Unexpectedly, I may be playing again...

[Gillyfish]

To my considerable surprise, a couple of friends have recently got into 40k. Whilst my main interest/focus is on Titanicus and the upcoming Epic game, I have been asked if I can put forward a 1000 point army to play them.

 

From what I can tell, they have the following:

 

Tau:

A Riptide, a Stormsurge, 2 x Hammerheads (one with the Tau tank commander in it).

 

Tzeentch daemons:

2 x Lords of Change (perhaps one is the Fateweaver?), some blue horrors, a Soulgrinder, a Gaunt Summoner

 

I last played at the very beginning of 6th edition, so I am very much out of touch with how the new game works, so I have just focussed on picking units I like. I don't own any Primaris and I never got round to assembling Black Knights, fliers, etc. However, I do have access to a wealth of earlier units.

 

Here's the list, such as it is:

 

HQ:

 

Jump Pack Chaplain with bolt-pistol and crozius (Leader)

Terminator Librarian with Storm Bolter

 

Battleline:

 

1 x tactical squad. Sergeant with power fist, 1 x marine with lascannon, 1 x marine with plasma gun.

 

Other datasheets:

 

Deathwing terminator squad:

 

5 terminators, 1 x with lightning claws, 1 x with chainfist, 1 x with assault cannon. (Libby to attach to this squad and deep strike)

 

1 x assault squad with jump packs. Sergeant with power fist, 2 x marines with plasma pistols. (Chaplain to attach to this squad)

 

Land Speeder Tornado (assault cannon and heavy bolter)

 

Land Speeder Typhoon (multi-melta)

 

 

My main concern is that I have no idea how likely it is that the speeders will get in range and so whether I should swap them out for more infantry, a Whirlwind or something similar. The main point of the list is to move fast and hit hard, making the most of oaths of moment to focus on a unit at a time before redeploying. The tactical squad are there to guard any home objectives and provide a little fire support as required.

 

I really have no idea what I am doing with this edition, so some thoughts on alternative classic units are very welcome.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Glad to hear you getting back in the saddle!

 

A couple of things I can see being problematic against your opponents big nasties:

• You lack anti-tank weaponry. The multi-melta is, at best, a character killer now, as it can't even reliably damage a Rhino. I would suggest getting something with a bunch of lascannons, such as a predator or two. 
• The terminators, especially the shooty variant, are better off starting on the table. They are worth a lot of points, they're very tough (especially if you mix in the odd storm shield bearer), and the shooty component is not to be scoffed at. You may want to think about upping the size to 10 guys, making a command squad out of them, or both, and treat them as an anchor for your force, but they are not very mobile overall, so that might not fit your vision. Also, such a squad would be 495 of your 1000 points, so it's a considerable investment.
• There's also a question which kind of detachment you want to play. The Unforgiven detachment is the one that's fluffier, but its ability is (in my opinion) rather meh, but the access to the connected stratagems is nice. The Gladius task force is very good for mobility, however.

 

Keeping these points in mind, I'd suggest something like this:

- Terminator Librarian with Storm Bolter

- Jump Pack Chaplain with Plasma Pistol and Heavenfall Blade 

- Tactical Squad with Plas/Las; Power Fist & Plasma Pistol

- Assault Squad with 3 Plasma Pistols (2 normal, 1 Sergeant), Power Fist

- Predator Annihilator with 2 additional Lascannons, Hunter Killer Missile, Storm Bolter

- Deathwing Command Squad (for access to the Apothecary to make them even tougher), with Watcher in the Dark, 2 x Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield, 2 x Power Fist & Storm Bolter, 1 x Chain Fist & Storm Bolter, 1 x Assault Cannon & Power Fist, 1 x Cyclone Missile Launcher & Power Fist 

 

This gives you the aforementioned immovable brick, that can be surprisingly mobile advancing with +1 due to the champion (provided you use the Unforgiven task force with the Fire Discipline stratagem to give their weapons Assault). IF you lose models from this brick, you can fire back with Grim Retribution, and can revive with the apothecary. 

 

You will probably struggle against the Tau Hammerheads and Stormsurge, though, as they are absolutely beastly at the moment.

[Tacitus]

Additionally I'd point out that the Land Speeders are more than likely going to get phased our - they already did for the Codex Marines.  They'll go to legends and your group may be willing to play with them there.  Just something to keep in mind.  They were "replaced" by the new Storm Speeders.  Likewise with the Assault Squad which was replaced by Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs.  Which are basically Assault Squads with Primaris armor sculpts and no Eviscerators. 

 

+1 to wound from the Chaplain is sneaky good. 

 

I'd say first things first, go to the webiste, and get the rules.  You may also want to get the normal SM Codex - all the formations in that book can be used by your Dark Ange;ls.  The Dark Angels themselves currently have one formation and its kinda Meh.  (The FOC is gone no more HQ + 3 Troops + whatever - Formations are where your Stratagems come from as well as a special rule or two to themeatify your army.   The new SM Codex has 6 or so of them, one for each of the first foundings - UM and the Gladius, Salamanders and the Firestorm, White Scars and the Stormlance and so on.   So to start with pick one of those, then figure out which units synergize with the formation.   An Assault Squad led by a Chaplain would do well in the Stormlance which is kinda "meh", meanwhile your Terminators would live the Firestorm Assault Force - I'm trying to remember 6th ed terminology here - but in that force everyone can "run" which is now called advance, and still shoot - if your terminators end up within 12 inches when they shoot they get Rapid Fire to make extra shots, and +1 Strength to their shots, if they're within 6" when they shoot they get extra +1S shots from before AND  after a strategem costing 1CP (you get one per player turn automatically, and CAN get up to 1 more per Battle Round (both player turns) so 2 for sure, up to 3 per each of the 5 Battle Rounds consisting of one player turn each.   SM Captains also generally have an ability to cast (or recast which is big) a strat for free - normally each strat can only be used once, so I think most people consider the re-cast part the important half of their Rites Of Battle rule.   You can probably get the Dark Angel datasheets here: Warhammer 40000 downloads - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com) - but the Core Rules for free no longer appear to be available - search for Bell of Lost Souls whatever your preferred 40K News site for a review of the rules that should have most of the KEYWORDS and abilities like TORRENT and Rites of Battle available in the archives. 

 

I don't know how much you're looking to spend - but the starter set will have some stuff you may like.  Terminators are getting taller, they just released new Shootinators.  The starter set comes with a diminished set with Assault Cannon only, but they look pretty nice.  There's also a Terminator Captain to lead the Terminators and some - basically flamer marines few people like., but probably do better on smaller tables.  Of course if you're going to get a starter set, go to Amazon and get the Leviathan set which was the "pre-release" with even more models (like a new taller Terminator Libby and some Sternguard)  for less than GW is selling their top starter set with about half the models.   That's one of the things that's probably changed - People (probably mostly people who can buy from GW wholesale) buy extra sets and stuff then sell it on Ebay, either in parts or marked up once its out of print and such.  But GW made so many Leviathan they're not marked up.  They're cheap:  About 80% of what GW was selling them for Amazon.com: Warhammer 40,000: Leviathan : Toys & Games

 

Last thing:  If you remember Fleshbane and Armourbane, they're sort of back it's now Anti-X Y+  i.e. Anti-Infantry 4+  So if use that weapon on Infantry, any natural wound roll of 4+ is a wound, regardless of S vs T.   Devastators with Grav Guns are Anti-Vehicle.  Combi-Weapons are Antt-Infantry.  Many Tau Suits are vehicles and not infantry.  There is no Anti-Monster that I'm aware of. 

[Gillyfish]

Thank you both for the advice.

 

I don't know how serious these friends are about 40k, so I am not looking to spend much at this point. I have a lot of unassembled and unpainted stuff, including about 20-30 terminators so probably don't need leviathan at the moment (nice though the models are).

 

I never got round to assembling an annihilator variant of the Pred (I do have one waiting to be assembled though - there's a theme here), but I do have Land Raider if that would do as an alternative (although it is more expensive). I am guessing that, if meltas are no longer anti-tank, then bike squads and attack bikes also aren't an option.

 

I could put in a Devastator squad as an option and/or a lascannon Razorback (I wasn't sure if combat squads were still a thing for ten man tactical squads). A squad of sniper scouts with missile launcher is also an option.

 

I can expand the DW squad to ten men. I will need to check where I got to with my DW command squad conversions (I converted a squad before there was a command squad kit- I know I hadn't finished the banner, but I think the other models were completed).

 

Thanks for your help!

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Well, a Land Raider is pretty tough now, and it also has transport capacity in a pinch to protect survivors or ferry tacticals from A to B. You just gotta figure out what to drop :-)

Hope you have fun with your friends!

[Tacitus]

14 hours ago, Gillyfish said:

Thank you both for the advice.

 

I don't know how serious these friends are about 40k, so I am not looking to spend much at this point. I have a lot of unassembled and unpainted stuff, including about 20-30 terminators so probably don't need leviathan at the moment (nice though the models are).

 

I never got round to assembling an annihilator variant of the Pred (I do have one waiting to be assembled though - there's a theme here), but I do have Land Raider if that would do as an alternative (although it is more expensive). I am guessing that, if meltas are no longer anti-tank, then bike squads and attack bikes also aren't an option.

 

I could put in a Devastator squad as an option and/or a lascannon Razorback (I wasn't sure if combat squads were still a thing for ten man tactical squads). A squad of sniper scouts with missile launcher is also an option.

 

I can expand the DW squad to ten men. I will need to check where I got to with my DW command squad conversions (I converted a squad before there was a command squad kit- I know I hadn't finished the banner, but I think the other models were completed).

 

Thanks for your help!

The original land raider will put out some decent anti-tank shots.

 

A devastator squad with Lascannon or Grav Cannon will also - I think I even mentioned the Devs with Grav earlier.  Combat Squads are not still a thing, you can buy 5 or you can buy 10, and they stay 5 or 10.

 

Sniper Scouts are generally no longer a thing (went to Legends) into a merged combined arms scout squad I just looked at that is appealing.  10 guys, 1 sergeant with next to no upgrade options, 5-10 scouts, of which 1 per five can have a heavy, and 1 per five can have a sniper rifle.   I'd expect a new kit for this unit soon.  2 snipers and 2 missile launchers per 10 guys aint bad. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Great to see you back representing the First Brother Gilly!

I'm no help here, just happy to see such an esteemed Veteran refreshed.

[Gillyfish]

Thanks Stobz!

 

So the game happened last night (arranged last minute, so I didn't tweak the list as much as I had planned to).

 

He had:

 

2 x Hammerheads (eventually with burst cannon and Railguns - will explain that later)

Stormsurge

Riptide

Ethereal

Shadowsun

 

The latter two were each mounted in a Hammerhead.

 

I took:

 

Jump pack Chaplain with 10 man assault squad (2 x plasma pistols and a power fist)

5 x man Deathwing squad (assault cannon, 2 x chainfists) with attached terminator librarian

10 man tactical squad with lascannon and plasma gun, power fist

Land speeder Typhoon with multi-melta

5 x man Devastator squad with 4 x lascannon

 

We just played the basic mission from the rulebook with four objectives. This was his second game ever and my first game since early in 6th edition.

 

He won the roll to be attacker and won the roll for first turn. We didn't have a huge amount of terrain; some necromunda pipes and gantries, but enough to provide a little cover.

 

He spread his units across the board with a Hammerhead on the right flank with Stormsurge and the other Hammerhead accompanying the Riptide on the left.

 

My Deathwing set up in Deep Strike. My Devastators took up a central position with reasonable visibility (no terrain to stand on) and the tactical squad took up position next to them on the right, to advance on the nearest objective. My speeder was deployed in cover on the far right and between it and the tactical squad I placed the assault squad and chaplain, also behind cover.

 

Turn 1:

I won the roll for first turn and advanced aggressively. The tactical squad moved up to take the nearest objective and assault squad moved forward to potentially make a move on the objective closest to my opponent's right flank and/or threaten the Hammerhead or Stormsurge. The Speeder moved up to get a line of fire on the Hammerhead.

 

The Devastators, tactical squad and speeder all opened up on the right-hand Hammerhead, blowing it to pieces and leaving Shadowsun battle-shocked.

 

In the Tau turn Shadowsun passed her battle-shock test and moved forward to spot the assault squad for the Stormsurge. The left-hand units shuffled to draw a bead on the devastators.

 

Firing was eventful; combined, Shadowsun and the Stormsurge took out six assault marines, whilst the Riptide and remaining Hammerhead killed the Devastator squad. At this point, I realised my opponent was mis-reading the data cards and didn't realise that he didn't actually have all of the weapons listed. We decided to carry on anyway, but it would have been interesting to see how many more marines I might have had, had that error not have occurred!

 

Turn 2:

I declared assault doctrine and moved my assault marines close to Shadowsun for a charge. The terminators deployed by Deep Strike in front of the Stormsurge and the Speeder advanced to their flank to lend supporting fire.

 

The assault marines shot at Shadowsun but failed to cause any damage. The attacks on the Stormsurge were another matter and the librarian's addition of sustained fire resulted in some additional hits, included some mortal wounds from the assault cannon. The Stormsurge was reduced to eight wounds after shooting was over.

 

The charge against Shadowsun was brief and brutal with the assault squad not needing to call on the sergeant to dispatch her. The terminators failed to charge the Stormsurge. I attempted a re-roll, but, sadly, it still failed.

 

The Tau responded by opening fire with everything they could on the terminators. A single terminator fell to their combined firepower.

 

Turn 3:

The Assault marines closed the range towards the Stormsurge and the Speeder closed to within close melta range. The terminators whittled away at the Stormsurge before the multi-melta on the Speeder killed it. The Speeder used its redeployment to close the gap on the remaining Tau units.

 

My opponent switched his focus to the Assault marines, blasting away at them with everything and leaving only the Chaplain alive. He had still yet to claim any objectives whilst my tactical squad were happily camped on one.

 

Turn 4:

My terminators moved closer to the Hammerhead and Riptide, the Speeder moved up. The Chaplain moved into cover, claiming a second objective as he did so. A few tactical marines repositioned so the lascannon could see the Hammerhead.

 

Shooting was relatively underwhelming, taking four wounds from the Hammerhead, mainly thanks to the assault cannon and the storm bolters.

 

The Tau response was to back away into the corner of the board, further away from the objectives. This time the terminators were targeted and, due to some poor saves on my part, two more terminators fell. 

 

Turn 5:

The Speeder advanced along with the terminators and the Chaplain, who landed near a third objective. The Hammerhead was reduced below half wounds, but I couldn't land the necessary killing blow. In return the Tau killed the remaining terminators, leaving the librarian standing alone.

 

Turn 6:

Overwatch fire killed the speeder, but we decided to call the game at that point as it was getting late.

 

We think I won. Certainly my opponent felt (quite literally!) boxed into a corner and I had control of the battlefield. Whether points surviving would bear that out I am less sure. It's also not clear whether he should have killed as much as he did in the first turn and what impact more devastators and assault marines being alive would have had on the battle (one more lascannon shot over a couple of turns might have made quite a difference).

 

In terms of learning points, he would definitely target my speeder sooner and he intends to take some different, more diverse units now that he has realised that the Stormsurge does not have as many guns as he thought.

 

Overall, my plan of applying pressure from the start mostly worked. I need to look at the rules around movement again as it seems incredibly difficult to get into combat. More terrain would definitely have made a difference. I think a slightly different army composition might be worth trying, possibly sticking a small tactical squad in a lascannon Razorback and/or the tactical squad in a Land Raider, plus maybe a Vindicator; I think I would only take armour in large amounts, given the number of anti-tank weapons he had available. 

 

Overall, interesting, but trying to find all the different special rules for the different units was a huge pain and I am not sure how easy that would be to do in a larger battle.

 

[Tacitus]

Most of the special rules repeat, and could have been a USR.  I generally find it helpful to make up a USR name for those rules which makes them easier to remember for me. 

[Gillyfish]

That's a really good tip Tacitus, thank you. I do need to have a closer look at the rules, as I am sure we got a fair bit wrong, but it's interesting how much has changed over the editions. 

 

I was actually quite surprised that I took my whole turn before he took his and I honestly can't remember if that has been normal for 40k for a while now or not. It may just be a symptom of me playing games like Titanicus which don't work in that way.

[Xenith]

Sounds like a tight game, hope you both had fun with it! 

 

Remember the rapid insertion strat, you can bring your termies down at the end of your opponents turn, so they can move as normal in your own - game winning strat to guarantee charges.