Best Codex Leader for Terminators?

[Dracos]

 As they say the labels is on the tin. I really have appreciated the ideals about the Bladeguard leader, so I thought I would request the sharing of your thoughts for Terminators. 
 

I’m waffling between a leader that makes them more durable like Lysander or one that makes them more deadly like the Chaplain. The Captains reroll to charge us nice but I assume Command rerolls are still a thing.  If I’m missing out on a good option please throw that idea my way. 
 

Thanks Draco’s

[Paladin777]

I'm a fan of the Librarian for shooty terminators as Sustained 1 for all attacks is pretty cool, especially on chainfist models. He also adds some good shooting and reasonably decent melee in his own right as well. 
 

The psychic hood is a nice little ribbon too in the event that it comes up.
 

He'd be fantastic on hammernators too (adding 33% output), though the chaplain might be better if you're planning on going after hard targets. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Paladin777

[Galron]

Librarian has my vote unless you play Dark Angels where a Strike Leader gets it.

[Wind Whistler]

Captain + Ancient is good for just getting the maximum number of Terminator bodies into one squad.

[Sir Clausel]

Black templars Chaplain with tannhausers bones makes them pretty damn tanky(provided you take uphold vow). 

With the +1 to wound and the ability to give them either sustained hits or lethal hits in cc there is also possibility for lots of damage

[Minsc]

It's a boring answer, but I would say "it depends" - especially what detachment* they're in matters a great deal, since that changes both rules, stratagems, enhancements and potential named characters that can join them. Your local meta** can also dictate if something is better or worse.

*I'll take Firestorm for as an example (because as a Salamanders-player, it's the detachment I'm most familiar with), where the TA Chaplain is more or less pointless. 
Why? Because the TA Captain can give his squad +1 to wound "for free" anyway, just like the Chaplain - so you're trading the Chaplains FNP against MW (which became waaay less appealing after the change to Dev. Wounds) for re-roll charge, a better statline and the option to use other Strats for free should you really need to, i.e. "you're not in combat, here's a free Armour of Contempt."

 

**I.e. if you play in a local meta where there's a lot of psychic-heavy armies like Tyranids and Thousand Sons running around, the TA Librarian suddenly becomes way more appealing than if you're playing in a meta where there aren't many psychic-heavy armies. My main opponent is a Tyranidplayer who loves Zoanthropes and Neurotyrants, and he actively avoids targeting my Librarian-led Terminators with his Zoanthropes even if they normaly are perfect for killing Terminators. 
I also like the TA Librarian in regular Terminators since Sustained Hits(1) is nice to have both at ranged and in melee. 

So for me in a Firestorm Detachment, I'd go:
Assault Terminators: Captain > Librarian > Chaplain.
Regular Terminators: Librarian/Captain > Chaplain.
 

[Paladin777]

The fact that my TA librarian might be my best paint job has absolutely nothing to do with my decision either. Honest! XD

Edited October 27, 2023 by Paladin777

[Dracos]

17 hours ago, Sir Clausel said:

Black templars Chaplain with tannhausers bones makes them pretty damn tanky(provided you take uphold vow). 

With the +1 to wound and the ability to give them either sustained hits or lethal hits in cc there is also possibility for lots of damage

I love the Templars and lord knows they have great rules, I am Oathsworn never to use Divergent marines with my DIY Chapter to chase meta.  

[Dracos]

16 hours ago, Minsc said:

It's a boring answer, but I would say "it depends" - especially what detachment* they're in matters a great deal, since that changes both rules, stratagems, enhancements and potential named characters that can join them. Your local meta** can also dictate if something is better or worse.

*I'll take Firestorm for as an example (because as a Salamanders-player, it's the detachment I'm most familiar with), where the TA Chaplain is more or less pointless. 
Why? Because the TA Captain can give his squad +1 to wound "for free" anyway, just like the Chaplain - so you're trading the Chaplains FNP against MW (which became waaay less appealing after the change to Dev. Wounds) for re-roll charge, a better statline and the option to use other Strats for free should you really need to, i.e. "you're not in combat, here's a free Armour of Contempt."

 

**I.e. if you play in a local meta where there's a lot of psychic-heavy armies like Tyranids and Thousand Sons running around, the TA Librarian suddenly becomes way more appealing than if you're playing in a meta where there aren't many psychic-heavy armies. My main opponent is a Tyranidplayer who loves Zoanthropes and Neurotyrants, and he actively avoids targeting my Librarian-led Terminators with his Zoanthropes even if they normaly are perfect for killing Terminators. 
I also like the TA Librarian in regular Terminators since Sustained Hits(1) is nice to have both at ranged and in melee. 

So for me in a Firestorm Detachment, I'd go:
Assault Terminators: Captain > Librarian > Chaplain.
Regular Terminators: Librarian/Captain > Chaplain.
 

Context? Yeah kind of an important point I left out. 
 

I have a Raven Guard mind set but like hitting with big chonky infantry. So I’m very focused on building my list to work with Vanguard and occasionally Gladius with a side eye on Firestorm. 
 

I’m extremely disappointed with how many of the detachments require vehicles or have Battle Stratagems that are situationally useful. I was really big on using multiple Captains for the free stratagem until they changed the rule on us. Personally I think that that had as huge effect on Marines as changing Oath. I think it’s possible to get good mileage out of Firestorm a bit more from Gladius but Vanguard is where my true play style lies. 
 

As far as meta … I like to develop an all comers list with the idea of playing in local RTTs couple times a year 

 

 

 

 

[Tacitus]

On 10/26/2023 at 6:56 AM, Dracos said:

I was really big on using multiple Captains for the free stratagem until they changed the rule on us.

What change?  I must have missed it?

[Sir Clausel]

When a rule does anything to a strategems cost and doesnt specify which strategem it can only effect Battle Tactics. 

So that means a soace marine captain can only make a strategem free if its a Battle tactic

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, Sir Clausel said:

When a rule does anything to a strategems cost and doesnt specify which strategem it can only effect Battle Tactics. 

So that means a soace marine captain can only make a strategem free if its a Battle tactic

Wow that is an ugly and obvious bandaid the slapped on there. 

[Paladin777]

I really don't think it affects us all that much. Functionally, it only limits the strategems that we would be able to double up. In my (admittedly slightly limited) experience, you'll end up using a Battle Tactic strategem on a unit led by a captain pretty much every turn, so you'll still be saving the same amount of CP with a captain anyway. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Paladin777

[Karhedron]

On 10/26/2023 at 2:56 PM, Dracos said:

I was really big on using multiple Captains for the free stratagem until they changed the rule on us.

 

I feel that multiple Captains offered diminishing returns, even before the change to Stratagems. Rites of Battle is once per Battle Round, regardless of how many Captains you have in play with the rule.

[Paladin777]

I don't mind two for more options. That said, having a jump captain bump my VVets from S5 toS6 on the charge makes them much more threatening to heavier infantry, even if I don't use a strat!

Edited October 28, 2023 by Paladin777

[Karhedron]

37 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

I don't mind two for more options. That said, having a jump captain bump my VVets from S5 toS6 on the charge makes them much more threatening to heavier infantry, even if I don't use a strat!

 

True, although if I already had a Captain elsewhere, I think I would prefer a Jump Chaplain as +1 to Wound all the time is a lot stronger than +1S on the charge.

[Paladin777]

Depends on the detachment. If I'm going gladius I'd prefer the captain for both (free Honor the Chapter). For other detachments that's certainly a good point. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Paladin777

[Dracos]

Just want to say thanks. Lots of good ideas. 
 

I’m keeping all my non-Leader units the same. Well the same as soon as new Scout box comes out. I’ve come down with two options for a set of characters

 

At the heart of the list in group A is the Judiciar. In group B is a Lieutenant. Each of which would have Blade Driven Deep. 

 

The Combi-Lieutenant is in both A and B. In B he has Shadow War Veteran. 

 

This leaves the Terminators either being led by [not] Lysander in Group A or a Chaplain in group B

 

Group A

 - [not] Lysander

 - Judiciar BDD

 - Combi-Lieutenant

 

Group B

 - Terminator Chaplain

 - Lieutenant BDD

 - Combi-Lieutenant VSW

 

How’s that for context lol. Leaning A but the Chappt and especially the Shadow War Veteran has spice.

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Dracos

[CCE1981]

Don’t forget that you have two lieutenant options if you go either Wolves or Dark Angels.  Terminators would be good in almost any detachment.

 

Bonus movement in Firestorm, and Stormlance, and to a lesser extent Gladius.  Deployment option in Vanguard.

 

Various damage bonuses throughout, some resiliency bonuses.  The best overall enhancements are probably in 1st Company Task force.