mel_danes Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Frater I've got 2 Redemptor Dreadnoughts, a Ballistus Dreadnought, and 2 Warsuits. Looking at future purchases the Brutalis Dreadnought would round out the set, and it looks pretty damn cool. I'm not meta chasing, but I have options on new stuff with this latest release. I'm a slow builder so it's no rush. How does it perform for you? Is it a must have, and I'm stupid for waiting? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Feeling the model cool, then buy it, no problem. If you don't play competitive, your friends wouldn't have problem if you play it as redemptor(or other type of dreadnought which is good in meta), right? Lemondish, Wind Whistler and Paladin777 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 who cares if its hyper competitive? it doesn't suck and it looks awesome! I've personally not actually tried it yet, but as a blood angel player, it was a must have for them reasons alone DemonGSides, Ming the Merciless, Inquisitor_Lensoven and 3 others 1 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 I'm sure anything is must have at this point, but I think they're pretty decent. I think the MM and Talons are the way to go this edition. The Bolt Rifles just don't make up for the Profile options on the Talons. mel_danes 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Probably the best looking from the Redemptor-chassic line. Fun to use in game, definitely punches a lot more reliably than the Redemptor or the Invictor. I think a slight point drop will bring it in line with the standard Redemptor in a future update. 1 hour ago, Tacitus said: I'm sure anything is must have at this point, but I think they're pretty decent. I think the MM and Talons are the way to go this edition. The Bolt Rifles just don't make up for the Profile options on the Talons. I think the Talons are the inferior option. You only get a few extra, much weaker attacks, and the bolt rifles can basically deal that same additional damage at range. Iron Father Ferrum 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 I haven't tried mine yet but it does look cool. I have run the Death Company Dread and it did pretty well as a counter charge unit against Deep Striking Terminators so I am keen to give the Brutalis a go in the same role. The extra wounds and toughness over Firstborn Dreads should be good. Paladin777, Rhavien, mel_danes and 5 others 1 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Going back to the Talons - they certainly look a lot better! WrathOfTheLion and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraithwing Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 I've been running one alongside a Redemptor in my Space Wolves army. So far it has been a massive distraction carnifex. Hasn't done much, but has tanked so much firepower, everything else has been left unscathed! mel_danes 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 I'm about done painting one for my Iron Hands Storm detachment and I'm looking forward to trying it out on the field. I'm with OK on fists over talons; I'd rather clear light infantry with guns and land a big charge on something that deserves heavy punches than have to waste the Dreadnought's combat potential clearing those screens with the talon attacks. The guns and their casements are a little bulky, though, so visually the more streamlined talon set up definitely looks better. I personally would have put the guns inside the hands the way the old Contemptors did but I'm not in charge. unrealchamp88, Orange Knight and DemonGSides 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 I own two; one with talons and one with fists (both with MM). I think the fists are 'better' (especially in Firestorm when the bolters get Assault), but the talons look way better. I like 'em and I think they're fairly priced currently. They hit pretty hard (+1 A and Twin-Linked over a regular Redemptor is really noticeable), and combining their own impact hits with the tank shock-stratagem on the charge means you can open up with a solid number of Mortal Wounds on average, before you even start swinging. Iron Father Ferrum and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 I figure the thing is supposed to be fighting. The Talons are the same as the Fists in fight + a "sweep" option. If I'm shooting the bolters, I'm not using the Dread for what I want, and the Sweep Talons have an additional AP vs the Bolt Rifles. Lemondish and Dracos 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Tacitus said: I figure the thing is supposed to be fighting. The Talons are the same as the Fists in fight + a "sweep" option. If I'm shooting the bolters, I'm not using the Dread for what I want, and the Sweep Talons have an additional AP vs the Bolt Rifles. I dont think it's that simple: Since the Brutalis have more ranged weapons than the Bolt Rifles (a TL-MM and TL IHS is nothing to scoff at), so you probably dont want to run most of the time anyway (or you're using the Firestorm Detachment), so you're free to use the Bolt Rifles basically every turn. Those 4 TL AP1-shots from the Bolt Rifles can do quite a bit of work over the course of a game and can still do work while the Brutalis is engaged in close combat. Meanwhile, the sweep-profile of the talons is quite literally useless both outside of combat and if you opt to use the strike-profile in combat as well. The talons are "nice to have" if the Brutalis ends up against certain targets (basically the same kind of targets you want to use the Bolt Rifles on) and they look better for sure - but I'd say the Bolt Rifles are easily the "better" choice out of the two in most scenarios. Personally I think the Sweep-profile should be A12 instead of A10 to better balance the two loadouts but I'm not GW... Paladin777, Iron Father Ferrum, Karhedron and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 A unit I have looked at and considered. To be honest, it looks like a unit where going TLMM and Fists is the way to go. The Talons just don't have anything really extra that isn't added by the bolt-rifles. If the talons were better AP and damage in melee, (like damage 4 on smash, damage 2 on sweep) then they'd be far more comparable. As mentioned though, going for Tank Shock with Brutalis seems pretty nice. Could deal some serious damage even before getting to the punching part. Dracos, Cenobite Terminator and Paladin777 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) They absolutely wreck things, however the rule of "If you have one you have none" strongly applies to them. Edited November 10, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius Dracos and mel_danes 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 6 hours ago, chapter master 454 said: If the talons were better AP and damage in melee, (like damage 4 on smash, damage 2 on sweep) then they'd be far more comparable. The Talons are S7 Ap-2 vs the S4 Ap-1 of the bolt rifles so they are better. It is just a question of whether they are better enough. Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, Karhedron said: The Talons are S7 Ap-2 vs the S4 Ap-1 of the bolt rifles so they are better. It is just a question of whether they are better enough. They are better in a very narrow situation, but worse overall. The Bolt Rifles are also twin linked so they will reliably wound the ideal target of such a weapon. They can be used at range against targets the Brutalis might not even be about to engage. They can also be used whilst the Dread is in combat, and doing so would not sacrifice the quality attacks from the Fists. Iron Father Ferrum 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 8 hours ago, Karhedron said: The Talons are S7 Ap-2 vs the S4 Ap-1 of the bolt rifles so they are better. It is just a question of whether they are better enough. Last I checked, Brutalis arms don't reach 24" my guy XD They ain't mister fantastic and if you are using a brutalis dread on chaff infantry as their primary objective might be over-paying for a solution there. Won't argue looks, personally I prefer the bulky look of the fists but I can see the draw of the talons, they have that nice slasher look that conjures images of viseral gore. However, I am also a fan of images relating to a dreadnought picking up infantry and just letting loose with it's guns at point blank. "Want to see what a Multi-Melta does at point blank to your face? It will clear up that facial condition of yours!" Paladin777, Iron Father Ferrum and Lemondish 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 8 hours ago, chapter master 454 said: Last I checked, Brutalis arms don't reach 24" my guy XD They ain't mister fantastic and if you are using a brutalis dread on chaff infantry as their primary objective might be over-paying for a solution there. Won't argue looks, personally I prefer the bulky look of the fists but I can see the draw of the talons, they have that nice slasher look that conjures images of viseral gore. However, I am also a fan of images relating to a dreadnought picking up infantry and just letting loose with it's guns at point blank. "Want to see what a Multi-Melta does at point blank to your face? It will clear up that facial condition of yours!" S7 AP-2 isn't chaff infantry. Its BGV equivalent stuff. Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) Against bgv the strike profile is better anyway. Without buffs the sweep profile only causes 2.96 failed saves on average at damage 1, barely killing a BGV The strike causes 1.94 failed saves at damage 3, which is almost two dead BGV's. So the strike profile is twice as effective. Even against regular marines the sweep profile does 3.95 failed saves and the strike does 2.6 failed saves. Meaning the sweep barely kills 2, and the strike will kill either 2 or 3 (and 60% of the time it will be 3). so yeah, the sweep profile is indeed anti-chaff. Edited November 11, 2023 by Paladin777 chapter master 454, Karhedron and Iron Father Ferrum 1 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhavien Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 Are we really talking about four S4 boltrifle shots? It's nothing I would worry about if pointed at my guys. Sure, they can cause a wound here and there, but are hardly a selling argument. However as I like the look of the fists better I take them anyway However you can't always choose what is engaging you and the sweeping profile could come in handy if someone threw some GEQ chaf at your dread in cc. Karhedron and Spyros 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 While I agree that the Bolt Rifles probably have the edge, I think that the difference is sufficiently small not to lose too much sleep over. ValourousHeart, Cenobite Terminator, Paladin777 and 2 others 4 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyslugger Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 I've built mine with talons and TLMM cause...well to me it looks cool and I'm lucky that we don't adhere to WYSIWYG strictly. DemonGSides, Karhedron, Helias_Tancred and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 The local RTT's that have started up are wysiwyg on most things. The brutalis would be one of those. I'll get one and probably get it painted by the end of 2024! XD Rhavien, happyslugger and Helias_Tancred 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyslugger Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 Ah, luckily I don't play competition or tournament scene. mel_danes, Cenobite Terminator, DemonGSides and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 Brutalist reminds me of a super-sized Aggressor. mel_danes, Iron Father Ferrum, Paladin777 and 2 others 2 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381587-brutalis-dread-thoughts/#findComment-6001729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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