WE or Hounds of Abaddon

[happyslugger]

Posted this in the WE forum for general thoughts, but figured it may be an idea to post here also.

 

Hi folks,

 

I've been stockpiling bits and bobs and with the Xmas box announcement I am aiming to get the WE box.

 

This coupled with the bits I have, a CSM box and a WE box (starters) should give me all in need.

 

I'm unsure if I should paint up all the WE specific models in the traditional red scheme, with the others as BL, or just paint the whole lot as hounds of Abaddon.

 

I figured if I do the whole lot as Hounds of Abaddon, I can then use them as BL or WE. Obviously as BL I'll get to use more toys also (already have Abaddon painted up using GW video) and in my head I can use them as WE (mono) or run them with my khorne demons if I want. 

 

I know I can't use BL or WE specific units where they are not allowed (obliterators and eight bound for example) but what do you think?

 

I have Khârn but haven't built or painted him...would it be okay to paint him using the hounds of Abaddon colour scheme and he could be a generic HQ or something when running as BL (but couldn't use Khârn's rules?) But then if I play them as WE, I can use him as Khârn.

 

Would people have an issue with this or would people be okay, so long as I don't mix and match rules?

Edited November 1, 2023 by happyslugger

[WrathOfTheLion]

Any way would work for me. If you bring Khorne Berserkers in a CSM list, and they're painted as World Eaters, that's totally fine. If you want to do it all as Hounds of Abaddon, that's also fine. It should be okay, as long as you're clear which Codex/Index you're using at a given time.

 

You could also paint the World Eaters up in any alternate scheme as well. For example, they have painted examples of the scheme for Gladiator Cadre 331, which is white and blue. So painting them as Hounds of Abaddon is perfectly fine.

Edited November 1, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[happyslugger]

Thanks.

 

I think I will go with the hounds of Abaddon colour scheme as I'm not the fastest or best painter, so the speed will help me keep motivated.

 

Then if I want to just use them as WE, I will use the correct rules and correct models.  Likewise for black legion.

 

Doubtful that I would run BL and WE at the same time, so shouldn't really have an issue there. It will also allow me to use them alongside my demons..

[MithrilForge]

I totally agree , Hounds of Abaddon seems like (for you especially) the perfect way to paint them and get the most out of gameplay as well!!  

look forward to seeing your work !! 

 

++EDIT++ 

Just to add to this, Not sure how /what colours you paint with but i was thinking For Hounds of Abaddon a quick (but nice paint job with minimal effort would be to base the whole model in Leadbelcher or your fav dark metal colour, dry brush highlights on with increasingly bright silvers ... then i would use Black templar contrast to fill in all the black only area's then (very carefully) do a coat of 1:1: Garaghaks sewer & Contrast medium with just a touch of Ratling grime mixed in over the sliver trim (and/or areas you want gold), it makes a nice gold/brass colour.  see below- 

 

 

 

Cheers, M 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Mumeishi

[happyslugger]

Cheers @Mumeishi

I will just follow the basic GW battle ready video on YouTube but add a little highlighting at the end.  Keeps it simple for me and not too onerous.  Having done over 2k of thousand sons last year, I'm not looking for anything too time consuming this time around 

[MithrilForge]

No worries, 

what you have sounds like a good plan anyway . 
 

cheers M 

 

p.s. Urk ..2k if T sons sounds like a chore 

[Malakithe]

How does one add Berzerkers to a generic CSM roster now? The app has them under allied units...whats the rules for using allied units then?

[Metzombie]

@MalakitheIn the App under Chaos Space Marines-Army Rules-The Lost and the Damned are the rules for adding Culttroops to your army.

[happyslugger]

I will likely run them as BL anyway, but then use the khorne specific units alongside my khorne demons.  Sorry should have clarified my intentions.

 

Black legion - but painted like hounds of Abaddon.

 

W.E - but painted like hounds of Abaddon.

[happyslugger]

Not sure if this will work, but some potato images of my TS

 

 

 

And some of the big guys

 

 

 

 

 

[LSM]

5 hours ago, Malakithe said:

How does one add Berzerkers to a generic CSM roster now? The app has them under allied units...whats the rules for using allied units then?

 

Up to a quarter of your army (points wise) can be Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and/or Rubric Marines, from their respective Index/Codex and costing their respective points cost.

 

They lose their Faction keyword, and gain the Heretic Astartes one in its place. They do not gain the Dark Pacts faction ability.

 

As such, Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch marked Chosen/Legionaries can (more-or-less) do everything that the cult troops can do (but better), and so there's no reason to take cult troops. (Rubric Marines with Warpflamers maybe being the exception, as they offer a unique trick.) 

 

//

 

For example, Berzerkers are 230 pts for 10 models. So are Khorne Chosen. Both have A 4, WS 3+, S 5 melee weapons, but the Chosen have more AP (-2 vs -1). A full unit of Berzerkers can take 3 Plasma Pistols and 2 Eviscerators. A full unit of Khorne Chosen can take up to 4 Plasma Pistols, 2 Power Fists, 4 Combi-Weapons, and 2 Lightning Claws. (Though only ten of those twelve, naturally.) Berzerkers move d6 towards units who kill one of them in the shooting phase, Khorne Chosen can Shoot and Charge after having Advanced. Berzerkers have an OC of 2 (vs the Chosen's 1), while a Khorne Chosen will have 3 wounds (vs the Berzerker's 2). Khorne Chosen have Bolters as well as their Bolt Pistols. Khorne Chosen can Dark Pact, giving them [Sustained Hits] or [Lethal Hits], and will get Critical Hits 5+ in melee if choosing the latter. Khorne Chosen can have CSM Leaders attach to them.

 

If you're short on points, Khorne Legionaries are 200 for 10. They have one less S (4), but can re-roll a Wound roll of 1 (or re-roll Wound rolls in general, if on an Objective). They can have a Plasma Pistol, 2 special weapons (including, but not limited to, a further Plasma Pistol), and 2 Heavy Melee Weapons. They can Dark Pact.

Edited November 2, 2023 by LSM

[Rain]

You’re probably not wrong as to your overall point @LSM, but Berzerkers were reduced to 200 pts/10 models. See: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/qqKTEzqYOX5Z84sH.pdf

 

Then again, Chosen were likewise reduced to 220/10. Anyway, given that the Berzerkers lose Blessings of Khorne, which is largely what makes WE a functional army, and don’t gain Dark Pacts, (or anything else) to compensate, they are probably a dead choice in CSM lists, as LSM says.  Actually, they were slightly overpriced at 23 ppm even in a WE list, with the advantage of BoK, in my opinion. At 20 ppm they are fine in a WE list, but definitely overpriced in CSM.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I would certainly be okay with Berzerker models being run as Mark of Khorne Chosen in a CSM list, though.  They can take a couple plasma pistols too, the axes can all be accursed weapons; the only thing not really WYSIWYG is the lack of bolters but that's a small nit to pick at.

[Abanshee]

I'd really try to make them look like the Hounds of Abaddon with the bits you have (Basically, just throw in a regular CSM bit in here or there on the models), however, otherwise I don't see a single problem as long as it's WYSIWYG.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Abanshee

[happyslugger]

I've got 10 CSM, 10 havoc's, 40 cultists, 2 oblits and 5 raptors (all stuff I've either had years or picked up dirt cheap). I have some more older mini chaos marines, with the FW lascannons and autocannons (and the big man himself who was a gift from the wife ages ago). I went to my local GW yesterday to have a look and realised the WE all have WE shoulder pads.  So I'm going to look at mixing some of the kits up.  Stick some berserker heads on the CSM bodies and things like that. 

 

Sp asking to the GW manager and talking through my idea he said he was going to source some should pads for me also from his bits box.  

 

They are all being painted black legion with elements of red (left shoulder pads, power fists and such). My head cannon if I run them as WE is that they are a WE warband that likes to fight with the BL and WE to collect as many skulls as possible lol

[Rain]

I wouldn’t see any issue with using World Eaters rules for a Hounds of Abaddon force. After all, the HoA have butcher-surgeons, are implanted with Butcher’s Nails, and serve/are favored by Khorne. They almost certainly have a few World Eaters mixed in, too, given that the Black Legion is a coalition.

 

That said, given your current collection, CSM with everything having Mark of Khorne makes a lot more sense as WE cannot use Havocs, Oblits, or Raptors. Cultists you count convert/counts as Jakhals in a pinch, but the rest has no direct analogue.

[happyslugger]

I would only use the WE specific models to play them as WE (so no havoc's and such) and vica versa. I plan to pick up the WE Xmas battlebox a further WE patrol box (which will give me most of the models for a WE force) and then just CSM models to fill out the BL.  Any tanks that can be used in both (rhino / LR for example) will be painted as HoA and then I can use them in either my WE or BL.  When playing as BL for example, I can also pull in the relevant models from my DG and TS (although they will be painted in their own existing colours).

 

What my ultimate goal is really to build up the models and then have a selection of WE sculpts I can play as WE (although painted as HoA) but then use the relevant and allowed models in my BL force (so no eight bound in the BL for example). 

 

Cultists, I've just got based with chaos black at present and will use them as whatever flavour is needed (my group won't care). Most likely the last models I will paint up lol

 

What I won't be able to do, proceeding the way I plan, is to have half a BL force and the other half WE in a battle, as they will all look the same.

 

Hopefully makes sense 

Edited November 5, 2023 by happyslugger

[hereticdave]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:53 PM, happyslugger said:

I have Khârn but haven't built or painted him...would it be okay to paint him using the hounds of Abaddon colour scheme and he could be a generic HQ or something when running as BL (but couldn't use Khârn's rules?) But then if I play them as WE, I can use him as Khârn.

 

I've just started a small Hounds of Abaddon force for some oldhammer, so won't have the same force composition problems that you face, but I painted Khârn the Betrayer in the black and red scheme to lead the army: