Your Dream "Black Templar Style" Range Refresh

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

Hi Guys,

 

At the time of writing this, the new Dark Angels stuff has not yet been revealed so Black Templars remain the "Gold Standard" for divergent Chapter unique sculpts. I want to foreword my thoughts on the matter with everyhting I've written here has absolutley no time scale and could take years - even decades - to come to fruition. So, here's my blue sky hopes for the future of the Blood Angels range:

 

Commander Dante	Updated Model Done
Chief Librarian Mephiston	Updated Model Done
Lieutenant Tolmeron	Bring back into circulation
High Chaplain Astorath	Updated Model
Sanguinary High Priest Brother Corbulo	Updated Model
Sanguinary Priest	Updated Model (Jump Pack Build Option?)
Captain Tycho	Retire, Replace with Golden Captain Antargo
Tycho The Lost	Retire
Lemartes	Retire
The Sanguinor	Updated Model – Primarch Level Centre Piece
Sanguinary Guard	Updated Kit
Death Company Marines	Updated Kit – Based on Jump AI
Death Company Intercessors	Retire – DC Pads on BA Upgrade Sprue
Baal Predator	Retire – Flamestorm Cannon and Heavy Flamers on Vehicle upgrade sprue for Gladiator
Furioso Dreadnought	Retire – Lives on in BA Brutalis 3in1 Kit
Death Company Dreadnought	Retire – Build Option in BA Brutalis 3in1 Kit
Librarian Dreadnought	Retire – Build Option in BA Brutalis 3in1 Kit
Blood Angels Terminator Captain	Already Retired, Replace With Captain Karlean

 

Blood Angels Upgrade Sprue	Chapter Symbol Pads, DC Pads, Heads/Helmets, BA Power Sword(s), Inferno Pistol, 2-5 BA Iconography Power Packs, 2-5 BA Tilting Shields, 1+ Intercessor Chest Piece (nips + abs), Back Pack Flags, Loincloths, Hand Holding Grail.
Blood Angels Terminator Upgrade Sprue	Chapter Symbol Pads, Heads/Helmets, Chests
Blood Angels Vehicle Upgrade Sprue	Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Flamers for Gladiator, Doors for Repulsor, Large Sculpted Pieces for flat surfaces.

 

Okay ripping the plaster/band-aid off - I think Lemartes should be retired. I can't see a way they can write him crossing the Rubicon that wouldn't be just bad lore. If it's possible, I'm more than happy to have him cross, I just don't think it is. Let Astorath have bigger DC buffs. As an aside, I actually think there'll be a generic Jump Pack Chaplain. Next plaster (though this one is surly easier to swallow), Tycho. He's dead, let him die. The current 3rd Company Captain is Antargo who is in Darkness in the Blood (he actually does stuff) and hes  a Primaris, make him a model and make him gold! An easy successor in my opinion. The rest I think speaks for itself, let our new Terminator Captain actually be Karlean like he was when the og model came out.

 

For 10th, every faction is getting a new model with their release, I'd love ours to be a sanghuinary priest, who will actually get a Jump Pack build option.

 

What are your thoughts guys? Do you think Lemartes should cross the Rubicon? Should we also get a Blood Angels Intercessor Squad as a successor to the holy grail that was the Blood Angels Tactical Squad?

Edited November 17, 2023 by ChapterMasterGodfrey
typo

[DemonGSides]

I legit love your entire list, except Lemartes.

 

Hit him with the Castellan style update where it's not primaris sized but bigger than the old sculpt, but otherwise keep him pretty much exactly the same. That would work for Lore and for tabletop.

 

His current model is so cool, but is just a bit too busy for it's size. It's intimidating to paint.  No need to get rid of him tho, when we can just look back to the BT refresh where there were some characters that didn't automatically become Primaris. 

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

8 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

I legit love your entire list, except Lemartes.

 

Hit him with the Castellan style update where it's not primaris sized but bigger than the old sculpt, but otherwise keep him pretty much exactly the same. That would work for Lore and for tabletop.

 

His current model is so cool, but is just a bit too busy for it's size. It's intimidating to paint.  No need to get rid of him tho, when we can just look back to the BT refresh where there were some characters that didn't automatically become Primaris. 

Thank you, Brother! 
 

You know, I found Lemartes to be a head scratcher because, for me, I like definitive lore. I’m not sure I could cope not knowing if he was Primaris or not. I know that’s a little silly.

[Blindhamster]

Personally, I’d be fine with no bespoke death company kit,  it instead a really good upgrade set that has:

- 10 blood angel chapter pads like the current ones

- 5 chapter pads with the trim like assault intercessors have

- 6 gravis pads

- some more regular blood drop pads

- some unique blood angel melee weapons (as in, poise sword with winged blood drop hilts etc)

- little gubbins

- at least 5 blood angel style bare heads

- blood angels helmets

- representations of artefacts 

- a backpack and or blood angel jump pack 

 

imo, death company have never really needed a distinct kit, just the appropriate paint job. I recognise that a molded cross is easier to paint, but lore wise it shouldn’t be molded.

[DemonGSides]

59 minutes ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

Thank you, Brother! 
 

You know, I found Lemartes to be a head scratcher because, for me, I like definitive lore. I’m not sure I could cope not knowing if he was Primaris or not. I know that’s a little silly.

I think the lore could be definitive, I meant more towards the size of Lemartes in comparison to a Primaris Chaplain; like the new Castellan Model, he's BASICALLY the same size but is first born. Primaris shouldn't imply a 3 foot difference like it currently does due to old marine scales being really, really bad. 

[Tokugawa]

Before the release, even most optimistic BT players just assumed their 3 named heroes get updated. Generic no-named HQ was quite possible just like any random "primaris lieutenant" but not high priority on wishlist. 

 

However, GW released 6 BT characters products, 150~200% of expectations. Since character models got price raised multiple times, a single walking infantry character could be £25 today. GW won't let this easy money slip away. 

[happyslugger]

I can live with the current range of generic primaris marines for things like intercessors, hell blasters and such.  I am not even worried about chapter specific shoulder pads for them.  I can live with the current range being generic with just paint and decals (heck I don't even bother with decals).

 

What I would like to see is chapter specific terminators (especially assault), new SG, new DC jump pack marines, new libby dread, and the above mentioned characters.  I also want to see the Sanguinor get the primarch treatment with a similar scale model to girlyman and the lion, with similar stats.  I am not really keen for our primarch to return, but let's face it, if he does we will all buy the model LOL.  

 

I think baal pred and things like that can be covered to some degree by the existing range of new tanks, perhaps an extra weapon sprue.

[Paladin777]

The sanguinor getting the primarch treatment would be sick, but I'd be happy with it just being at the same level as a Deamon Prince or Hive Tyrant.  
 

Still, that's probably the only kit I would go for anytime soon... well, I guess I might go for a Baal Pred (or Baal Gladiator) if they do that, a Dreadnaught or two if they discontinue the BA specific boxnaughts (T.T). 

 

i can't imagine them not releasing either a jump DC or SG kit (or both), but I don't think I'd get either of those because I'm a cheap b@stard. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Paladin777

[Blindhamster]

My prediction is:
- we lose our unique dreads entirely, rule wise we may get death company dread covered by the brutalis, maybe.

- sanguinary guard get replaced with a new kit, that's probably more like the company heroes, they will be a smaller unit, each with more wounds and very clearly setup to be Dante's retinue.

- death company kit goes away in its current form, BUT we get a pretty good upgrade kit that lets us make assault intercessors, intercessors or jump asssault intercessors into death company

- sanguinary priest gets a new kit as a dual build for corbulo

- baal predator goes away, its spiritual successor is the gladiator reaper.

- new generic jump pack chaplain kit

- new astorath model

- new sanguinor model that is our large scale model, it wont be primarch power level despite being a centerpiece model

- tycho will go

- lemartes may go

- karlean will go

 

essentially, when all is said and done, I think we'll have one unique unit kit

• sanguinary guard

and a number of characters

• dante, mephiston, corbulo/sanguinary priest, astorath, sanguinor

and a slightly better upgrade kit than we have now that provides the ability to do death company and bling up other units.

 

BUT WE WON'T GET ALL THAT IN ONE GO

 

I think this edition, we'll get our codex supplement christmas 2024, and we'll see most of the things I said will go, get lost at that point. But we'll get the priest/corbulo kit at that point too, jump chaplain may come at that point as well.

 

rumour had it that death company may come in kill team, I think it'll be the upgrade kit side of a boxed set, rather than a totally new kit.

 

I think we'll have to wait till 11th to maybe get astorath, sanguinor and sanguinary guard and an actual BT blood angel upgrade kit if one ever comes.

[WrathOfTheLion]

A new Gabriel Seth would be nice too :)

 

I'd like to see a new decal sheet with any release, which should include a successor chapter, like the Flesh Tearers.

Edited November 19, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Blindhamster]

4 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

A new Gabriel Seth would be nice too :)

 

I'd like to see a new decal sheet with any release, which should include a successor chapter, like the Flesh Tearers.

 

forgot about Seth, yeah I think we'll see a new Seth, in fact I could even see that being the single "blood angel" model when the supplement drops and having to wait longer for the priest maybe.

[Arkangilos]

I would rather Astorath be gotten rid of and Lemartes become the big chaplain like he was in 3rd. 

[Warden-Paints]

Primaris Astorath on a beautiful scenic base like Helbrecht! 

I want a dedicated Blood Angels Terminator kit, new Sanguinary Guard and I absolutely want a new Death Company kit with all the options. I want DC to have hyper aggressive dynamic poses, tearing forward towards the nearest bad / poor Imperial Guardsman who took a wrong turn. An upgrade sprue would be disservice in my opinion.

[Blindhamster]

21 hours ago, Arkangilos said:

I would rather Astorath be gotten rid of and Lemartes become the big chaplain like he was in 3rd. 

both characters stories have progressed too far for that I think.

[Adorondak]

What I really want to see would be a new primaris sanguinary guard kit, but I'd like to see a bunch of extra bits included on the sprue so that we could make a primaris sanguinary priest (with or without JP), as well as maybe a jump lieutenant and a jump chaplain as well.

 

I mean, if they did that right, this could be the biggest selling single unit box they ever made, if they made the unit size 3-6 and sold them 3 to a box just about every ba player I know would by 4 boxes immediately, if they added the bits for those three characters they'd all buy an extra 2 boxes, and if they put in optional generic chest plates so you could build a jump lieutenant, jump chaplain and jump apothecary for any chapter I think just about everybody would buy 1.

 

But of course, all that will never happen...

[Rhavien]

If GW would make such a box it would cost a fortune. You would pay for three potential characters even if you just want to build sang guard. As cool as it sounds it's not doable with GWs business model. 

[Blindhamster]

But getting the option to make a jump lieutenant model via it seems more doable.

 

i think sanguinary guard will change anyway and work more like company heroes, with it being 4 models, one with banner, a champion and two dudes

[Karhedron]

4 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

i think sanguinary guard will change anyway and work more like company heroes, with it being 4 models, one with banner, a champion and two dudes

 

I think Company Heroes are 4 strong so you can add a Captain, an Lt andstill fit them in an Impulsor. Transport is not an issue for SG so I hope we keep larger squads. Getting more than 2W would be nice though. They always used to be on par with Termies.

[Helias_Tancred]

I agree with all of it except retiring Lemartes. With good writing Lemartes crossing the Rubicon primaris would even make his unique personal story even MORE epic! Thats what I would prefer happen. 

 

 

[Tokugawa]

Detail of rules shouldn't be concern at current q4 2023 time. It can easily be buffed and nerfed in future.

Box content should be. Once locked, the rules options would be possibly tied to this in the next 10+ years. e.g. If one box contain 3 models then the max unit size would be 6.

[Blindhamster]

10 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Detail of rules shouldn't be concern at current q4 2023 time. It can easily be buffed and nerfed in future.

Box content should be. Once locked, the rules options would be possibly tied to this in the next 10+ years. e.g. If one box contain 3 models then the max unit size would be 6.

IMO I don't think that would be a bad thing.

I have always disliked armies with huge numbers of sanguinary guard, there were literally 29 in the chapter before devastation of baal, yet lists ran more than that. Post devastation of baal there was just 1 member IIRC, though of course new members will have been added.

 

I've always felt like their role was kind of messed up on the tabletop, they're closer now with them having things tied to the warlord.

 

so yeah a 3-6 or a straight up 4 man unit alongside a unique muscle armoured BA jump captain would be my go to for models.

I'd like to see them have more individuality and character like the company heroes as they're essentially our version of the chapter heroes upgrade to company heroes.

- an ancient carrying the shrowd of sanguinius

- a champion type

- 2 "regular" guys would would suit me nicely

part wise, give them all unique BA style bare heads, have the regular guys be a dude with a fist and a dude with some other kind of melee weapon, have the champion have a fancy sword, have them all with the wrist mounted bolters still. give them some alternative chest plates etc. Plus, as I said a unique captain model for BA and I think it'd be a great kit.

[DemonGSides]

As long as they continue to have cool helmets I could deal with that. Do not want helmetless. Yuck. 

[Blindhamster]

Thats fair, I like a mix of head options, one of my favourite things about primaris kits is that a lot of them have a 1:1 ratio of bare heads to models in the kit. If you like painting faces (I do), this is amazing for personality in the army and avoiding duplicates.

 

For Sanguinary guard I can see the arguement either way honestly, but it just seems like a nice unit to get some noble looking blood angels heads (where I'd expect a death company style kit to have more in rage filled expressions)

[Karhedron]

I like a bit of variety when it comes to helmets. I like some conventional but ornate versions of normal armour marks, some death masks and some bare heads. That then leaves a few over for character conversions, sergeants etc. It is funny but when I am converting a model, I often try out a few different heads to see which one feels right.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Karhedron

[DemonGSides]

Don't get me wrong, some helmetless guys here and there is fine.

 

But Sanguinary Guard are bodyguards and they should probably stay armored up fully, especially on the table lol. Having your captain or an LT with a helmetless head is one thing. An entire bodyguard unit eschewing brain protection feels like a bad idea.

 

Obviously do you, but I wouldn't want ONLY helmetless options, same as I wouldn't want ONLY helmeted options.