New Codex thoughts

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

12 hours ago, Eilio Tiberius said:

 

Big ditto! I want everything I need to access on cards in front of me on the edge of the table! I was loving that. I hate having to lug around hardback books.

 

The codex cards are a sore spot with me. The index cards released and they were physically larger, included Detachment information,  and here in the U.S.  were $25 instead of $40.  I look at what we got for $40 and it's crap comparatively. They can keep that cheeky gold foil crap. I love the idea of cards, but the index card format was better than what we're getting with the codex releases.

 

Overall I like the new Space Marine codex. My only gripe is the Oath of Moment nerf. Totally un-needed. I appreciate how the different detachments are themed around an original founding chapter, yet any chapter can use them. As was mentioned, it's the best of both worlds. It allows a Salamander player to play his army in the thematic way they traditionally do, but again lets an Imperial Fist player run a lighter more stealthy army if they want? 

 

I’d say having full rerolls to hit and wound on a target wasn’t needed for marines to be competitive.

 

the nerf might have been unnecessary, but the prenerf rule also seemed unnecessary.

[Paladin777]

The 46% win rate prenerf suggests otherwise.

 

I will admit that the rule is a bit silly, but the faction was reasonably balanced with it. Some of the other detachments might be fine (fire storm and Vanguard look specifically promising), but I'm pretty sure that Gladius is gonna be pretty much dead in competitive play though. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

38 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

The 46% win rate prenerf suggests otherwise.

 

I will admit that the rule is a bit silly, but the faction was reasonably balanced with it. Some of the other detachments might be fine (fire storm and Vanguard look specifically promising), but I'm pretty sure that Gladius is gonna be pretty much dead in competitive play though. 

Of course there’s going to be detachments that are better than others, but rerolling wounds in combo with an ability that increases weapon strength would likely be over the top.

 

46% win rate is still very competitive, and within their balance goal of +/- 5% of a 50% win rate.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Paladin777]

I'm still very curious about how it's gonna shape up. That's all.

[Minsc]

2 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

The 46% win rate prenerf suggests otherwise.

 

I will admit that the rule is a bit silly, but the faction was reasonably balanced with it. Some of the other detachments might be fine (fire storm and Vanguard look specifically promising), but I'm pretty sure that Gladius is gonna be pretty much dead in competitive play though. 

 
Gladius still has the Bolter Drill Enhancement (or is it called...Fire Drill now?) at its disposal, which will probably count for something.

It probably won't be the strongest Detachment, but I'm pretty sure it wont be (completely) dead. That spot is reserved for the 1st Company Task Force... yikes!

 

[Paladin777]

And Stormlance for everyone who isn't Space Wolves or Raven Wing. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Paladin777

[Karhedron]

11 hours ago, Minsc said:

 Gladius still has the Bolter Drill Enhancement (or is it called...Fire Drill now?) at its disposal, which will probably count for something.

 

Fire Discipline (new name) is very good, almost mandatory but only buffs one squad. If your opponent finds it is causing too much pain, it will not be too hard to delete. Stratagems and Enhancements are definitely worth looking at but the core detachment rules are really what makes or breaks the faction.

[Tacitus]

13 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Of course there’s going to be detachments that are better than others, but rerolling wounds in combo with an ability that increases weapon strength would likely be over the top.

 

46% win rate is still very competitive, and within their balance goal of +/- 5% of a 50% win rate.

+S and Reroll Wounds wasn't the problem.  I assume there's an upcoming fix to the various anti-tank stuff.  Rerolling Wound on 5 vs Vehicles was probably very necessary.  Turning *Fists and Thunderhammers, Klaws and Saws,  etc into 4 attacks S8 D3 or 2 Attacks S12 D5 so close combat armies can hurt vehicles with a reroll wounds might cause issues.  They've repeated the 8th edition close combat mistakes in a new way.  They're going to need to buff the melee weapons to keep up with the vehicle stat bands. 

[chapter master 454]

One thing I think about is the use of the various special characters. Only talking basic marines here, not divergents.

Ultramarines bring the most, Imperial Fist and Salamanders have 2 each, Raven Guard, White Scars and Iron Hands all have 1 each. Each bringing their own unique benefits though I would consider Fierros a little confused.

I know there are those who would boo and hiss me out of the place for suggesting that use of these characters should be colour locked but I do wonder what people think of each of these dudes.

From my gleanings, Shrike imo is better being a second Callidus assassin, jumping around the board by himself doing objectives and if given chance strike at something vulnerable and Garadon and Lysander seem fairly solid adds to units they can join.

Not sure about the others, not gave them a proper look yet.

 

Certainly they have their costs in being unable to take enhancements, but they do give unique options.

One list theory I am playing with in my head is some sort of Heavy Intercessor block, 2x 10 man squads, lead by Biologuses and a gravis captain in one and Garadon in the other, Enhance the non-garadon unit with Artitect and Stoic Defender in Anvilus and aim to just get them sitting on objective markers in the middle of the field and just sit there. Would require serious back-up but that list is playing with also have 2x 10 man intercessors led by Librarians...kind of just going in a horde style with bolter drill!

[WrathOfTheLion]

21 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

I know there are those who would boo and hiss me out of the place for suggesting that use of these characters should be colour locked but I do wonder what people think of each of these dudes.

I don't necessarily directly disagree with it, but I don't think it's 'feasible', so to say. A bunch of people were already circumventing previous restrictions on that through various custom successors or what have you, so the rules on that were never really there. So they've just dispensed with the formalities that weren't worth trying to enforce, in my opinion.

 

I suspect that may have been a lot of what drove GWs opinions here on both that and how detachments work. With how things are now, I think you're much more likely to see 'established' chapters painted by competitive players I think, as they still have the flexibility to pivot. Which I don't think is a bad idea, I'd certainly rather see more Flesh Tearers or Novamarines on those boards than generic chapter A that can't be pinned to one lineage, so they can follow whatever trend. Not bagging on them doing that, it's certainly pragmatic with how things cost and time invested in it, but it's probably for the better that they don't have to.

Edited October 20, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion