Sequencing of After an Action Abilities/ Stratagems

[Styles]

I had something that came up last night which was not clear.

 

A unit finished a move and the Stratagem Over Watch was used on the unit::

"just after an enemy unit is set up or when an enemy unit starts or ends a Normal, Advance, Fall Back, or Charge Move".

 

The dice were rolled and some models killed. I then went to use the Adeptus Custodes Enhancement Ceaseless Hunter, which is used:

"when an enemy unit ends a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move within 9 of the bearer"

 

As to me both are out of phase stratagems/abilities, but as Overwatch has the "just after" caveat it had to be used first in this case. But my opponent said I should have declared both at the same time and as it was his turn he would normally pick the order, but in this case Overwatch would go first. I cannot find any rule that supports this? As to me both abilities are out of sequence and happen after the enemy has moved. So in this case Overwatch would be used due to the "just after", then I could wait to see that outcome and use ceasless hunter if i wanted as it still fulfils the 

"when an enemy unit ends a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move within 9 of the bearer"?

 

As if he is right then say in another situation I had a unit of necrons overwatch an enemy and a hexmark destroyer who can also overwatch for free and do it even though another unit has overwatched. I would have to declare both at the same time, my opponent would pick the order. He picks Hexmark who then kills enemy unit and the other unit then has no unit to shoot at. So what happens then? They lose a CP but did nothing? Seems to me in that case I would actually shoot Overwatch with a necron unit, do all rolls for that, then after that I could declare the hexmark was also shooting overwatch. I would not have to declare both at the same time. 

 

 

 

 

[Arikel]

I would agree that you should have to declare both at the same time, as they are both to be resolved against the same unit for the same move.

I am unclear as to why your opponent would get to pick the order.  As the person playing the stratagems, that should be your choice what order they are resolved in, not theirs, regardless of whose turn it is.

[Cleon]

I think your opponent is confusing the 'both players want to do something triggered at the same time' tiebreaker with a catch all 'active player chooses action sequence' rule that doesn't as far as I'm aware exist.

 

Rules wise I think it's appropriate to declare both actions at once as you are committing to it based on the move (trigger point), not based on the overwatch, so you need to decide to do it before you know how effective the overwatch actually was.

[jaxom]

On 9/26/2023 at 3:01 AM, Styles said:

As to me both abilities are out of sequence and happen after the enemy has moved. So in this case Overwatch would be used due to the "just after", then I could wait to see that outcome and use ceasless hunter if i wanted as it still fulfils the 

"when an enemy unit ends a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move within 9 of the bearer"?

If I were to think about why they need to played at the same time then working out Overwatch means the resolution of actions was no longer at "when an enemy unit ends [a move]" but was now at "when Overwatch has been resolved". So you could play both in response to the same trigger, "when an enemy unit ends [a move]" but they'd have to played simultaneously.