Best anti tank options for a Foot Slog list

[Rustican]

I want to make a foot  slog list but not sure what the best anti tank options are. Im thinking of two full squads of eradicators. Or are Desolation squads better?

 

 

[Karhedron]

Eradicators are quite good. Whilst Oath of Moment is being toned down, they retain full rerolls to Hit, Wound and Damage against Tanks/Monsters. The main issue is range so you will need to consider how you actually get them close to their targets. Land Raiders or Repulsors are your main options but they do increase the cost. Of course a Land Raider is a pretty decent anti-tank unit in its own right with 4 Lascannon shots on a tough, mobile platform.

 

Desolation squads don't look good to me. Since the balance update, they are 200 points for 4 S10 shots plus some indirect fire. If you want a ranged squad then Devastators are much better as you can get 4 S12 Lascannon shots for 120 points. Significantly better against T10-12 targets and nearly half the price.

[Marshal Mittens]

Eradicators, 3x3 man squads is a good option for anti tank / anti big friendly monster. And they do ok against elite infantry too. Eliminators with Lasfusils are ok against light vehicles and many monsters too. 

[Medjugorje]

honestly - Eradicators are bad.

 

Footslog can function when you take 6x5 Crusader squad with Lascannon and one squad with 20 Primaris crusader which include Castellan with Tannhausers bones and Helbrecht wich makes autwounds on 5s which kill everything + Grimaldus + 20 Primaris Crusaders. And 1to 2 davastor squads with Grav guns are crazy good - 3 shots which wounds on2s with 3dmg each - but you have to take one of them in reserve.

 

2 weeks before I played a 2day tournament. I had Eridacators in my list. Bad range in movement and weapon. S9 with 4 shots is not good althoug you can reroll everything. Especially at this time when you can reroll all wounds against Oath-targets then the Multimeltas on Impulsors used to be far better because of their movement. 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Medjugorje

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Medjugorje said:

honestly - Eradicators are bad.

 

Footslog can function when you take 6x5 Crusader squad with Lascannon and one squad with 20 Primaris crusader which include Castellan with Tannhausers bones and Helbrecht wich makes autwounds on 5s which kill everything + Grimaldus + 20 Primaris Crusaders. And 1to 2 davastor squads with Grav guns are crazy good - 3 shots which wounds on2s with 3dmg each - but you have to take one of them in reserve.

 

2 weeks before I played a 2day tournament. I had Eridacators in my list. Bad range in movement and weapon. S9 with 4 shots is not good althoug you can reroll everything. Especially at this time when you can reroll all wounds against Oath-targets then the Multimeltas on Impulsors used to be far better because of their movement. 

 

 

?

 

Eradicators are bad compared to msu crusaders or grav cannon devastators?

 

Eradicators average about 7.9 damage to t10+ 3+ and about 6.5 to t10+ 2+. Out of melta range, not taking advantage of Heavy; you'll rarely get heavy, but taking advantage of the melta bonus changes it to 11.4 and 9.5

 

A crusader lascannon averages about 1.2 damage to t11- 3+, about 1 damage to t11- 2+, about 0.9 damage to t12 3+, and about 0.7 damage to t12 2+. Not taking advantage of Heavy; with the bonus it changes to 1.6, 1.3, 1.2, and 1 respectively.

 

A grav squad averages about 7.5 damage to a vehicle with 3+ armour and 4.9 to a vehicle with 2+. Not taking advantage of Heavy; with the bonus it turns to about 9.9 and 6.5. The cherub adds about an additional 1.2 and 0.9 damage to each armour bracket roll.  It's worth pointing out that grav completely drops against Monsters, like wraith constructs, Tyranids, ctan, and daemons.

 

But all these cost different amounts of points:

 

• 3 Eradicators are 95
• 5 crusaders are 65
• 5 devastators are 120

Are three units of crusaders for 195 doing the same output as two units of of eradicators for 190? Not even close. How about 3 units of gravs for 360 compared to 12 eradicators? Again, not close. There's arguments to be made about consistent output from the lascannons due to range, or how oaths will increase the reliability of the las and grav, but from a sheer point comparison, eradicators are the best option when you can apply their weapons. And you can just chuck them into strategic reserves if you don't want to spend points on a repulsor. 

 

 

[Medjugorje]

but the Crusadersquad is a unit which you take anyway because footslogging. If you have Eradicators then this unit is the first unit which is targeted by all anti tank weapons!!!

The crusader squad NOT.  The devastor squad is the first target... this is correct.  Eradicators most likely better then the devastors althoug I could imagine that 200 points for a 10 man squad is not that bad ( 80 points for additional 5 bodies which could help if you take more of them). But honestly 2x20 with enough fists and stratagem to autowound and castellan for autowounds are the best way to kill tanks and your opponent knows that --> but 5+++ is hard in comparison to the normal crusadersquad and so I think footslogging -->

 

2x20 P-Crusaders 

1x Grimaldus

1x Helbrecht + Castellan Tannhausers

6x5 Crusaders  

 

means a bit of shooting and a lot of close combat. maybe 3x10 Jump packs with Jump pack Chaplain for 5,5 mortals and +1 to wound is a thing too. And even faster and everything still the same statline with T4 3+ 2W

 

 

[Rustican]

This was the 2000pts list i was planning on making.

Helbretch

Grimaldus

EC

Castellan (Tanhausers Bones)

 

3 x 5 Crusaders with las + plas

2x20 PCS (Helbretch/Castellan  and Grimaldus lead a squad each)

3x3 Eradicator squads

1x5 PSB squad (EC here)

1x Scout Snipers

1x10 Terminator squad

 

I was thinking of either marching everything up the board with the Terminators drawing most of the fire eradicators .  OR putting the eradicators in reserve and having them come out when needed.

[SkimaskMohawk]

22 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

but the Crusadersquad is a unit which you take anyway because footslogging.

 

Why? Like ya, they're cheap as dirt and I'd take maybe one or two to sit on objectives, but not just to take them for the sake of taking them for almost 400 points. You can take many other footslogging options that fulfill an actual purpose for that many points.

[Karhedron]

23 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

The devastor squad is the first target... this is correct.  Eradicators most likely better then the devastors althoug I could imagine that 200 points for a 10 man squad is not that bad ( 80 points for additional 5 bodies which could help if you take more of them). 

 

Rather than 80 points for 5 ablative bodies, I would rather spend 120 points and just get another Dev squad. It doubles the firepower and your opponent still has to kill 10 Marines to shut down all the lascannons.

[CCE1981]

I’ve tried 6-man Eradicator squads, even 2x 6-man units with attached Biologis placed in Strategic Reserves.  Had some initial success, but that started to die out really quickly.  Toughness 6 is the only thing they have going for them defensively and it isn’t anywhere near as good as it sounds, even worse with any bit of ApP.  They have to get close and I noticed I was typically losing 2-3 guys in overwatch from their preferred targets.  Invulnerable saves are their absolute bane, even a 5++ invulnerable significantly hurts their damage output, Emperor forbid a 4++.  

[Karhedron]

On 9/21/2023 at 1:41 AM, CCE1981 said:

I noticed I was typically losing 2-3 guys in overwatch from their preferred targets.

 

Out of interest, what were you attacking? Overwatch only hits on a 6. I can't think of many weapons that roll enough dice and have high enough Strength and AP to kill multiple Eradicators.

[CCE1981]

4 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Out of interest, what were you attacking? Overwatch only hits on a 6. I can't think of many weapons that roll enough dice and have high enough Strength and AP to kill multiple Eradicators.

Knights were doing that, Nids Tyrannofex has a Torrent Weapon with D6+6 hits at S6, AP-2, 2d.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Is a knight with a 5+ and 6+ FNP their preferred target or their absolute bane? 

 

Because here's the actual context; an equivalent amount of points of eradicators outside of melta range will one-round a knight. The 475 point crusader, staying place for sustained hits and using a stratagem to pre-emptively kill your stuff to reduce your output needs to kill a minimum 3 models to not die to them. And in a templars subforum where many people are going to be running Righteous Crusaders and the 6fnp...they don't. 

 

Like having a bad experience sucks, but it's an anecdote; I've had 3 Eradicators burn down a monolith but I'm not going to say expect that every time. But for their points, theyre still heavily reliable.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[CCE1981]

That Knight is going to have a 4+ save from Rotate Ion Shields. 
 

Equivalent amount of points against that ONE Crusader means that you ignore the other two, and the five Armigers alone.

 

Multiple times I have evenly split fire on those Eradicators into two Eldar Star Weavers.  They only have T 6 and 6 wounds and only once did I kill one. The other dozen or so times I fought for even one of them to go through.

 

The problem with Eradicators is that each unit has one shot to do their damage, if they miss they are either dead or against Eldar never getting in range again.  Start them on the board, they will die before getting a use. Their only options for transport are expensive, and deny opportunities for other options.  The worse part is compare them to Aggressors, attach a 5pt Biologis with Bolter Discipline to each.  The Aggressor unit is far more reliable, and can fight in close combat.

 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Cool, your opponent has now spent more resources and can expect to survive that trade. Maybe the rest of your army can shoot/charge an oaths target? Like the whole draw of the eradicators is that they're supplemental anti tank and can focus a different target compared to the rest of your high impact shooting. 

 

I'm going to refer back to my comment about bad experiences and anecdotes; 3 Eradicators outside of melta range kill a starweaver on average. If it consistently doesn't happen I'm sure it's super frustrating, but it's literally just being very unlucky. 

 

A fully upgraded aggressor unit is obviously going to do some work; it's a unit you're trying to pull a big combo with, but more reliable against vehicles? A full unit running the full combo (biologus, enhancement, dev doctrine, storm of fire, closest unit, oaths) averages 18.6 damage onto anything t8+ with a 3+ for 280 points. That's like, 190 of eradicators output, out of melta range. Also, if you're planning a black templar footslog list, you might not be taking a gladius to unlock that combo.

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

That Knight is going to have a 4+ save from Rotate Ion Shields. 

 

CPs are a scarce resource in 10th. If your opponent is using both RIS and Overwatch in the same turn, they are not using CPs for rerolls or any other stratagems.

[Tokugawa]

Eradicators are good when oath changes remove many wound rerolls elsewhere.

 

Devastators with lascannon/grav are cheap, but I won't buy any old scale marine models now, and don't recommend any other player to buy. We all know what will be their destiny in future editions.

 

 

[Orange Knight]

Eradicators are the best infantry option for anti-tank but they require delivery.

 

This can come in many forms - A transport, Infiltration from a detachment rule, deepstrike from a character ability, etc.

 

I am also of the opinion that the classic range should be avoided at this point. I don't see the last few non-Primaris kits in the codex lasting into the next edition.

 

Also, it's possible that Desolators will get a point drop again in future. The Unit needs to be priced around the 150 point mark for 5. GW overreaction are extremely frustrating, and this was one such example.

[Helias_Tancred]

I've struggled with delivery for them ... foot slogging is ok if you have other distractor units on the board, but that 5" movement means they will usually not be firing until at the earliest 2nd turn, sometimes 3rd turn. For my game yesterday they didn't start shooting until turn 3. Going forward I'm thinking of putting them in a Repulsor? I'm playing Black Templars btw.