Does your local GW allow instore gaming?

[Dark Shepherd]

Mine has been introductory and kids games only since Covid. Not sure if its just there being a new manager or wider GW policy (which Ive seen suggested by some youtubers)

 

IMO its a bad idea as it reduces direct sales and sales in general. Said GW used to do Tuesday and Thursday gamenights and they were usually busy

Edited October 24, 2023 by Dark Shepherd
spelling mistake

[sairence]

My local shop used to pre-pandemic I think, but not anymore. They don't really have the space for more than one table and apparently it didn't work too well in the past. I've  never played there myself though, we luckily have two LFGS in town that have more space and lots of terrain.

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

Mine seems to be running as usual with open game nights on fridays, pickup games on the weekend if tables are free. Was pretty busy when I walked in 3 months ago 

[Valkia the Bloody]

My local is pretty active, too, they have a busy weekly schedule and on sever second weekend of every months they have alternating 40k and AoS tournaments.

[Dark Shepherd]

26 minutes ago, Valkia the Bloody said:

My local is pretty active, too, they have a busy weekly schedule and on sever second weekend of every months they have alternating 40k and AoS tournaments.

That sounds good

Mine did Kill Team 1st ed tournaments and they were very popular.

 

Store size is relavent, in my case theres space for 3 or 4 full size tables, but the store being busy/active got as much random shoppers in as much as anything else

[Focslain]

The one near me has about enough table space for 2 full sized games. They tend to run smaller games if possible. We just finished a Combat patrol League and seem they are ramping up for an AoS league next. Generally it's pick up games or games that are scheduled via FB. We have an unofficial group for the store to show off stuff and schedule meet-ups outside the events they run, which are many. 

[Waaagh?]

So earlier this year I left working for GW as a store manager so here's my two cents. For the TLDR version it's a case of depending on the store, manager and foot traffic some do and some don't. 

 

Long version

 

officially the stance is supposed to be no gaming without purpose. So that includes things like campaigns (if space allows), lessons and so forth. None of this is exclusive to beginners (other than beginners sunday or similar) but should always be inclusive of beginners and regulars. 

 

unorganised pickup games are officially a no. 

 

Unofficially......It comes down to how much the manager polish the company flagpole and follow the rules to the letter

 

Many store managers (myself included) had an ethos of I'd rather space be used when nothing was planned. Sure I might have a campaign or set activity lined up at certain times in the week but otherwise if there was gaming space and someone wanted to use it then I was fine with that. Always liked for people to come into the store and see others enjoying the hobby. 

 

Space and store foot traffic also plays a big part in this. If you're in a busy city centre store you're going to be doing more introductory stuff and more lessons etc cutting down on the free space so depending on the size of the store you may have no choice in the matter of open gaming. 

 

Likewise some smaller town centre stores thrive of small communities who regularly come in and play and likewise support the store with the pay where you play ethos. These stores don't get enough new people walking in every day to constantly fill the space (and tills) and catering to the location is smart. 

 

The problem with GW is they feel every store should be the same and because of that the focus is on the stuff that the most profitable stores are doing which is often recruitment, lessons and short fun activities for all.......these stores also happen to be in big cites with lots of foot traffic and don't rely on regulars as much as a small town store would. 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Waaagh?

[Grotsmasha]

I'm fortunate enough to live by the Mt Gravatt Store here in OZ, which is a Championship Store, and they've got a double shop front, with the second shop a gaming room with 10-12 tables setup for regular use. I'm fairly certain they use the Leviathan Combat Patrols to run introductory games in the store itself too.

[ja1904]

Our store has gaming everyday. I would’ve never learned if it wasn’t for the store.

[Inquisitor lorr]

I haven’t gamed in years and it’s sad to hear that in store gaming isn’t a thing anymore I’m some stores.

 

Even when I stopped the hobby for a long time, I still regularly saw all the friends I made gaming every Thursday night at the local GW store. I was fortunate that that store was Derby with both Peachy, Duncan and a great team. It was constantly abuzz with games - I have no doubt that drove so many sales, so it’s a bit daft that GW don’t consistently support/stifle this. Derby was only a small store, but an extra table would be squeezed in on Thursdays and one was always kept free during store hours for intro games.
 

I’m equally lucky that now my ‘local’ is Warhammer World - I must make the most of it soon and get some games in! 

[Bung]

W

I live near 2 GW Stores and both wish there would be more gaming in store.

 

For one the problem is, parking space is extrem expensive in the city and there is an active club just outside the City Open every Weekend catering more to people with Jobs.

 

For the other one, the GW Store opened around 10 years after the independent Nerdstore build the Community. That store offers more gaming tables and does really work hard for the Community and not only for GW customers.

So most of the regulars bring the new guys to the independent store. That Store even has their own Discord Server to meet people and works together with the local Club.

[N1SB]

TL;DR - If you don't have already one, try starting a conversation about the Warhammer 40,000 Organised Play Pack at Warhammer Stores.

 

Fascinating sharing, thanks all.  Our local Warhammer Store allows in-store gaming.  In fact, the Manager actively promotes it.

 

He promotes it not just in words, but also in deeds.  He re-organised the tables and supplied terrain to have 3 x 1000 pt games; this is in addition to the 2 compulsory intro game tables for 40k and AoS.  On top of that, he's got the Organised Pack and started a 4th Tyrannic War Crusade Campaign from the new rulebook.

 

 

Pictured above are the Crusade Campaign Sheets and Strategem cards he thrust into my hands, because I tried to refuse them as not to take from the Store, and he's like "did you bring your carry case?  Good, take these, we have too many."  And he's advising me which Crusade upgrades to take as an impartial observer.

 

Our Warhammer Store Manager came from a marketing background and he found that, for our local meta, ongoing Campaigns are the best driver for sales.  Engagement always does, but rather than just customer interaction, ongoing Campaigns like 40k Crusades or Necromunda simply sell themselves.

 

That is really something to do with the local meta/crowd/customers.  It's possible that it's due to us being in East Asia where there's not much of a tabletop RPG culture like Dungeons & Dragons that this sort of thing completely captures that interest; a lot of the Crusade players did D&D in the States or the UK.

 

I went to the Warhammer Stores if my regular D&D group cancelled our regular Sunday sessions.  Used to be just the Warhammer Store Manager discussing the Horus Heresy; Sunday was family day, a slow day.  Now every Sunday, we got 3 tables, there's usually 8 players, 6 playing pick-up Crusade games, 2 standing by.

 

Nowadays I kinda want my D&D games to be cancelled so i can "sneak" off there to play 40k Crusade instead.  As for sales activity, one dude painted half a Salamanders army he bought just because he felt his Sororitas were underperforming in the Campaign.  Not something I'd advocate, but I was just impressed.

 

As for when this campaign ends, we're in East Asia, but he already scheduled it to end on the US's Thanksgiving...because he knows Black Friday is when GW releases some Boxed Game like a new Blood Bowl or like Legiones Imperialis (I can't keep track of that anymore), so he clearly knows what he's doing.

 

 

+++ No Gaming Without Purpose +++

 

 

Brother Waaagh's post enlightened me.  "No Gaming Without Purpose" is such clear guidance, while vague enough for Managers to bend the rules.

 

Here's a big picture view he and other ex-GW employees probably know better than us.  From GW's 2020 Annual Report, think of costs as point values:

 

 

This is a table of Games Workshop's yearly operating expenses, the costs of running the company.  I took it from 2020 because that's the last year they did this clear breakdown; since then, the clumped everything together.  "Retail", meaning Warhammer Stores, is more than 50% of GW's running costs.

 

If 50% of your army list is something...you want that unit(s) to always be doing something, have a target to shoot at least while capping an Objective or charging into one.  Whether there's 1 dude in the Warhammer Store or a dozen...GW has to pay its rent.  If you're GW, you WANT activity, to justify the costs.

 

That's Theoretical, here's the Practical

 

 

+++ Brother Shepherd, Something to Try Please +++

 

 

Based on what you described, you've got this new Warhammer Store Manager.  I think it's like he wants to prove himself...he just doesn't know how yet, a Catch-22 for a new hire.  So maybe get the ball rolling by asking him about the Organised Play Pack, as mentioned in Warhammer Community:

 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/01/warhammer-40000-organised-play-play-games-and-win-prizes-at-your-local-store/

 

I'm really curious what would happen.  Just going to play out a scenario here, starting with a really innocuous question...

 

"Hello there, I've been a regular customer for X years, but I don't know about this Organised Play Pack?  Do you know anything about this?"

 

He'll probably say he knows, he got briefed on it.  Then you ask him, "So what's holding you back from using this resource?"

 

Maybe he'll complain he just doesn't have time.  Whatever that hurdle is, if you could propose that if he gets the Organised Play Pack, you can save him time by organising, say, Tuesday and Thursday game nights FOR HIM, then I reckon you'll get in-store games AND swag.

 

Just an idea.  I think any new manager in any organisation is torn between wanting to show he can do something yet doesn't know how.  It's like, on your own terms, you're guiding him how to better serve you and other customers better.

Edited October 25, 2023 by N1SB

[Stitch5000]

16 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

IMO its a bad idea as it reduces direct sales and sales in general. Said GW used to do Tuesday and Thursday gamenights and they were usually busy

Bear in mind, given that GW now have statistics that relate to periods of time when gaming is allowed and when gaming is not, I think they are in a better position to answer that question than you are. 

Do you think they would do something that they practicably COULD do that would make MORE money, but then not?

 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

Back in the day (90s) we regularly played Garden Hammer. A large board supported by a table tennis frame ensured lots of freedom for mini movement. After the setup was done we marched to the local pizza shop and bragged what our units/characters would do to the opposition. Good times. Many years later I found myself playing a few times in a GW store doing intro games for N18 as I was on good terms with the manager. However I must say playing in the close confines of a GW store compared to Garden Hammer or House Hammer is a vastly different experience. Nowadays I wouldn´t play at all at GW. 

[Stitch5000]

13 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

Back in the day (90s) we regularly played Garden Hammer. A large board supported by a table tennis frame ensured lots of freedom for mini movement. After the setup was done we marched to the local pizza shop and bragged what our units/characters would do to the opposition. Good times. Many years later I found myself playing a few times in a GW store doing intro games for N18 as I was on good terms with the manager. However I must say playing in the close confines of a GW store compared to Garden Hammer or House Hammer is a vastly different experience. Nowadays I wouldn´t play at all at GW. 

Indeed... As much as I hate to admit it, I feel like the days of store staff running games, or indeed GW stores hosting games may well be entirely in the past... The same goes for groups of older people gathering to hang around and play games. The optics of such a thing don't mesh with the modern retail environment and given that stores are generally run by just one person, it's not really practical. 

I think back to the days when I was a kid hanging around all the time in GW and I dread to think of how irritating it must have been for the staff., 

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

A bunch of people in this very thread say otherwise but yea sure staff run games or hosted store games are a thing of the past 

[WrathOfTheLion]

At least in the States, there's gaming events that the store is supposed to be running. There was a Crusade event right before the 10E launch for example. That wasn't just one store, but every store across the country should have been doing it, as they were competing with each other on certain metrics.

 

There's like a schedule of Crusade, Path to Glory, tournament events (like they did for KT, 40k, etc. last year) that the stores are supposed to be organizing.

Edited October 25, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Dark Legionnare]

The one here in CT (New England, USA) seems to regularly have decent-sized looking games!

I made a room in my house into a gameroom so all our 40k group of friends and I 99% game there, but I drive by a couple times a year and it always looks like the multiple tables are well used on weekends.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Dark Shepherd]

Waghh might be able to confirm this but I thought starter sets were the main/predominat metric GW use to measure the sucess of a store not raw sales?

 

I did bring it up with the new manager a couple of times and he said theres plenty of other places to play now, ye olde FLGS 200 yards away and a new FLGS in the burbs

 

Thing is GW make twice as much profit on anything I buy in a GW instead of a FLGS.  They also make zero if I buy Army Painter etc. The FLGS are also not going to stop me from using 3rd party minis. If Im in the GW less the ship to store option is a lot less worth it compared to buying from Wayland Games wtc online

 

IMO keeping the local gaming community engaged is good for their business. A busy store on Thursday nights when people are passing by on a night out is good advertising for the hobby.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Dark Shepherd

[phandaal]

Pretty sure our local GW stores do in-store gaming and low-point escalation leagues. The friendly local game stores have a ton of tables though so GW is not the main place to play for most people in my area.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

No, but it only has room for one table. It is also unreliable in terms of when it is actually open. The downside to one man stores I suppose. It's been so unreliable that it has actually pushed me from buying in store to buying from third parties. 

[Brother Kraskor]

20 hours ago, Waaagh? said:

officially the stance is supposed to be no gaming without purpose.

 

Even that sentence alone makes me feel sad. Gaming is its own purpose! 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Brother Kraskor

[Waaagh?]

3 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

Waghh might be able to confirm this but I thought starter sets were the main/predominat metric GW use to measure the sucess of a store not raw sales?

 

I did bring it up with the new manager a couple of times and he said theres plenty of other places to play now, ye olde FLGS 200 yards away and a new FLGS in the burbs

 

Thing is GW make twice as much profit on anything I buy in a GW instead of a FLGS.  They also make zero if I buy Army Painter etc. The FLGS are also not going to stop me from using 3rd party minis. If Im in the GW less the ship to store option is a lot less worth it compared to buying from Wayland Games wtc online

 

IMO keeping the local gaming community engaged is good for their business. A busy store on Thursday nights when people are passing by on a night out is good advertising for the hobby.

 

 

It used to be that a percentage of your sales needed to be "core products" so basically stuff from the starter section. They scrapped that 4 years ago. My stance was every product is a starter product. If you really really want to get into the hobby with Daemons and you're being pushed towards a starter set which doesn't have daemons then that's not good for the beginner or the manager in retaining them. Yes the starter models are easier to build but we where there to teach you regardless of whatever models you started with. 

 

On the financial targeting as of when I left.

 

The main focus is growth, transaction count and atv. 

 

You also target on intros and battle honours books given out but really the main focus is the money and I've never known a manager who was in growth on the 3 financial targets get :cuss: if his recruitment numbers where not in growth.......as much as the company might pretend, if the shops in growth well that's all that really matters.

[Lord_Ikka]

For me, my local GW store is about 15 minutes away and I believe allows open gaming. I know they run new player games/gaming days and have seen several of their campaigns advertised. The store manager seems like a nice guy, but I've only been there a few times in the last couple of years and that is either to pick up a store anniversary mini, or to go browse because I'm in the area already- its in a shopping center that my wife goes to every few months. I have never gamed there, nor would I, even though I do see people playing games/painting when I've been in.

 

My problem is that it is a small location (much like every other GW store I've seen) that only has a couple of tables. In my town there are two local gaming stores with much more space, and in a 40-minute drive there is another 3-4 FLGS that I can play at that are all bigger and more spacious than the GW one. They all also usually have more stock than the GW store (my main store carries about 200% of the GW store's stock) and offer other amenities like drinks/snacks (or in the case of 2 of them, full coffee/smoothie bars). Why would I go to a GW store if I can get more stuff at a local store that has more room? 

[Xenith]

Most stores I know still have thursday night gaming, or any day gaming in the Manchester store as they have an abundance of tables. My local store is small and one man, and doesn't offer games, though I think this is on him rather than the company in general - his predecessor until 2 years ago ran games regularly. Before that, my old store was even smaller than this and used to have 4 staff and 3 full tables for gaming every thursday night. Saturdays were mega games and would have 4 staff with about 30 kids frothing to play games and spend their pocket money, myself included. 

 

They've tried cutting their way to growth, and seen that it doesn't work, and that spending for growth actually does work. I wonder when this mindset will trickle down to retail stores and make them gaming spaces again.