'Bulking up' older sculpts?

[Astartes Consul]

With scale creep being a theme of Heresy 2.0, I'm sure lots of us own some older kits that might need a bit of a glow up.

 

For example, I have some FW MKII marines I've been planning to strip and repaint, along with some of the recently replaced 40k Terminators that I want to use for a storm shield & thunder hammer Indomitus Squad. I don't want them to go to waste, especially as I've pulled together all the various bits that I need to convert them already! I also have an alarming number XIII Legion torso upgrades that need a home...

 

So, I was wondering if any of you have gone about 'bulking up' these older kits for use alongside the lovely new sculpts. Or have you not bothered? Some things I've considered include:

 

• Thin plasticard 'soles' under the feet, to make them stand taller
• Greenstuff blob as a spacer between the torso and legs.
• A lot of additional pouches etc around the waste - especially on the MKII kit which was always skinny - to bulk them out.

 

I don't have an issue with them being smaller and I'm not looking to fully true scale. But I don't want any models I use to look thin or spindly next to my MK VI & III kits, as well as the inevitable future units that GW release in this scale.

 

Ps. Posting this here, rather than in PC&A, as I think is something the Heresy enthusiasts among us probably have the most experience and interest with.

[Grotsmasha]

Here's the type of result you can get from plasticard spacers (old conversion, I whipped this up for a similar question a while back, I didn't have plasticard on hand and used an old 25mm base), using greenstuff in the waist would allow you to tidy up around the belt and get a cleaner finish.

 

also being a plastic model, I was able to buff the top half chest out too,

 

 

 

 

[Astartes Consul]

5 hours ago, Grotsmasha said:

Here's the type of result you can get from plasticard spacers (old conversion, I whipped this up for a similar question a while back, I didn't have plasticard on hand and used an old 25mm base), using greenstuff in the waist would allow you to tidy up around the belt and get a cleaner finish.

 

also being a plastic model, I was able to buff the top half chest out too,

 

 

 

 

 

This is really cool, thank you! What did you put between the legs and torso? Just a disk of plastic?

[Grotsmasha]

1 hour ago, Astartes Consul said:

 

This is really cool, thank you! What did you put between the legs and torso? Just a disk of plastic?

Yep, just a trimmed piece of the rim from the same 25mm base, as the curve would help match the curve on the legs and inside the torso,

 

I just want to say, although this one is a bit rough, much tidier results can be achieved if you allow a small overlap of the card and sand it smooth with a sanding stick, or one of those dollar store cardboard nail files.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Grotsmasha

[LameBeard]

I’m impressed by this but it still seems a lot of work? I decided I would just start a new legion in the new scale and keep all my old scale stuff, but this is becoming tricky, because it’s hampering my tactical choices of what legion gets what model in my pile of grey.

 

I have seen people use tactical rocks (eg 3mm cork layer) for old scale and straight to base for new scale as a way of tricking the eye, so I might do this if I have to.

 

Those mk ii will be very valuable if you were to sell them. Even the terminators will probably make their money back now the GW kit is discontinued - some people want that scale!  
 

I saw a great spacehulk blog on upscaling terminators but it seems to have disappeared from the internet.

[Bung]

What i have seen to keep better proportions is to insert spacers in the upper legs.

Cut them and glue 1 or 1,5 mm plasticcard, then file it flush again. That would avoid the moonboot look of spacers under the soles.

[Jings]

Small greenstuff lump on the waist joint and 1-1.5mm plasticard on the soles of the feet. Bam, an extra 3-5mm of height (depending) for an extra 20 minutes work for a 10-man squad. Add pouches where appropriate to hide the join. You can do the same with Tartaros Terminators too. 

 

Cataphractii can be upscaled relatively easily too and you can use a similar method but due to the cabling you're limited on how high you can raise them. I've developed a fast method to upscale them but it's a more involved process that just a greenstuff blob. When I'm next at the unit I'll take a couple pics to give you guys examples of both methods if folks are interested. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Jings

[FashaTheDog]

My 40K Deathwing solved this exact problem with ease; they simply ignored the size discrepancy.  Yes, there is a huge difference between the oldest and newest as shown below, but with so many varied sizes and the same color scheme, they all blend together and is not really noticeable when viewed as an army.  In a recent game night no one noticed that some models were much larger than others thanks to there being 43 of them.  Now think of how many more power armor guys are out there for blurring the size difference of old metal guys (if you have any), old plastic or resin models, and new plastics.

[Marshal Rohr]

The simplest but most time consuming method is to use plasticard spacers in the thighs and shins. 
 

Here is an older tutorial, with the caveat to only add 1mm to each leg and no plasticard to the waist to better match the new HH plastics. This works on old plastic mark 3 but requires extensive resculpting. For mark 3 I’d recommend the Anvils of Konor method since you have to use Green stuff either way. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BznvWBxnsSC/?igshid=ajA5ZG0zdjBnYm9h

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bzny_KHnwWL/?igshid=MWN5cHdoanp0ODd1bw==
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BznzJlEnVoY/?igshid=ejN4MzBvOTJwNzFh

Edited November 14, 2023 by Marshal Rohr

[Xenith]

So the FW HH models were already smaller than HH plastics (shrinkage?) and the new scale models are larger than hte old plastics, not just in height, but also bulk/volume.

 

You can make the old ones taller, but they'll end up like basketball players unless you make their calves and thighs thicker also - a reason man truescalers use terminator legs for their work.

 

Personally, it would be probably bets just to eat the scale change and have marines of different bulks, or sell off the old models, probably now at a premium and get the new ones. The amount of work it would take to volumetrically increase Mk2 is probably not worth it - you'd have to split the thighs and shins into quarters vertically add spacers between to increase volume, then resculpt all the detail. 

 

Alternatively, you can make them all a tiny bit taller with a blob of GS at the waist and neck. I've done this with my older marks and they look fine next to the new ones - check this post:

 

 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I remember readind something about of this, related to differences between First Born Astartes and Primaris  Astartes. The main problem is not to be bulkier or not, or taller. Is about the miniatures' body and anatomy when the model was sculpted .

I mean, more than make them more or less bukier, the real problem is to correct the anatomy. 

This is the article I was referring about:

 

https://www.betweenthebolterandme.com/2017/06/primaris-space-marines-first-impressions.html

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I think this paragraph explains a lot:

"At first glance, the Primaris Space Marines look a lot like normal Space Marines; they have the same general bulky armor, characteristic backpacks and domed shoulderpads. Upon a more careful look, it becomes clear that many subtle things were modified to improve virtually every aspect of the Space Marine aesthetic. The most evident difference between the Primaris and normal marines is their difference in height, with the Primaris marine standing a head or two taller than the marines we have had for years (they are very similar in size to the newer plastic Custodes, in fact). This would lead you to believe that, as a whole, the Primaris Marines are a lot larger than their predecessors. Surprisingly, this is not really the case, with most elements of the models being virtually the same size, including their helmets, backpacks, and shoulder pads. Even their breastplates and legs are only slightly bulkier and up-armored. Instead, the real difference, and what provides most of the size difference, is actually GW correcting a lot of the questionable anatomy of the previous Space Marines. Finally, after many years, Space Marines have suitable abdomens, instead of having their ribcages fused almost directly to their pelvises. More than any other change, I think this has had the most profound effect on creating a visually reasonable, yet compelling vision of a Space Marine. Additionally, height is added due to how the Primaris Marine’s legs are attached. Now they attach to the pelvis in a more logical and anatomical way, removing the massive “thigh-gap” seen on most Space Marines over the years."

 

Primaris and Heresy marines have similar stature, but second ones are First Born. So, instead of making them bulkier, in my opinion, first we need to correct them. And after correct see if we need or not to make them bulkier 

[Xenith]

^^ like that's all true, but that's all in the fluff, and we're taking about models.

 

You just need to look at the new marines v the old marines to see they have thicker thighs, thicker greaves, wider butt plates etc. they're not just taller marines, but volumetrically larger also. 

 

 

[Elzender]

For whatever it's worth, I have been converting older kits and mixing them up with new MkVI so that they are all roughly the same height. I have been using a mix of sources, from MkIII and IV, to classic firstborn kits and FW resin, but also Deathwatch, CSM and space marine heroes. 

 (Disclaimer: these minis are for a 40K project, hence the mix of 40K and HH-era armour marks). 

 

Upscaling the older sculpts is quite time-consuming, and I am not following a standard process as I am experimenting a bit with each miniature. 

 

Feel free to ask if there is any particular miniature that grabs your eye and I'll try to explain how I went about it. 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Elzender

[Elzender]

I also upscaled 5 MkIII last year, the process involved cutting off the belt to add one more plate ring to the abdomen, and then lengthening the thighs by adding approx. 1mm to it. As I did not feel confident to cut through the thigh, I was cutting right above the knee for resin legs and between leg and hip for plastic ones (which was easier as one leg os already separated at that level). 

 

 

[The Scorpion]

On 11/8/2023 at 9:18 AM, Grotsmasha said:

Here's the type of result you can get from plasticard spacers (old conversion, I whipped this up for a similar question a while back, I didn't have plasticard on hand and used an old 25mm base), using greenstuff in the waist would allow you to tidy up around the belt and get a cleaner finish.

 

also being a plastic model, I was able to buff the top half chest out too,

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair, most of the height difference comes from the squatting position (aka: missing pelvis). How do you reckon adding a tiny ball of greenstuff between the legs and torso would work for bulking up purposes?

[lansalt]

I think it depends on the armour mark. For the old MkIII, the long frontal armour allows padding the mid section and hiding the gap with pouches, holsters, etc.

For the old MkIV-VII marines, I think a better strategy is to cut their legs under the knees, pin them, and fill up the gap with green stuff like this image I stole from elsewhere:

 

Quote

 

I've yet to try it, but on paper it seems easier and solves the main issue of older kits with very short legs. Their height is the more noticeable difference between old and new kits.