WARNING: Elephant Toys 1/6 Death Korps action figures are unlicensed, yet expensive

[N1SB]

7 hours ago, Mechanicus Tech-Support said:

@N1SB You are a treasure

 

My fellow Frater Tech Magos, I deserve no such praise, but the vendor is a real gem.  He knew this info like we know a Marine statline.

 

But we're exhibiting prime enginseer mindset here.  While a normal genuine human asks "why", our brain immediately thinks "how" and "how much".

 

The epiphanic thing here is, the guy had no idea what this is, nor did he care what it is.  All he wanted to know is how many and where's that CAD file.

 

5 hours ago, Slips said:

I have to ask though: your guy mentioned a minimum order of 1k but for quite a few of the 1/6th and 1/4th scale unlicensed statues I see being produced in China, they usually have edition sizes of 188, 288 or something under ~300 for the most part.

And if this guardsman falls into that Edition Size range, Im assuming that the per-unit cost would not be as low as your guy presented and the cost difference between ordering ~200-300 and 1000 should be rather significant.

For most Museum-style posed statues in 1/6th scale that I know of - whether licensed or not - they usually average ~250-330$ (and even reaching 4-500$ sometimes) before shipping so this being poseable to some extent as well as having non-sculpted elements (such as the coat) is probably where the cost is reduced since there isnt as much labor involved in cleaning up the sculpts as well as assembly and as much painting work required.

 

Good thing you mentioned this, because my dealings with this dude is in '000s of units.  Like I'd order 2,000 novelty pens with our product logo.  The price he quoted me would definitely have assumed that bulk order.  If it was less, probably higher price per unit, we'd just negotiate.

 

(And you already know why.  Whether it's 1 or 1000, there's a certain amount of "fixed cost" of the guy has, the 1st Space Marine's the hardest 1 to paint.)

 

I dunno much about collectibles.  The Joytoy stuff looks cool to me, they're like made next door, but I have something, let me find it and show you.

 

 

+++ BROTHER SLIPS REMINDED ME I HAD A SAMPLE +++

 

 

Aha, found it/them, INB4 this looks rubbish, I know, I know!  I share this just to provide an actual reference of how these custom figures get "made":

 

 

Brother Slips's post about museum-styled poses reminded me I had these kinda recent history-themed samples.  I plum forgot, they were not on my mind when I started asking around, so this is like a completely separate set of data points.  Thanks for reminding me.

 

So here is a custom action figure of one of Hong Kong's Chief Executives; not talking politics, just manufacturing process.  My Ork Mekpriezt of da Orkdeptuz Mekanicuz just to show it's mine...as if all the Warhammer and Vallejo paraphernalia in the back isn't a dead giveaway.

 

The face is actually good, just a shoddy photo, but it's a plastic toy.  No fancy synthetic leather jacket, but has a folding chair (yes, like a Jackie Chan film), a ledger, pen, AND he spouts famous lines from his campaign with one of them sound modules.  A little more than 7 inches, so 1/10th scale.

 

I never thought about it before, but it's like my vendor described basically this sort of thing.  It's more standard, easier than I realised.

 

My intern's brother "made" these...more likely designed the CAD file, then sent it to someone in China, like my vendor would broker.  From memory, she said her brother made 1,000 units.  This guy has been out of office, so this was from way back in 40k 7th ed or so, iirc.

 

Why so many boxes?  Because I didn't buy just 1, I bought 3, the guy was trying to get rid of them and/or was humouring me.

 

How much did these cost to buy?  I paid US$20 for each.  I was showing charity to my intern's brother, I bought 3 at the end of a weekend convention, I'd've just given them a HK$500 bill (around US$60) to help them clear inventory (like you know when exhibitors got to pack up, prices drop.)

 

(Because there was no way I'd have spent much more than 10 Tactical Space Marines for this ridiculous novelty toy.)

 

Their little exhibition booth normally costs around US$1,000 a day, so US$3,000 for the 3 days (Friday to Sunday).  The rented space alone was $3 per action figure, it's like my intern's brother got $17, and that'd be basically his COGS AND his margin...so roughly...

 

...y'know that gels with what my vendor said around $10 for a basic 1/6th toy, double or triple for fancier ones...this is well within the ballpark.

 

BUT it is nowhere near the quality you described.  There's no points-of-articulation at the elbows or knees, in fact you get him to speak by squeezing his legs, his likeness is really quite good though; the public figure is a very stiff politician.  So I'd pay the premium price, yeah, around $25, Kriegers don't talk.

 

TL;DR - actual production costs of $10 to $30 really sound about right to me, 1,000 units is about the range, otherwise the business is not worth doing.

 

UPDATE - and I'm proven wrong, I got another message from someone else while writing all this after my photo.  She has another vendor.  If these were simple plushies, like let's say I make a Plushie Krieger Chibi the Cute...minimum order is 100 (one hundred).  I really guess it just depends.

Edited November 11, 2023 by N1SB

[Metzombie]

@N1SB Very interesting. And it shows how importend it can be to know the right people. I mean you could have started the production with out much effort.(It is not unlikely something later in the process could need some extra effort. Shipping can still be a hassle depending on the destination.)

 

@Slips Yeah a lower production would cost more per piece, but one thing to remember is N1SB did not try to negotiate at all.

 

 

Edit:I wrote this before N1SB second post, but was to slow.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Metzombie

[Bung]

1 hour ago, Slips said:

I have to ask though: your guy mentioned a minimum order of 1k but for quite a few of the 1/6th and 1/4th scale unlicensed statues I see being produced in China, they usually have edition sizes of 188, 288 or something under ~300 for the most part.

And if this guardsman falls into that Edition Size range, Im assuming that the per-unit cost would not be as low as your guy presented and the cost difference between ordering ~200-300 and 1000 should be rather significant.

For most Museum-style posed statues in 1/6th scale that I know of - whether licensed or not - they usually average ~250-330$ (and even reaching 4-500$ sometimes) before shipping so this being poseable to some extent as well as having non-sculpted elements (such as the coat) is probably where the cost is reduced since there isnt as much labor involved in cleaning up the sculpts as well as assembly and as much painting work required.

 

Could probably the moulds they use for the Edition size.

If i look at Resin display miniatures, some are Limited to 150 or 200 as the silicone moulds for Resin Casting wears Out at that time.

 

So i f they would do 5 moulds at a time for production efficency it would fit.

[Warden-Paints]

If GW wanted to work with a company like Threezero or Blitzway to produce 1/6 scale figures I would be very interested, but they don't seem interested. 

 

So I bought this. How unethical of me. 

[N1SB]

3 hours ago, Warden-Paints said:

So I bought this. How unethical of me. 

 

Brother, don't worry.  I'm a Chinese corporate globalist capitalist, that works in Big Tech.

 

I'm the ugliest guy in the bar.  Just stand next to me, I'll make you look good.

 

And I share all this because I found myself asking, "how the cog does this world of custom toys work?"

 

Now I wonder, "The world (the whole world, I mean this mortal coil) can't possibly work like this, can it?"

 

 

+++ LET ME GET REAL FOR A MINUTE +++

 

 

The mods give me a lot of leeway.  I know it, I appreciate it, I don't take liberties with it.  This is important to say.

 

None of this topic is to make anyone feel bad about what they purchase, for how much.  The gross profit margin for this $185 action figure at a unit price that I've been suspecting is that $35 "preorder cost" is around 80%.  Games Workshop itself aims for a gross profit margin of 70%, so no big deal.

 

(Cogdammit, I just made everyone feel bad about purchasing GW minis, haven't I.  Remember cheaper Christmas battleboxes coming soon.)

 

It just shows how outdated a concept capitalism is.  This is not political talk, this is pure process talk.  The capitalism we still have now, even in the age of Big Tech, is from the Industrial Revolution.  A capitalist with his big bag of money funds a big fixed cost factory to make stuff...but it no longer takes a factory!

 

What it takes is some kid to make a CAD file with an affordable computer, a cheap 3D printer, some resin and maybe an airbrush.

 

The real value of everything is no longer in brick & mortar structures, it's all in a bunch of dudes' brains, to make a CAD file, an App, etc.

 

So our Fraters know I go through GW's Financial Annual Report.  I can tell you immediately how much their facilities are worth, it's about £55 million, it's their Nottingham factory and their studio space and their distribution centre that's next to/part of an Amazon distri centre.  And I have no idea how much the Warhammer IP is worth.

 

This learning exercise is causing an existential crisis in me, if I think more, I'm afraid I'll blink myself out of reality.  But it's been fascinating.

Edited November 11, 2023 by N1SB

[N1SB]

6 hours ago, Slips said:

I have to ask though: your guy mentioned a minimum order of 1k but for quite a few of the 1/6th and 1/4th scale unlicensed statues I see being produced in China, they usually have edition sizes of 188, 288 or something under ~300 for the most part.

 

Brother, it just clicked.  8 is a lucky number.  It sounds like the Chinese word for fortune, like both in auspiciousness and financial gain.

 

If you mean they did a production run of 188 or 288, like this is the amount...that's like a telltale sign of there had been some discussion of the number.  Like the producer in China said, "This project doesn't really pay off for me unless it's at least 200, but I'll agree to 188 for double good luck."

 

And sometimes this is just a face saving measure, like "I refuse to go below 200!  This is my red line to show I'm a tough boss to my subordinates, I'm a real cutthroat businessman!  But seriously, I will go down to 188 not because I'm superstitious, but it's a nice number that I can tell a story to my employees."

 

It's not so much the play on words as it is an indicator was some negotiation, and they settled on these '88 numbers because of that built-in excuse.

[DuskRaider]

11 hours ago, Warden-Paints said:

If GW wanted to work with a company like Threezero or Blitzway to produce 1/6 scale figures I would be very interested, but they don't seem interested. 

 

So I bought this. How unethical of me. 

I bought one and I may get more. I have no shame in it, it’s something that I want and I will go to whatever source I can to obtain it. I really do wish that GW would dip their toe in the market though… especially since the sixth scale market is very expensive, especially when it comes to licensed products. I don’t even want to think about how much my collection has cost me over the years…

[Bung]

On 11/11/2023 at 3:41 PM, N1SB said:

 

Brother, it just clicked.  8 is a lucky number.  It sounds like the Chinese word for fortune, like both in auspiciousness and financial gain.

 

If you mean they did a production run of 188 or 288, like this is the amount...that's like a telltale sign of there had been some discussion of the number.  Like the producer in China said, "This project doesn't really pay off for me unless it's at least 200, but I'll agree to 188 for double good luck."

 

And sometimes this is just a face saving measure, like "I refuse to go below 200!  This is my red line to show I'm a tough boss to my subordinates, I'm a real cutthroat businessman!  But seriously, I will go down to 188 not because I'm superstitious, but it's a nice number that I can tell a story to my employees."

 

It's not so much the play on words as it is an indicator was some negotiation, and they settled on these '88 numbers because of that built-in excuse.

 

That insight about business culture is quite interesting.

[Muck1ng]

Anyone know of a good retailer to order this from?  shipping to the UK?

Edited November 14, 2023 by Muck1ng

[N1SB]

16 hours ago, Bung said:

 

That insight about business culture is quite interesting.

 

Yeah, you hear what I'm saying.  Like you mentioned, when making the mold, you think like 100, 200 uses.  You wouldn't think 188, 288.  Now I don't know the exact reasoning behind it, but that specific and noticeable number (it's like a heavy metal band producing exactly 666 of some limited edition CD) is no way an accident.

 

Don't take my word for it.  You'll notice on the web articles/YouTubes about how hotels and apartments in Hong Kong have no floor 14 because it sounds like "must die", then now no floor 13 because they're sensitive to people from the West and they learned that's an unlucky number (but of course Westerners don't really care.)

 

It sounds silly, but when a flat costs millions...even I didn't want to buy on an unlucky floor.  When I rent out, I'd have to drop my price when I do.

 

I might actually ask around about that '88 next time I can, because in immersing myself in the topic, I entered their circles, as you guys will see next post.

[N1SB]

Fraters, I know we've grown beyond the scope of the original post, but this is valuable intel, and to understand the part, we have to understand the whole.

 

Here is as far as I'll go down this Rabbit Hole, because any further I'll be doing something illegal/unethical/possibly fattening.  In trying to understand the background behind this unlicensed toy...I pretty much had to learn about ALL unlicensed toys AND licensed toys...they come from the SAME people.

 

(I am trying to guide the person involved in this specific case towards Imperial Compliance and to use his talents for the Greater Good.  Edit - one detail  irrelevant to the bigger picture here has been changed in order to protect the identity of individuals.)

 

To be clear, I'm NOT promoting unlicensed toys or even the idea of them.  I present this as examples/evidence/exhibits A and B:

 

 

Recently, Games Workshop announced official Nurgling plushy dolls.  These are NOT those.  A Warhammer Hobbyist commissioned these.

 

Actually, these are NOT Nurglings.  They're Green Kirbies...like y'know, Kirby from Nintendo.  They sucked in Nurgle's Rot and pressed Down.

 

(So I'm like, "Kid, now you're gonna get sued by Nintendo instead of GW...and Nintendo's a lot bigger and more competent."  More on that later.)

 

These "two" are the same doll; they're just the front and back.  They have a zipper so you can put stuff in there, like a box of tissues.

 

Do NOT expect to see these for sale online, as these were made for friends, family and a specific very local and niche community.  They were produced because minimum order 100 (one hundred, not one thousand).  He had planned to commission like 10 for himself, but the cost was such it was a better deal at 100.

 

+++++

 

In my search for just understanding, I didn't talk to 1 person, but many.  Over the course of a weekend, all these replies came trickling in.

 

I show this to demonstrate not how prevalent the problem is...you know already know it, but to show how fast this industry works.  I sent out my feelers out on a Saturday; by Sunday night I got my hands on these.  They're all wheelers and dealers and they move faster than we make up our minds.

 

We had to set up a secretive meeting point at like a loading dock.  Why, yes, it WAS just like a John Woo film.

 

+++++

 

In the process of understanding the broader topic of unlicensed toys, I basically had to talk to the people behind them.  This Hobbyist does play Chaos, but leans towards Khorne/World Eaters.  He is a Hong Kong college student studying design, multimedia, etc.  Most of all, he is one of us.

 

He's using the training/processes/resources as his accredited, respected universities (it's one of a leading very pro-Western, pro-legal establishment one.)  From what I gathered, it's almost certainly the same types as my vendor for marketing swag.  They're all in one area, known as Shenzhen.

 

And it's basically the same region as those that make all the toys, licensed or unlicensed.  Hasbro, probably Joy Toy and Hot Toys (the famous premium Marvel toy maker.)  It's probably the same few people, like when Joy Toy expands, they'll just cross the street to hire whoever made the unlicensed Krieger.

 

I paid at-cost prices to gather this evidence.  If this person made 1,000 (one thousand) instead of 100 (a hundred), it'd be 1/3rd (33%) of the price.  This Hobbyist basically chose the best manufacturer who already made plushies, this project is just a variation of what they're used to making.  This kid did the management work.

 

This Hobbyist designed the tailor's blueprint himself.  They look like a blueprint, and it's to scale, like all the pieces are shown to-scale, you can lay them on the paper to see if they fit, with details on how to assemble them.  Then he'd discuss with a workshop representative, go over the instructions and expectations.

 

What I noticed was the official licensed Nurgling plushy looks like GW showed some random producer the official Nurgling and said "replicate this."  It doesn't feel like what it should.  THESE unlicensed Nurglings Green Kirbies actually capture the real spirit despite/because they're not adhering to the form.

 

 

Tomy's a good company.  They make toy trucks and ZOIDS, ZOIDS are freaking cool.  This is well-produced, but not cute like mine.

 

+++++

 

That lead me to what I'm only describe as a roundtable with other People In the Know.  Once they, y'know, figured I'm not a Narc wearing a wire.

 

This will be most intuitive to those of us that grew up in bad neighbourhoods: like all real gangsters, all over the world, all all of them want is to go legit.

 

They didn't say those words to me; this was me starting to understand them.  They all want to be like a Hot Toys, famous for making premium, top shelf, high profit margin official toys for Marvel, promoted by them.  But the very driven people who CAN make good stuff often don't work at big companies with legal departments.

 

This is just about process, not a discussion on IP law.  It's about people, with the know-how, doing the work...lacking access to those legal resources.

 

I've seen this happen.  Licensing, including IP, imagines in its very foundation these large, long-lasting organisations for long-term contracts with all sorts of oversight done by expensive professionals.  But all the guys that can create value are individual wheelers & dealers.  And I'll give you an example now.

 

One guy had an outburst, he did NOT blame greedy Western corporations, he lamented how obstinate the Hong Kong legal system was.

 

(You know a man is truth-telling when he doesn't talk about The Other, he's screaming about the dysfunction in his own family.)

 

The idea was this: he mentioned another East Asian country, like it was Japan or South Korea or Taiwan (it was a noisy place) do these short-term limited duration IP licenses.  So you make like a toy toy, you sell it at just one weekend convention, it's a limited edition item ONLY made 1 time, officially recognised.

 

I showed you public figure action figure, no IP needed as such, but it was exactly that practice.  It was a joke, a meme, that wouldn't last a year.

 

Then we have things here you might not have in your locale.  Pop-Up Shops that lease a storefront for 1 week, then next week it'll be a totally different store, because they sell some specialist or novelty thing.  Women love those, like they go to the same spot, every time they go it's a different shopping experience.

 

In other places we have these shops with many little stores inside.  Basically, you got 1 guy at the till, but on these glass cases visible both inside and outside as the window display, there are all these little cubby holes, like a shelf, all belonging to a different shopkeeper.  They pool their resources to sell tiny collectibles.

 

But outside that East Asian country (if I get a chance I'll ask which it was), legal deparments want to deal with other big corporations to make it easier on themselves.  They won't even work with Pop-Up stores or little cubby holes.  Big bureaucratic legal departments are inherently incompatible with these nimble creators.

 

So how did Hot Toys come to make great figures for Marvel?  I know Disney is GENUINELY GOOD at licensing.  They made sure Fantasy Flight Games included Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader for free instead in Imperial Assault or SW Legions.  I've worked with Disney, they're very clever, surprisingly flexible.

 

You've seen evidence of this last few days.  I sent out messages via WhatsApp expecting replies in a week.  They got together with me the very next day.  Lawyer retainership lasts for months, years, charging by the hour, for people who are used to getting a deal done over a weekend meal.  Different universes.

 

+++++

 

This isn't some discriminatory post against lawyers.  It was a lawyer herself that clued me in on how things worked, back from San Jose.  Showing me how things work is like the nicest thing a person could do to me aside from making me food, is how my brain works.  So I appreciate these very people.

 

What this guy was referring to was the Hong Kong legal system.  I had my 1st run-in with IP law working at a dot-com in California.  There, the law was this very slow, often expensive, ancient machine that grinds.  The Hong Kong legal system is more like a private club.  You need to be like a certain class to belong.

 

(One Oxford-trained Hobbyist had a shake-his-head moment describing judges here.  They'd wear their stupid wigs out of court.  In the UK, judges are like actual humans who want to take it off as soon as possible, but here in Hong Kong judges WANT to show off they're the elite.  You saw that new AoS FEC Judge Ghoul?  Like he's an undead with posturing and posing of what he thinks is very regal?  Actually what happens here.)

 

This Green Kirby Hobbyist HAD previously approached some company for licensing IP.  It was a group of students.  They WANTED to start their professional lives the right way, they would pool together their talents and money they borrowed from their parents.  Lawyers don't want to deal with some college kids.

 

You can see both sides.  I don't want to deal with some college kids, but some, like this one, was an absolute gem.

 

+++++

 

I mentioned I'm trying to bring this kid into Imperial Compliance and stop being a Heretic.  It's hard, because I'm a bit of a Heretic myself.

 

He did not know GW was licensing their own Nurgling Plushy with Tomy.  They did something before and they were recalled along with some Squig or something, that was a one-off thing he thought.  If he did, he wouldn't have made these, if only because now he can't offload the 90+ Green Kirbies he still got.

 

It was just like a fan project, he considered the lead-lag of the manufacturing process, he's now an expert in fan project management.

 

This kid's a cosplayer, got a really good Guardsmen cosplay.  Cosplaying is like trying to get as close to the source material as possible.  He's using his sewing skills to recreate an authentic grimdark experience.  Yes, he's confused about IP law...but I also think IP law is confused about someone like him.

 

There's no stopping this crazy train, I can only get him back on track a little.  Like instead of Nurgling, how about a "Khorneling" or "Slaaneshling".  Tzeentch has already those little brimfire horrors, but no Blood Imp or Pleasure Puck.  I'm trying to steer him towards a Plush of Excess or something.

 

Oh man...some little cute Slaanesh thing, of pleasure and excess...y'know, maybe this is a really bad idea after all.  But small steps to the Imperial Truth.

Edited November 16, 2023 by N1SB

[MichelleC]

 

Fraters, I know we've grown beyond the scope of the original post, but this is valuable intel, and to understand the part, we have to understand the whole.

 

Here is as far as I'll go down this Rabbit Hole, because any further I'll be doing something illegal/unethical/possibly fattening.  In trying to understand the background behind this unlicensed toy...I pretty much had to learn about ALL unlicensed toys AND licensed toys...they come from the SAME people.

 

(I am trying to guide the person involved in this specific case towards Imperial Compliance and to use his talents for the Greater Good.  Edit - one detail  irrelevant to the bigger picture here has been changed in order to protect the identity of individuals.)

 

To be clear, I'm NOT promoting unlicensed toys or even the idea of them.  I present this as examples/evidence/exhibits A and B:

 

 

Recently, Games Workshop announced official Nurgling plushy dolls.  These are NOT those.  A Warhammer Hobbyist commissioned these.

 

Actually, these are NOT Nurglings.  They're Green Kirbies...like y'know, Kirby from Nintendo.  They sucked in Nurgle's Rot and pressed Down.

 

(So I'm like, "Kid, now you're gonna get sued by Nintendo instead of GW...and Nintendo's a lot bigger and more competent."  More on that later.)

 

These "two" are the same doll; they're just the front and back.  They have a zipper so you can put stuff in there, like a box of tissues.

 

Do NOT expect to see these for sale online, as these were made for friends, family and a specific very local and niche community.  They were produced because minimum order 100 (one hundred, not one thousand).  He had planned to commission like 10 for himself, but the cost was such it was a better deal at 100.

 

+++++

 

In my search for just understanding, I didn't talk to 1 person, but many.  Over the course of a weekend, all these replies came trickling in.

 

I show this to demonstrate not how prevalent the problem is...you know already know it, but to show how fast this industry works.  I sent out my feelers out on a Saturday; by Sunday night I got my hands on these.  They're all wheelers and dealers and they move faster than we make up our minds.

 

We had to set up a secretive meeting point at like a loading dock.  Why, yes, it WAS just like a John Woo film.

 

+++++

 

In the process of understanding the broader topic of unlicensed toys, I basically had to talk to the people behind them.  This Hobbyist does play Chaos, but leans towards Khorne/World Eaters.  He is a Hong Kong college student studying design, multimedia, etc.  Most of all, he is one of us.

 

He's using the training/processes/resources as his accredited, respected universities (it's one of a leading very pro-Western, pro-legal establishment one.)  From what I gathered, it's almost certainly the same types as my vendor for marketing swag.  They're all in one area, known as Shenzhen.

 

And it's basically the same region as those that make all the toys, licensed or unlicensed.  Hasbro, probably Joy Toy and Hot Toys (the famous premium Marvel toy maker.)  It's probably the same few people, like when Joy Toy expands, they'll just cross the street to hire whoever made the unlicensed Krieger.

 

I paid at-cost prices to gather this evidence.  If this person made 1,000 (one thousand) instead of 100 (a hundred), it'd be 1/3rd (33%) of the price.  This Hobbyist basically chose the best manufacturer who already made plushies, this project is just a variation of what they're used to making.  This kid did the management work.

 

This Hobbyist designed the tailor's blueprint himself.  They look like a blueprint, and it's to scale, like all the pieces are shown to-scale, you can lay them on the paper to see if they fit, with details on how to assemble them.  Then he'd discuss with a workshop representative, go over the instructions and expectations.

 

What I noticed was the official licensed Nurgling plushy looks like GW showed some random producer the official Nurgling and said "replicate this."  It doesn't feel like what it should.  THESE unlicensed Nurglings Green Kirbies actually capture the real spirit despite/because they're not adhering to the form.

 

 

Tomy's a good company.  They make toy trucks and ZOIDS, ZOIDS are freaking cool.  This is well-produced, but not cute like mine.

 

+++++

 

That lead me to what I'm only describe as a roundtable with other People In the Know.  Once they, y'know, figured I'm not a Narc wearing a wire.

 

This will be most intuitive to those of us that grew up in bad neighbourhoods: like all real gangsters, all over the world, all all of them want is to go legit.

 

They didn't say those words to me; this was me starting to understand them.  They all want to be like a Hot Toys, famous for making premium, top shelf, high profit margin official toys for Marvel, promoted by them.  But the very driven people who CAN make good stuff often don't work at big companies with legal departments.

 

This is just about process, not a discussion on IP law.  It's about people, with the know-how, doing the work...lacking access to those legal resources.

 

I've seen this happen.  Licensing, including IP, imagines in its very foundation these large, long-lasting organisations for long-term contracts with all sorts of oversight done by expensive professionals.  But all the guys that can create value are individual wheelers & dealers.  And I'll give you an example now.

 

One guy had an outburst, he did NOT blame greedy Western corporations, he lamented how obstinate the Hong Kong legal system was.

 

(You know a man is truth-telling when he doesn't talk about The Other, he's screaming about the dysfunction in his own family.)

 

The idea was this: he mentioned another East Asian country, like it was Japan or South Korea or Taiwan (it was a noisy place) do these short-term limited duration IP licenses.  So you make like a toy toy, you sell it at just one weekend convention, it's a limited edition item ONLY made 1 time, officially recognised.

 

I showed you public figure action figure, no IP needed as such, but it was exactly that practice.  It was a joke, a meme, that wouldn't last a year.

 

Then we have things here you might not have in your locale.  Pop-Up Shops that lease a storefront for 1 week, then next week it'll be a totally different store, because they sell some specialist or novelty thing.  Women love those, like they go to the same spot, every time they go it's a different shopping experience.

 

In other places we have these shops with many little stores inside.  Basically, you got 1 guy at the till, but on these glass cases visible both inside and outside as the window display, there are all these little cubby holes, like a shelf, all belonging to a different shopkeeper.  They pool their resources to sell tiny collectibles.

 

But outside that East Asian country (if I get a chance I'll ask which it was), legal deparments want to deal with other big corporations to make it easier on themselves.  They won't even work with Pop-Up stores or little cubby holes.  Big bureaucratic legal departments are inherently incompatible with these nimble creators.

 

So how did Hot Toys come to make great figures for Marvel?  I know Disney is GENUINELY GOOD at licensing.  They made sure Fantasy Flight Games included Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader for free instead in Imperial Assault or SW Legions.  I've worked with Disney, they're very clever, surprisingly flexible.

 

You've seen evidence of this last few days.  I sent out messages via WhatsApp expecting replies in a week.  They got together with me the very next day.  Lawyer retainership lasts for months, years, charging by the hour, for people who are used to getting a deal done over a weekend meal.  Different universes.

 

+++++

 

This isn't some discriminatory post against lawyers.  It was a lawyer herself that clued me in on how things worked, back from San Jose.  Showing me how things work is like the nicest thing a person could do to me aside from making me food, is how my brain works.  So I appreciate these very people.

 

What this guy was referring to was the Hong Kong legal system.  I had my 1st run-in with IP law working at a dot-com in California.  There, the law was this very slow, often expensive, ancient machine that grinds.  The Hong Kong legal system is more like a private club.  You need to be like a certain class to belong.

 

(One Oxford-trained Hobbyist had a shake-his-head moment describing judges here.  They'd wear their stupid wigs out of court.  In the UK, judges are like actual humans who want to take it off as soon as possible, but here in Hong Kong judges WANT to show off they're the elite.  You saw that new AoS FEC Judge Ghoul?  Like he's an undead with posturing and posing of what he thinks is very regal?  Actually what happens here.)

 

This Green Kirby Hobbyist HAD previously approached some company for licensing IP.  It was a group of students.  They WANTED to start their professional lives the right way, they would pool together their talents and money they borrowed from their parents.  Lawyers don't want to deal with some college kids.

 

You can see both sides.  I don't want to deal with some college kids, but some, like this one, was an absolute gem.

 

+++++

 

I mentioned I'm trying to bring this kid into Imperial Compliance and stop being a Heretic.  It's hard, because I'm a bit of a Heretic myself.

 

He did not know GW was licensing their own Nurgling Plushy with Tomy.  They did something before and they were recalled along with some Squig or something, that was a one-off thing he thought.  If he did, he wouldn't have made these, if only because now he can't offload the 90+ Green Kirbies he still got.

 

It was just like a fan project, he considered the lead-lag of the manufacturing process, he's now an expert in fan project management.

 

This kid's a cosplayer, got a really good Guardsmen cosplay.  Cosplaying is like trying to get as close to the source material as possible.  He's using his sewing skills to recreate an authentic grimdark experience.  Yes, he's confused about IP law...but I also think IP law is confused about someone like him.

 

There's no stopping this crazy train, I can only get him back on track a little.  Like instead of Nurgling, how about a "Khorneling" or "Slaaneshling".  Tzeentch has already those little brimfire horrors, but no Blood Imp or Pleasure Puck.  I'm trying to steer him towards a Plush of Excess or something.

 

Oh man...some little cute Slaanesh thing, of pleasure and excess...y'know, maybe this is a really bad idea after all.  But small steps to the Imperial Truth.

 The idea of pivoting from unlicensed projects to original concepts is a smart move—suggesting names like "Khorneling" or "Slaaneshling" could lead to unique products that capture the spirit without the legal pitfalls.