -3 ap d6+1

combined wtih hyper adaptions those are nice... 

spirit leech, battle shock healing so the neurothope does something... unlikely but ill take it...

 

and finally 30 points per model.... what... thats... will be a fair few 18 zoan lists. i love them. probably our best antitank. and anti infantry. never going to be able to find them on the shelves... 

[ZeroWolf]

I was going to question the anti-tank comment, and than I saw the focused profile. That is super helpful. I may be adding some to my swarm.

[Brother Nathan]

vaguely remembering but i think in 5th they had a similarish profile but also had lance... and warp blast and both profiles were excellent. how blast seems to work this edition a few of them could do major damage

[Arson Fire]

These things are the best anti-tank option in the codex, and with their blast profile they're pretty solid at taking out infantry too. I find it hard to pass up taking 2 full units of them (I'm lucky I already got lots of them in earlier editions).

They're a bit slow. Walking them up with a hive tyrant to grant their guns Assault helps, but you probably want to think about walking some in from a table edge to help get them into range.

 

The neurothrope ability is kinda forgettable. It exists, you get it for free, but I wouldn't expect it to come up much.

 

The main weakness on these guys is getting stuck in melee. You want to keep them screened against assaults. The new vanguard detachment also looks handy, with the stratagem to let them run away when something gets close.

[Xenith]

Absolute stand out unit for me, but I'm biased, I love the brainy bugs. 30pts for the profile is worth it, but the gun on top is ace. The 6++ aura is decent, and enough. Remember, all it has to do is keep one gaunt alive until your command phase so you can endless swarm them. 

 

I've just started a crusade army and got one game in, but these have been star players, due to luck (but I make my own luck?). Haruspex passed at least 2 6++ saves when being focussed by a gladiator lancer under oath, saving his bacon, combined with rapid regen he stayed in the game. When it came to shooting, they're basically 24" lethal hits lascannons, which we don't get elsewhere in the army. 

 

They're decent enough to still be a good pick even with the neuro/spirit leach ability being useless. So much of the nid stuff has cripplingly short ranges of effectiveness/ What's the point in a 6" range power on a unit that wants to be 24" away? Poor design there, on an otherwise good unit. 

The tip about the tyrant making them assault to advance up is also great, hadn't thought of that one, definitely stealing! 

[Brother Nathan]

Deffinately keeping minr in range of tyrant for that too because gonna need that extra move atleast first turn plus keeps a melee threat with them

[Xenith]

How are people using them? 1x 6 or 2x3? After one game using 6, I didn't see the point and thought 2x3 gives much better synapse and invuln coverage, and gives an additional neurothrope, 2x3 is also easier to hide and gives greater board control.

 

Conversely, the new strats and upgrades, as well as the regen strat is obviously better on the larger unit, and 1x6 is easier to keep in range of other model's auras, like the psychophage, tyrant, venomthropes, etc.

 

I personally would stick with units of 3, until you have 9 zoans and want more 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Xenith

[Brother Nathan]

after looking at my list and re adjusting i originally had 1x3, but realised for the difference id rather have more zoans than warriors so its now 2x3. the other thing to go for 3s is blast... more board coverage better chance of higher run rolls if staying in range of tyrant. strats arnt as much of a concern- cn only heal one so better to have 2 damaged units than just  healing one model? . seems to potentially be better to go with 3s till you have 3 units. also unlikely but better to have 2 neurothope threats... ~(ill over hype it to my opponent even though i expect it to do naught...) 

 

 

[Xenith]

Also have to say I've been unimpressed with the blast profile so far - though I've only been fighting hard targets like marines. 

 

For a unit of 3, unless you're shotting at things to get the blast bonus, on average one of your D3 shots will be a 1, meaning you're strictly worse off than using the lance shot. After that, unless you're hitting T3, you'll be wounding on a 3+ instead of a 2+ with the lance which is another means of failing. After that you have the worse ap, and D3 damage to stand 2 additional chance of not killing a marine. I'd just go all lance, all the time, unless shooting units of 10+, or T3 models. 

 

Back of the envelope maths, if anyone can do it better it would be much appreciated:

Warp blast: 2/3 to hit, 2/3 to wound, 2/3 failed saves = 29% chance of 1 wound going through. 9% chance of doing 1 wound, 19% chance of killing a marine (rolling 2 or 3 on the d3). If we get 2 shots that go through to cause damage, there's a 5/9 chance of killing 1 meq (16%) (1+1, 1+2, 2+1, 1+3, 3+1),  and 4/9 chance of killing 2 (12%). 

 

Lance: 2/3 to hit, 5/6 to wound, 5/6 failed saves = 46% of 1 wound going through = 1 dead marine. Better than that actually, because of lethal hits.

 

Warp blast should have been D3+1 [Blast] shots or something, to make it better than Lance. 

 

There might be a balance point on shooting a unit of 5 MEQ to average 3 shots each. 

[Brother Nathan]

Iv not looked too much at the math but against infantry it seems very dependant on target. Lance is nobrainer against termys for eg but blast prob does better against 10+model units. It may be like the desolator unit vs infinit guardsmen that at a certain point the extra shots from blast can overcome any target of size(for each 5 men a full unit gets 6 more shots and if you have 6s to hit giving an extra hit... )but with units accross the board seemingly limited to 20 its fairly moot and more often a waste of zoans but curious regardless. ... will do some math later if work is quiet ... target? 

[Brother Nathan]

math time. 6 zoans- (makes it way easier)

lance-1 shot 3+ str 12 -3ap, d6+1 lethal hits. 

against anything t6 or less...

4 hits, (one auto wound.)2s to wound- 2.5 wounds plus auto wound. -3 ap. marines saving on 6+=3fails d6+1 damagedaverages 4 damage.. so likely 3 dead. likely to remain. termys will be on inv saves, which i think mean 2 dead. unit size makes no differance. can be slightly buffed with sustained hits or reroll ones. 

 

warp blast.

d3 3+ 7 -2 d3 blast

averages 2 shots. base

 

vs 5 marines. 

2 base +1(BLAST)  x6z=18 shots. 12 hits, 3s to wound-8 wounds- saves on 5+ -5.3 say 5. d3 wounds so2 on average. would be 5 average dead but we know how that goes...

 

vs 10 marines.

2 base plus 2(BLAST) x6=24 =16hits 3s to wound= 10.6wounds saves on 5+ 7.1= 7 dead on average average marines.... 

 

vs termysx5

2 base +1(BLAST)  x6z=18 shots. 12 hit  3s to wound-8 wounds- saves on 4+=4 through- d3v 3 wounds models. at 3 wounds averages 2 dead which equals lance... at worst 1 with all 1s. 

 

vs 10 termys 

2 base plus 2(BLAST) x6=24 =16hits 3s to wound= 10.6wounds saves 4+so say 5 average damage- 2 dead, one wounded... gross... 

 

blast vs... guardsmenx10

2 base +2(BLAST)x6=24==16 hits 2s to wound. 13- 5+guardsmen all die... 4+ also all die 11.1 failed. 

 

vs guardsmenx20

 

2 base+4(blast) x6=36= 24 hits-  2s to wound 20 wounds- 5+ all dead. 4+ =16 dead

 

in other words opponents should be thankful zoans come in 3/6. blast units matching up to 5s/10 puts them as a break point for crippling certain units...