Unusual or Unexpected Detachment & Unit Combinations

[jaxom]

Now that all the information is out in the wild, what are people finding? I'll get us started.

 

Anvilus detachment and Intercessors (Tacticus and Gravis) with their Assault+Heavy weapons. You can stay still and get +1 to wound (now getting high volume of wounding most things on 5s) and when it comes time to move, you can Advance and still shoot.

[SkimaskMohawk]

If we're talking anvilus then Heavy Ints look really nice, as that str 5 is a pretty solid breakpoint to add a +1 to wound on (also the range). Eliminators are also pretty nice, as they also want to stay still to hit on 2s and proc devastating, while also getting to deploy up the board. Las heavy support filled out with meatshields look actually very threatening, and desolators also look kinda threatening with superfrags,  though 200 for 5 still stings a lot.

 

For the tank detachment, I honestly think firestrike turrets look good; they hit on 2s and have twinlinked, so the reroll can be saved for the damage. They're also vehicles and benefit from lethal hits aura enhancement and the strat that gives sustained hits to stuff under starting strength. Obviously as many vehicles in the bubble with rate of fire, and other units with quality shooting to take advantage of the rerolls (like eliminators again).

 

 

[CCE1981]

Boltstorm Agressors to retain their crazy damage in several detachments to various degrees.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The current Gladius combo is simple; you take the enhancement, mark target with oath, move them (with advance as well) close to what they need to kill, and spend the CP and doctrine to burn it down. 

 

A lot of the output hinges on the total -2 (plus ignore cover) and 5+ proc of both lethal and sustained hits. You try to do something similar in the fists detachment and you're missing out at -1 ap and ignores cover, as well as requiring you to stay still to get the 5+ critical hits, really limiting your play with 18" guns (and making it unlikely to get the other point of AP). 

 

[Tacitus]

6 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

If we're talking anvilus then Heavy Ints look really nice, as that str 5 is a pretty solid breakpoint to add a +1 to wound on (also the range). Eliminators are also pretty nice, as they also want to stay still to hit on 2s and proc devastating, while also getting to deploy up the board. Las heavy support filled out with meatshields look actually very threatening, and desolators also look kinda threatening with superfrags,  though 200 for 5 still stings a lot.

 

For the tank detachment, I honestly think firestrike turrets look good; they hit on 2s and have twinlinked, so the reroll can be saved for the damage. They're also vehicles and benefit from lethal hits aura enhancement and the strat that gives sustained hits to stuff under starting strength. Obviously as many vehicles in the bubble with rate of fire, and other units with quality shooting to take advantage of the rerolls (like eliminators again).

 

 

Eliminators got a huge boost by the death of Sniper Scout Squads.  But I'm still not sure they're "good".  3 and only 3 units are rarely worth their points because 3 and only 3 isn't enough of most things to pay off. Even without being slot limited 3 isn't enough for most CP Strats, isn't enough to do a specific job - they're gravy units.  Someone else does the work, and they're there for coup de grace etc. 

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

The current Gladius combo is simple; you take the enhancement, mark target with oath, move them (with advance as well) close to what they need to kill, and spend the CP and doctrine to burn it down. 

 

A lot of the output hinges on the total -2 (plus ignore cover) and 5+ proc of both lethal and sustained hits. You try to do something similar in the fists detachment and you're missing out at -1 ap and ignores cover, as well as requiring you to stay still to get the 5+ critical hits, really limiting your play with 18" guns (and making it unlikely to get the other point of AP). 

 

Yeah that combo should be as good or better in the "Fists" Det than any other.  I'm less convinced by the 18" range argument on smaller tables with more movement. 

[Cenobite Terminator]

It’ll be quite hilarious if Gladius is the go to detachment.

[Tacitus]

Just now, milddead said:

It’ll be quite hilarious if Gladius is the go to detachment.

I'll admit I haven't seen them all yet, just a bit of a few - But Gladius is still my usual choice. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Eliminators got a huge boost by the death of Sniper Scout Squads.  But I'm still not sure they're "good".  3 and only 3 units are rarely worth their points because 3 and only 3 isn't enough of most things to pay off. Even without being slot limited 3 isn't enough for most CP Strats, isn't enough to do a specific job - they're gravy units.  Someone else does the work, and they're there for coup de grace etc. 

 

Well they've been popping up in marine lists that have placed 1st tournaments since the points change, like the ultramarines list from fields of damnation, the DA list from war of the forge GT, and the blood angels list from Icehammer single. Theyre a very cheap way to add a little extra shooting, a little extra far-objective scoring, a bit of precision, a little feels-bad choice to shoot, and the ability to not bee shot at all. 

 

3 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Yeah that combo should be as good or better in the "Fists" Det than any other.  I'm less convinced by the 18" range argument on smaller tables with more movement. 

 

Uh, the chances of your opponent to wander into the 18" range so you can stay still is really bad. As is even having los if you use gw tournament layout or wtc layout. As soon as you move the combo is worse; you have less AP, you don't ignore cover, and the critical hits are on 6s. 

[L30n1d4s]

One unexpected combination is to use the Firestorm Assault Force (i.e. Salamander-themed Detachment) with a Stormraven and a Brutalis Dreadnought.

 

Turn 1, zoom the Stormraven 20" across the board right into your opponent's DZ, next to an Objective.... now, if your opponent shoots at the Stormraven, you can use the new "Burning Vengeance" Strat to disembark the Brutalis 3" in your opponent's Shooting Phase, and shoot back at the unit that shot the Stormraven with its Heavy Bolters/Heavy Stubbers (as required by the Strat)... more importantly, this means that your Brutalis is now on top of the Objective, protecting it from a melee assault and ready to move and charge into combat on your next turn if you need it.

[Dracos]

On 9/30/2023 at 7:12 PM, Tacitus said:

Eliminators got a huge boost by the death of Sniper Scout Squads.  But I'm still not sure they're "good".  3 and only 3 units are rarely worth their points because 3 and only 3 isn't enough of most things to pay off. Even without being slot limited 3 isn't enough for most CP Strats, isn't enough to do a specific job - they're gravy units.  Someone else does the work, and they're there for coup de grace etc. 

Yeah that combo should be as good or better in the "Fists" Det than any other.  I'm less convinced by the 18" range argument on smaller tables with more movement. 

At 75 points I’m finding it hard to keep them out of a competitive (vs my themed list). Chip+ damage is nice but they’re great action monkeys and deep strike denial also. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Dracos

[arnesh88]

One combo I want to try is Adrax + Combat Lieutenant + Bladeguard in a Firestorm detachment, with the Lieutenant given the "Champion of Humanity" enhancement. I think it can be a good "take-all-comers" melee unit. On top of Adrax and the Lieutenant being good in combat, you also have:

 

- Ignore negative modifiers

- Option to reroll 1s to hit (if not targeting OoM unit) or 1s to Saves

- Lethal Hits

- Reroll all wounds

- Option to gain +1 to wound with Crucible of Battle
- Ability to Fall Back and Charge if needed

 

Main challenge is going to be if you have enough points in your list to justify bringing them since the detachment loves aggressors, which sort of overlap, and probably surpass because of also having quality shooting.

[CCE1981]

Imperial Fists might like Phobos units.  The weapons on Infiltrators is Heavy, on top of Eliminators.   Through in a Phobos Captain and you can re-deploy three units of them.  
 

oh speaking of Imperial Fists.  Deploy Incursors in an Impulsor, scout move them.  Turn 1 disembark the Incursors, move Hellblasters into the Impulsor.  Shooting from the Firing Deck, the Impulsor is counted as shooting and didn’t move.

Edited October 2, 2023 by CCE1981

[CCE1981]

6x Plasma Inceptors in Firestorm…..

12x Str 8 AP -2 2d twin-linked shots  or

12x Str 9 AP -3 3d twin-linked shots

 

+1 to Wound Strat

Against your Oath of moment target that should do 16 wounds to a Land Raider on average….

 

 

[L30n1d4s]

Uriel Ventris in a Vanguard Spearhead detachment -- Uriel gives a selected Infantry unit (e.g. Sternguard, Hellblasters, Aggressors, Centurions, Bladeguard, you name it) Deep Strike before the battle begins. Then, in each of your opponent's turns after turn 1, at the end of their Fight phase, use the "Guerrilla Tactics" Strat to put the selected Infantry unit back into Strategic Reserve... in each of your subsequent turns, you can re-Deep Strike them anywhere on the board!

Edited October 3, 2023 by L30n1d4s

[Karhedron]

Here is a weird one, I think Space Wolves may be able to take units like Primaris Apothecary that they have traditionally been barred from using. The Champions of Russ Detachment excludes a bunch of units that are traditionally not Wolfy. Fair enough.

 

But the restriction is in the Detachment and you can use SW units in other Detachments. You could run an army composed of Space Wolf units and as long as you are using one of the standard Codex Detachments. you can also run all the traditionally not-Wolf units like Apothecaries and Tactical squads.

 

OK you give up your Sagas but I feel the SW Detachment rules are the weakest of any Chapter at the moment. Thunderwolf Cavalry in a Stormlance or pretty much any SW list in a Firestorm Detchament look pretty decent.

[DemonGSides]

Been that way since the start of the edition.

But if you do bring your apothecary, you know you're a dirty meta gamer.  And everyone around you knows.  For shame. Russ will be so disappointed :P

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Here is a weird one, I think Space Wolves may be able to take units like Primaris Apothecary that they have traditionally been barred from using. The Champions of Russ Detachment excludes a bunch of units that are traditionally not Wolfy. Fair enough.

 

But the restriction is in the Detachment and you can use SW units in other Detachments. You could run an army composed of Space Wolf units and as long as you are using one of the standard Codex Detachments. you can also run all the traditionally not-Wolf units like Apothecaries and Tactical squads.

6 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Been that way since the start of the edition.

But if you do bring your apothecary, you know you're a dirty meta gamer.  And everyone around you knows.  For shame. Russ will be so disappointed :P

Model it up like a Wolf Priest. He's just focusing on healing today instead of exhorting his brothers. At the moment I think a lot of the Wolve units are better than their Firstborn equivalents. 

[Sir Clausel]

15 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Here is a weird one, I think Space Wolves may be able to take units like Primaris Apothecary that they have traditionally been barred from using. The Champions of Russ Detachment excludes a bunch of units that are traditionally not Wolfy. Fair enough.

 

But the restriction is in the Detachment and you can use SW units in other Detachments. You could run an army composed of Space Wolf units and as long as you are using one of the standard Codex Detachments. you can also run all the traditionally not-Wolf units like Apothecaries and Tactical squads.

 

OK you give up your Sagas but I feel the SW Detachment rules are the weakest of any Chapter at the moment. Thunderwolf Cavalry in a Stormlance or pretty much any SW list in a Firestorm Detchament look pretty decent.

That way is also how you can use a witch with black templars. Also how you can run 6 gladiators if you want. 3 of the normal version and 3 bt. So BT will probably be the best for Ironstorm detachment

[jaxom]

6 minutes ago, Sir Clausel said:

So BT will probably be the best for Ironstorm detachment

Blood Angels - take all the dreadnoughts! And then use one psychic dreadnaught per turn to yeet your Tech-marines around the board to repair whatever needs repairing.

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, jaxom said:

Blood Angels - take all the dreadnoughts! And then use one psychic dreadnaught per turn to yeet your Tech-marines around the board to repair whatever needs repairing.

 

Sadly Blessing of the Omnissiah works in the Command phase while Wings of Sanguinius works in the Movement phase meaning they will be too late to patch anything up.

 

Still Blood Angels and Space Wolves get a lot of interesting variant Dreadnoughts so could definitely have some fun with Ironstorm.

[Paladin777]

Furioso and DC dreads having -3 AP is rather interesting indeed. 
 

as is the Librarian dread yeeting things across the board!

 

however, with that many dreadnaughts, there won't be much to yeet!

Edited October 6, 2023 by Paladin777

[chapter master 454]

Again, imo, Centurions and the Vanguard taskforce. While not fast moving, they are T7 infantry (so move through ruins freely so easy to hide turn 1) with a 2+ save so anything shooting them needs to be AP2 to get anywhere (or ignore cover which at distance isn't too common except for tau) and even then with armour of contempt you can make them save even AP3 weapons on a 3+ and 4 wounds each is a major break-point against plasma of all flavours as even heavier grade plasma caps out at 3 damage and even if its AP4 with contempt you can save on 4+.

Further to that, any attempts to charge them can be confounded by the whole "Imma move on charge declare" or even just the fact that a 6 man blob of them is an excellent choice for overwatch.

 

I find it amusing that I feel the sneaky detachments now for a couple of editions has been the best for centurions just because they don't play well with transports imo and especially right now with the rather mediorce way we have to pay for break points, not models. Yes, they need to be out of 12" to get the benefit and only move 4" but with how much ruins dominate the game and how turn 1 of the game is often more a game of "and you can't see past there", I would actually say that Advancing them turn 1 isn't even a waste as most people will measure out the 28" threat range for grav-turions. Just move a block of 6 (or I am planning to test 12) up into the centre of the board and make people come to you, and again overwatch would be fairly painful to take off them and if you want to charge, you must be within 12" and that's rapid fire. Yea, the bolters got nerfed but they still output a ton of shots that will chew up chaff and grav cannons have high enough rate to cut through higher grade stuff as well.

Oh and they don't exactly have weedy melee ether. Not great but considering they are a gun unit and swing with that sort of profile, kind of nuts.

 

Assault centurions...not sure. You could go for the distraction carnifex approach with a full 6 blob that waddles to mid-field with flamers and just kind of see how that plays out. Again, if you are outside of 12" they get cover regardless of position so you can be incredibly beligerent with placing them with fairly good margins of error as even if they can get clipped by a couple of units, unlikely to do anything major.

 

Only downside is no character can lead them so they are quite literally just leaning on throwing their stats around raw...and by all accounts they have the stats for it. T7, 4W and 2+ save. That's a lot of interesting break points. Plasma has to overcharge and risk hazard to actually be a merit against them and getting to damage 4 on weapons is nearly a sole region of anti-tank guns which could easily overkill and waste damage as a 6 man is 24 wounds total. Place some annoyances around them like infiltrators to help screen out attempts to deep-strike and incursors to give them +1 to hit with their innate re-roll 1s to hit and you only now have to scale the mountain that is wounding, but when 18 shots odds on to be all hits, even a 5+ to wound on grav-cannons, that's 6 wounds. Though that being said...they did take a major nerf to their AP so most monsters will bounce their shots if their armour if remotely good. However monsters are the only issue here, as vehicles will take wounds on 2+ and having to save 15 saves, even at 3+ due to having cover (because how will you not have cover?) is still 5 failed saves totaling 15 damage. Granted if you have a 2+ save it looks better at only 9 damage but...that's still 9 damage.

 

Don't know, I just have a thing for wanting to make centurions work...I am the oddball who actually likes them.

And to point it out: the least stealthy looking thing is actually benefiting the most from a detachment that is about stealthy boys.

[Dracos]

I like you concept. I just think it works better with Terminators for the very reason it can benefit from character buffs 

[CCE1981]

I am wondering if the Impulsors required the “Tacitus” keyword or “ only allows units with the ‘Tacitus’ keyword”.  It’s possible that you can put Devastators or Tactical Squads in Impulsors if it is the first one.

[Malakithe]

7 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

I am wondering if the Impulsors required the “Tacitus” keyword or “ only allows units with the ‘Tacitus’ keyword”.  It’s possible that you can put Devastators or Tactical Squads in Impulsors if it is the first one.

No Impulsors and Rhinos have the same restrictions which is kinda silly at this point