Codex wishlist

[TheArtilleryman]

29 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Yeah idk, about even that much.

just make him an ever so slightly, but notably more effective warrior than a sgt.

He has more attacks and an invulnerable save …

 

I would like to see Commissar Cain. Special rules:

 

Expert Swordsman: enemy models suffer -1 to hit in close combat

Hero of the Imperium: friendly units within 12” add +1 to all hit rolls

 

and Jurgen:

 

Blank: psykers within 6” cannot use powers 

Reckless driving: if this character is embarked within a transport, add 6” to that transport’s move characteristic 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

29 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

He has more attacks and an invulnerable save …

 

I would like to see Commissar Cain. Special rules:

 

Expert Swordsman: enemy models suffer -1 to hit in close combat

Hero of the Imperium: friendly units within 12” add +1 to all hit rolls

 

and Jurgen:

 

Blank: psykers within 6” cannot use powers 

Reckless driving: if this character is embarked within a transport, add 6” to that transport’s move characteristic 

Give both a chainsword and they both get 3 attacks.

[TheArtilleryman]

7 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Give both a chainsword and they both get 3 attacks.

Commissar has better weapon skill and 4 chainsword/3 power sword attacks, an invulnerable save and 3 wounds … that’s much better than a Sergeant.

 

I don’t get why they can’t be attached to a command squad anymore though. 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by TheArtilleryman

[SteveAntilles]

7 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

I don’t get why they can’t be attached to a command squad anymore though. 

 

Because command squads attach to other squads that commissars can also attach to?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Also I think there needs to be some sort of reckoning in regards to scions and Kasrkin.

 

scions are technically a sub faction, but their options are so limited you can’t even call them a full subfaction, and now they and Kasrkin fill the same niche in nearly identical ways.

 

personally I’d move the scions over to an ‘agents’ codex, and build out a few more options for them there.

[sairence]

Scions and Kasrkin don't fill the same niche at all, beyond both being a more elite unit with better equipment. 

 

Scions, in the context of the Guard, are rapid insertion special forces. They're our stand in for paratroopers of whatever flavour you like. Thanks to having deepstrike they have basically unlimited flexibility in where you go with them, and they're absolutely defined by that ability, more than anything else. Whether it's to deal damage, or score objectives, it's all about that deepstrike ability.

 

Kasrkin, in the rules they've gotten since the new kit was released, behave more like elite line troops that still have to footslog (more likely drive) to where they want to go, but will do heinous damage when/if they get there, usually much better than Scions are capable off. They're just not as flexible in terms of getting there.

 

That's your trade off between. Do you want flexibilty and mobilty, or do you really want to spike some damage? 

 

And that's just as true in our 10th ed index as it was in our 8th ed codex. Barring Kasrkin getting deepstrike, which I highly doubt will happen precisely because Scions already exist in that slot, they simply don't fill the same role in our army, regardless of surface similarities.

Edited December 2, 2023 by sairence
Various typos

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

39 minutes ago, sairence said:

Scions and Kasrkin don't fill the same niche at all, beyond both being a more elite unit with better equipment. 

 

Scions, in the context of the Guard, are rapid insertion special forces. They're our stand in for paratroopers of whatever flavour you like. Thanks to having deepstrike they have basically unlimited flexibility in where you go with them, and they're absolutely defined by that ability, more than anything else. Whether it's to deal damage, or score objectives, it's all about that deepstrike ability.

 

Kasrkin, in the rules they've gotten since the new kit was released, behave more like elite line troops that still have to footslog (more likely drive) to where they want to go, but will do heinous damage when/if they get there, usually much better than Scions are capable off. They're just not as flexible in terms of getting there.

 

That's your trade off between. Do you want flexibilty and mobilty, or do you really want to spike some damage? 

 

And that's just as true in our 10th ed index as it was in our 8th ed codex. Barring Kasrkin getting deepstrike, which I highly doubt will happen precisely because Scions already exist in that slot, they simply don't fill the same role in our army, regardless of surface similarities.

And put Kasrkin in a valk and there’s not really any difference.

 

id have to go back into older codexes, but I’m pretty sure Kasrkin used to have deep strike. Them not having it now seems like it’s only to actually have a way to separate them from scions.

 

also, snipers and EOD/demo experts aren’t front line troops, they’re typically special forces…scions might be closer to SEALs while Kasrkin are more like rangers. 
 

they fill the same niche, elite troopers that get extra special/heavy weapons, in improved armor…one deep strikes and one doesn’t, that doesn’t mean they fill different niches in game, especially since people have been regularly bringing them in from reserves meaning the differences between the two on tabletop are even less noticeable, when both are showing up in the enemy’s backfield.

 

edit

cant find the codex where they first used the Kasrkin title, but I have the one where the Kasrkin models were first used under the storm trooper title, and they had both deep strike and infiltrate.

 

so yeah the only reason Kasrkin don’t have deep strike is to make some sort of difference. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Newbiticus]

When Kasrkin were originally introduced they used the Stormtrooper (now scion) Datasheet but did not have infiltrate or deep strike.  They were classified as “grenadiers”.

 

I would love to see 3.5 edition rules like drop troops or light infantry.  I expect the detachments will have similar flavour.  
 

Maybe give command squads and heavy wep squads Lone Op or a “lone op light” when in proximity to infantry to make them a little more survivable.

 

I personally don’t like Lord Solar and resent the fact that he is essentially required to make the army work.  

[Newbiticus]

Oh, and can I get my harden veterans back?  Not happening I know but HVs are too lightly armoured to pass as Kasrkin in a serious setting.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Newbiticus said:

When Kasrkin were originally introduced they used the Stormtrooper (now scion) Datasheet but did not have infiltrate or deep strike.  They were classified as “grenadiers”.

 

I would love to see 3.5 edition rules like drop troops or light infantry.  I expect the detachments will have similar flavour.  
 

Maybe give command squads and heavy wep squads Lone Op or a “lone op light” when in proximity to infantry to make them a little more survivable.

 

I personally don’t like Lord Solar and resent the fact that he is essentially required to make the army work.  

I mean they did previously have infiltrate. If you’d like I can upload a picture of the datasheet from the codex.

[Marshall Bretton]

I mean one key difference between the two in the game is that you can have 6 squads of scions if you use a prime as your warlord while you are capped at 3 for kasrkin.

 

No idea if that is competitive but for a fluff based army like mine it's amazing. The kasrkin models are much nicer imo though so I use them for all 9 squads (because I also take the max kasrkin squads I can)

[brother_b]

To have it longer than 6 months before inevitable edition reset.

 

Build your own style regiments so we can represent Tallarn, Mordía, etc.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Gaius Maximus said:

I mean one key difference between the two in the game is that you can have 6 squads of scions if you use a prime as your warlord while you are capped at 3 for kasrkin.

 

No idea if that is competitive but for a fluff based army like mine it's amazing. The kasrkin models are much nicer imo though so I use them for all 9 squads (because I also take the max kasrkin squads I can)

I’m hoping the new codex has a detachment option that replicates the old grenadiers option.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I kinda hope we get a bit more of a distinction between heavy medium and light infantry and a better distinction between scions and Kasrkin.

 

not sure how to make the differences.

 

for kasrkin and scions, I think making one more durable.

 

like 2W and more attacks in melee on scions, and all kasrkin guns get assault and all but flamers get rapid fire 2

Edited March 11 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[TheArtilleryman]

13 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I kinda hope we get a bit more of a distinction between heavy medium and light infantry and a better distinction between scions and Kasrkin.

 

not sure how to make the differences.

 

for kasrkin and scions, I think making one more durable.

 

like 2W and more attacks in melee on scions, and all kasrkin guns get assault and all but flamers get rapid fire 2

This would work apart from the 2 wounds. Maybe just one wound but a 6+ FNP?

[Emperor Ming]

I think at this point, I would go with a simpler wishlist

 

Like a codex before 11th

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

I think at this point, I would go with a simpler wishlist

 

Like a codex before 11th

Don’t worry we’ll be getting it exactly 6 days before 11th is announced 

[TheArtilleryman]

10 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Don’t worry we’ll be getting it exactly 6 days before 11th is announced 

And half your army will become invalid 

[casb1965]

12 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

And half your army will become invalid 

 

No it'll make it a top tier army, for those 6 days, then when 11th drops it sinks straight back down and you wait another 2 years for a decent Codex.

[Galron]

Both of you are wrong. It will be a top tier army for 6 days until it gets nerfed by a balance slate and then 11th will nerf it into the ground the next week.

 

I would like to see Heavy weapons teams be 1 per 20 man infantry(whichever) squad and have them tied to that or simply make them battleline. It is rough for all infantry armies to field enough AT and still stay pure to the all infantry thing.

 

I second the return of 3.5 doctrine style detachments. I would love to see an Elysian or Warhawk style airborne army return along with the new Dune buggy models they took from us but somehow gave to gangs on Necromunda. 

[TheArtilleryman]

30 minutes ago, Galron said:

Both of you are wrong. It will be a top tier army for 6 days until it gets nerfed by a balance slate and then 11th will nerf it into the ground the next week.

 

I would like to see Heavy weapons teams be 1 per 20 man infantry(whichever) squad and have them tied to that or simply make them battleline. It is rough for all infantry armies to field enough AT and still stay pure to the all infantry thing.

 

I second the return of 3.5 doctrine style detachments. I would love to see an Elysian or Warhawk style airborne army return along with the new Dune buggy models they took from us but somehow gave to gangs on Necromunda. 

Please don’t make them 1 per 20; I’ve got mine at 1 per 10

[Guest Triszin]

Scions

Exo suit for scions (edge of tomorrow)

Scion drop ship

Scion hq

 

Most of what I want probably will never happen

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

So, inspired by the ork rokkit launcha 

 

I’d like to see the grenade launcher get a similar singular profile
BS4+ Ad3 S9 AP-1 D2 <assault><blast>

while the missile launcher gets a slight buff of 

BS4+ 

frag A d6+1 S4 AP0 D1 <blast> <heavy>

krak A1  S11 AP-2 D3 <heavy>

 

Feels fairly balanced 

krak becomes a true AT weapon rather than only useful against light vehicles.

 

grenade launcher becomes a decent all round weapon, I’m not married to the blast keyword being included, but seems nice to have.