WARNING: Elephant Toys 1/6 Death Korps action figures are unlicensed, yet expensive

[N1SB]

UPDATE - what I thought was a fan-made custom action figure, or a mock-up or proof-of concept, seems to be an unlicensed product.  Thanks to Brother Domhnall below.

 

This has been floating around in Chinese Warhammer channels, don't know what's up.  I came across more pictures depicting this, but I'll let this speak for itself for now:

 

 

It's dodgy how it's labeled "Hammer of War" and merely "Death Korps", like it's a knock-off.  Company is Elephant Toys and it's not a great search term; all I get are these plushies.  Will continue looking in my spare time, just showing what I got now.  Maybe they're in talks with GW for actual official licensing, dunno anything for now.

 

UPDATE - we now know they are actually being sold as is, an unlicensed product.  Brother Domhnall did the due diligence below.

Edited November 11, 2023 by N1SB

[Urauloth]

No shovel? Knock-off. 

[Domhnall]

From it's branding, and the fact it's not been mentioned by them, I'm going with this is not a GW endorsed product!

 

Anyway, for those interested, there are more pictures here:
https://www.collectorfreaks.com/threads/1-6-elephant-toys-ele9001-hammer-of-war-death-korps-warhammer-40k.249880/

 

Apparently pre-order available here: 
https://onesixthkit.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=4917

 

But please note, that's not $35 for the figure... 

"This link for Non-Refundable Deposit payment $35, total price is $185 and balance $150 will be charged once it is released"

[Kastor Krieg]

Yeah, that's scummy as all get out. That's a knock-off product that uses GW's IP, trademarks, copyright and logotypes illegally.

There's no way a legit licensee would be allowed to call it "Hammer of War".
 

[Special Officer Doofy]

Someone should notify the Chinese government that a Chinese company is committing theft of intellectual property! This is absurb and unheard of.

[Brother_Angelus]

$185 for a 1/16 knock off was going to give me a heart attack.

 

It's 1/6, a pretty standard scale and price point when you look at similar unlicensed companies like MToys or SooSooToys.

[DuskRaider]

Yeah, knock off sixth scale figures are pretty common and companies like SooSoo and Toys Era are actually pretty good as far as quality. 
 

I’m surprised it took this long for a company to make a 40K 1/6 figure, knockoff or otherwise. I do remember a while back that a company was supposed to released an officially licensed Cadian Commisar but I don’t think anything ever came of it. 
 

Say what you want, this looks awesome and I’m getting one e-tool or not. 

[Brother_Angelus]

8 hours ago, DuskRaider said:

I’m surprised it took this long for a company to make a 40K 1/6 figure, knockoff or otherwise. I do remember a while back that a company was supposed to released an officially licensed Cadian Commisar but I don’t think anything ever came of it. 

It was an officer, and Green Wolf Studios did actually release it eventually, after the usual Kickstarter muck around.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Brother_Angelus

[DuskRaider]

7 hours ago, Brother_Angelus said:

It was an officer, and Green Wolf Studios did actually release it eventually, after the usual Kickstarter muck around.

There it is! Sounds like only 400 made from what I’ve read. Crazy. 

[MithrilForge]

"Made In China" ...might as well say, we're copying your stuff and there's not a damn thing you can do about it...  

 

M 

[Pacific81]

It's probably made in the same factory as the licensed stuff, that seems to be how a lot of these things work. And how they can turn out to be relatively high quality.

 

The concept itself is pretty generic, of a WW1 soldier in a gas mask, but the use of the GW-specific terms and iconography is pretty egregious.

[Evil Eye]

Eh, not a 1/6 collector but it does look cool, and I don't see how this is any worse than fanmade/unlicensed minis.

[Kastor Krieg]

54 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

how this is any worse than fanmade

Seriously?

[Evil Eye]

23 hours ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Seriously?

 Plenty of people make money off of selling their sculpts based on 40K, either via physical miniatures or 3D print files. At the end of the day, it's the same thing- these people have made a derivative product that they've sold for money without the express permission of GW. As far as GW are concerned, if you're buying something that doesn't give them profits then they're not happy, regardless of what that something is. They'd stop you buying pre-owned official minis if they could get away with it.

Realistically this is no "worse" than something like Ravaged Star. Both are piggybacking off the popularity of 40K to sell their wares, just as 40K piggybacked off the popularity of countless sci-fi properties. The difference being (aside from this being an action figure as opposed to miniatures) that this actually looks like it belongs in the 40K universe.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Tyriks

[Kastor Krieg]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

 Plenty of people make money off of selling their sculpts based on 40K, either via physical miniatures or 3D print files. At the end of the day, it's the same thing- these people have made a derivative product that they've sold for money without the express permission of GW. As far as GW are concerned, if you're buying something that doesn't give them profits then they're not happy, regardless of what that something is. They'd stop you buying pre-owned official minis if they could get away with it.

Realistically this is no "worse" than something like Ravaged Star. Both are piggybacking off the popularity of 40K to sell their wares, just as 40K piggybacked off the popularity of countless sci-fi properties. The difference being (aside from this being an action figure as opposed to miniatures) that this actually looks like it belongs in the 40K universe.

Yeah, a fanmade lookalike sorta-but-not-the exact thing that sells a dozen copies off Etsy is "just as bad" as a Chinese mass-produced carbon copy of exact GW IP, sculpt and trademarks.

Right.

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

From a business point of view? yes they are.

 

 

[Evil Eye]

41 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Yeah, a fanmade lookalike sorta-but-not-the exact thing that sells a dozen copies off Etsy is "just as bad" as a Chinese mass-produced carbon copy of exact GW IP, sculpt and trademarks.

Right.

To GW? Yes it is. In both cases (which are original sculpts not using any existing GW tooling- this isn't like a recast where a mini is being reproduced 1:1) you have a product being sold that uses the popularity of GW's IP to sell. This toy's appeal is obvious- it's an unlicensed Krieger. Ravaged Star is literally just serial-numbers-filed-off 40K, and would not be getting the exposure it is if it weren't for the "Tired of 40K? Try this instead!" angle. I'd argue Ravaged Star is arguably a bigger threat to GW in that it's encroaching directly on their territory (tabletop games) whereas GW do not make 1:6 action figures.

 

Personally I don't care either way; GW needs more competition and IP law is an absolute joke. But if you're going to take GW's corner in this fight, you have to commit to it.

[Kastor Krieg]

No, a fan home printing "legally distinct" minis for Etsy and a Chinese mass production of 100% truthful copy of GW designs are not the same thing or have the same impact.

[DuskRaider]

Here’s the thing: where’s GW’s product in 1/6 scale whose sales are being cut by this? There isn’t any. At all. I don’t count the Green Wolf Cadian, it’s years out of print now and made in extremely limited quantities to the point that it’s inconsequential. 
 

I’ve seen independent folks offering to create 1/6 scale Astartes for commission as well (not lately, unfortunately). Are they infringing on the trademark? Technically yes, but they’re not taking profits out of GW’s pockets since there’s no competing products to leech off. 
 

Until Games Workshop decides to jump into the high quality sixth scale market… and I really wish they would, especially if they could team up with Hot Toys or inArt… this isn’t hurting their bottom line. 

[Orion]

2 hours ago, DuskRaider said:

Here’s the thing: where’s GW’s product in 1/6 scale whose sales are being cut by this? There isn’t any. At all. I don’t count the Green Wolf Cadian, it’s years out of print now and made in extremely limited quantities to the point that it’s inconsequential. 
 

I’ve seen independent folks offering to create 1/6 scale Astartes for commission as well (not lately, unfortunately). Are they infringing on the trademark? Technically yes, but they’re not taking profits out of GW’s pockets since there’s no competing products to leech off. 
 

Until Games Workshop decides to jump into the high quality sixth scale market… and I really wish they would, especially if they could team up with Hot Toys or inArt… this isn’t hurting their bottom line. 

That's oversimplifying things.
There's totally an argument for people having a limited recreational budget but liking Warhammer or Krieg specifically.

The competing product is arguably licenced Joytoy and Warhammer miniatures. 
 

Heck, the whole limited spending budget and not to unnecessarily cannibalise on it even comes into how companies justify their own product lines.

[Evil Eye]

15 hours ago, Kastor Krieg said:

No, a fan home printing "legally distinct" minis for Etsy and a Chinese mass production of 100% truthful copy of GW designs are not the same thing or have the same impact.

I mean, Ravaged Star has actual mass-produced pre-assembled PVC minis courtesy of a hugely successful kickstarter, hardly a home-printing job. If this isn't OK then neither is Ravaged Star.

 

And again, GW does not sell 1:6 action figures of Kriegers or otherwise; the actual physical effort of sculpting and designing the figure is 100% their work. And heck, as much as I like them the Death Korps are just French WW1 "bluecoats" with different headgear and a lasgun- hardly a totally original creation. Unless you're suggesting historical mini manufacturers should seek permission from the descendants of Krupp or Rheinmetall to make minis of the Panzer II?

[Tyriks]

=][=

This thread is for discussing the actual figures, not everyone's take on IP law. Keep discussion appropriate to the topic or we will need to close this.

=][=

[N1SB]

Funny story just happened now, I'm only going to talk about the process.  This is from a pure "know where your food comes from" mindset.

 

Merely curious of how something like this could come to be, I sent messages to those-who-know out via an App, casual-like "how much does this cost to make?"  So this is a knock-off...but this is one of those times when I'm reminded I'm totally in the Evil Empire, because while you discussed ethics, i was thinking expenses, "$35+$150 is really expensive for a knock-off, it's gotta be cheaper than THIS."

 

One vendor/friend immediately messages back, "Wait."  Worked with this guy, helped him out once or twice in an ethical dare I say even virtuous manner, as I needed custom marketing premiums (a.k.a. swag), he needed to make payroll, I put in a single big order instead of several piecemeal deals.  Just cash flow, saved his company.

 

It's Saturday here in Hong Kong.  When he wrote, "Wait," I thought he meant he'll get back to me in the office end-of-day Monday.

 

Instead, he calls me back in like 10 minutes, after his breakfast, "$10 for a normal 1/6, probably $20 for this much detail, minimum order 1,000."

 

"Whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm just curious," I reply, this is all in Chinese, I'm translating and converting currency for y'all.  "Also, the jacket is 'leather'."

 

"Oh, leather's a specialty custom thing, that's gonna cost ya," he immediately comes back, like he's clearly done this sort of thing before, it's normal to him.  He used some technical term like "synthetic grade leather", the Chinese word for "leather" is the same as "skin", it might be "pleather", I dunno (but I'm learning a lot now).  "It'll cost AT LEAST $30, I'll negotiate for you, but expect around $25*.  Send me the CAD (and a term I don't know, it's like a tailor's blueprint kit file, for the jacket bit)."

 

(This price is probably very dependent on the material they use for the jacket, so could honestly vary, this dude uses like 1 type.)

 

"No, no, no, thanks a lot for the information, I'm just curious, this is somebody else, I'm not planning to make this."

 

"Ok np when you OR YOUR FRIEND make up your mind, send me the CAD file, $25 each, minimum order 1,000 bai bai."

 

I wanted to share how matter-of-fact this was, and it's easier to order than a set menu from a fast food restaurant.  I'm ashamed I never knew this before, it's like the 1st time I used Agrax Earthshade, when I felt like "this is so useful, why did no one tell me this before."  But I left this exercise with 3 key takeaways:

 

- it's proof this dude is using the preorder $35 to order those units from China, then pocketing $150 himself

- and all it takes is a 5 minute phone call to This-Guy-I-Know, Nothing-Dodgy-About-It, Fell-Off-A-Truck-I-Swear

- ...and apparently I could do this even cheaper with a CAD, $25 each, minimum order 1,000, ok np bai bai

 

NOBODY SEND ME A CAD FILE, I'm not interested in going into this business, but I wanted to share how a cow becomes McDonald's burger...it's that fast.

 

Btw, so you noticed, it's not a Chinese company making $185 ea.  It's making $35 per unit.  Some dude like me that knows Warhammer is making $150 a pop.

Edited November 11, 2023 by N1SB

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

@N1SB You are a treasure

[Slips]

2 hours ago, N1SB said:

Spoiler

Funny story just happened now, I'm only going to talk about the process.  This is from a pure "know where your food comes from" mindset.

 

Merely curious of how something like this could come to be, I sent messages to those-who-know out via an App, casual-like "how much does this cost to make?"  So this is a knock-off...but this is one of those times when I'm reminded I'm totally in the Evil Empire, because while you discussed ethics, i was thinking expenses, "$35+$150 is really expensive for a knock-off, it's gotta be cheaper than THIS."

 

One vendor/friend immediately messages back, "Wait."  Worked with this guy, helped him out once or twice in an ethical dare I say even virtuous manner, as I needed custom marketing premiums (a.k.a. swag), he needed to make payroll, I put in a single big order instead of several piecemeal deals.  Just cash flow, saved his company.

 

It's Saturday here in Hong Kong.  When he wrote, "Wait," I thought he meant he'll get back to me in the office end-of-day Monday.

 

Instead, he calls me back in like 10 minutes, after his breakfast, "$10 for a normal 1/6, probably $20 for this much detail, minimum order 1,000."

 

"Whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm just curious," I reply, this is all in Chinese, I'm translating and converting currency for y'all.  "Also, the jacket is 'leather'."

 

"Oh, leather's a specialty custom thing, that's gonna cost ya," he immediately comes back, like he's clearly done this sort of thing before, it's normal to him.  He used some technical term like "synthetic grade leather", the Chinese word for "leather" is the same as "skin", it might be "pleather", I dunno (but I'm learning a lot now).  "It'll cost AT LEAST $30, I'll negotiate for you, but expect around $25*.  Send me the CAD (and a term I don't know, it's like a tailor's blueprint kit file, for the jacket bit)."

 

(This price is probably very dependent on the material they use for the jacket, so could honestly vary, this dude uses like 1 type.)

 

"No, no, no, thanks a lot for the information, I'm just curious, this is somebody else, I'm not planning to make this."

 

"Ok np when you OR YOUR FRIEND make up your mind, send me the CAD file, $25 each, minimum order 1,000 bai bai."

 

I wanted to share how matter-of-fact this was, and it's easier to order than a set menu from a fast food restaurant.  I'm ashamed I never knew this before, it's like the 1st time I used Agrax Earthshade, when I felt like "this is so useful, why did no one tell me this before."  But I left this exercise with 3 key takeaways:

 

- it's proof this dude is using the preorder $35 to order those units from China, then pocketing $150 himself

- and all it takes is a 5 minute phone call to This-Guy-I-Know, Nothing-Dodgy-About-It, Fell-Off-A-Truck-I-Swear

- ...and apparently I could do this even cheaper with a CAD, $25 each, minimum order 1,000, ok np bai bai

 

NOBODY SEND ME A CAD FILE, I'm not interested in going into this business, but I wanted to share how a cow becomes McDonald's burger...it's that fast.

 

Btw, so you noticed, it's not a Chinese company making $185 ea.  It's making $35 per unit.  Some dude like me that knows Warhammer is making $150 a pop.

 

I have to ask though: your guy mentioned a minimum order of 1k but for quite a few of the 1/6th and 1/4th scale unlicensed statues I see being produced in China, they usually have edition sizes of 188, 288 or something under ~300 for the most part.

And if this guardsman falls into that Edition Size range, Im assuming that the per-unit cost would not be as low as your guy presented and the cost difference between ordering ~200-300 and 1000 should be rather significant.

For most Museum-style posed statues in 1/6th scale that I know of - whether licensed or not - they usually average ~250-330$ (and even reaching 4-500$ sometimes) before shipping so this being poseable to some extent as well as having non-sculpted elements (such as the coat) is probably where the cost is reduced since there isnt as much labor involved in cleaning up the sculpts as well as assembly and as much painting work required.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Slips