SoS + Custodes LoW

[Arvus Lighter]

Hi All,

 

I have two questions both relating to the definitions of ‘factions’, ‘sub-factions’ and ‘allies’:

1) Can Sisters of Silence primary detachment take a Custodes LoW?

2) Can SoS start the game on or embark onto a friendly Custodes transport?

 

SoS and Custodes are both of the same faction, but have different sub-factions. 

[Noserenda]

You can always take any LoW even if they are different factions, the LoW detachment is separate to the main one so does not need to be anything but the same allegiance.

The Talons cant ride on each others transports though afaik, same as Iron Warriors and Alpha legion cant in the same situation. 

[Arvus Lighter]

Intuitively I would agree!

 

However, I see that the wording for the transport restriction depends on units being allies: "Not even Sworn Brothers can embark in allied Transport Vehicles".

What defines an ally is this: "all units not part of the same Faction as the Primary Detachment are considered ‘allied’".

Also, the allies matrix only kicks in on the condition: "two or more Factions amongst its Detachments". 

 

So then it comes down to - are SoS and Custodes a different 'Faction'?

In the Liber Imperium on page 7 the table shows them having the same 'Faction', Agents of the Emperor, which is backed up on page 16 for Custodes saying "this army list is considered to be Agents of the Emperor Faction".

 

Regarding Space Marines, the rulebook says: "Each of the eighteen Space Marine Legions forms a single Faction, each differentiated by the version of the Legiones Astartes special rule that units of that Faction possess", so this confirms your example, Noserenda, for Iron Warriors and Alpha legion.

 

So it seems that SoS and Custodes can share transports (same for Solar Auxilia and Imperialis Militia!).

 

BUT, it also results in them not being able to take each other as allied detachments because an allied detachment "must always be of a different Faction than the player’s Primary Detachment". They can take each other's LoW choices though.

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Arvus Lighter
Clarification.

[Noserenda]

But they arent the same faction are they? If you cant share a FOC you cant share a transport is probably the easier way to look at it. Rather than trying to tie semantic knots, really the only use of the Agents of the Emperor faction in these cases is for the purpose of allies so they dont need to make an even bigger table with all the various Talons, Mechanicum and Imperial army forces when they dont really benefit from it.

[Arvus Lighter]

On 11/12/2023 at 12:53 AM, Noserenda said:

But they arent the same faction are they?

They are the same Faction. Thats the tricky point.

'Allies' only governs interactions between different Factions.

Figuring out the original intention of rules is always going to be tricky. I can see arguments for and against it being this way.

 

RaW I see that:

• Within the same Faction you can use each other's transports, but...
• Custodes can't have an allied detachment of SoS, and vice versa.
• Solar Auxilia can't have an allied detachment of Imperialis Militia/Warp Cults, and vice versa.
• Taghmata Omnissiah can't have an allied detachment of Questoris Household/Titan Legions, and vice versa.*

*The last paragraph of p10 of Liber Mechanicum explicitly backs this up.