Board Control - How do your Guard hold the Line?

[Strasgard]

Hello everyone, 

 

Basically the title - how are you holding objectives with guard? 
 

I’ve been attempting wave tactics, throwing 20-40 bodies on an objective at a time to no avail (~80 bodies in my list). 
 

Now this is a lot of CSM and melee in general in my local meta, but still there must be a way to score on the primary. 
 

Thoughts?

 

Generalized list: 

Lord Solar

Creed

Cadian CS

Techpriest

Infantry squads x4 ( 2 Krieg, 2 Cadian)

Kasrkin x2 

Bullgryns (only 3 due to models)

Rough riders (5)

Rogal Dorn w Oppressor x2 (all melta + Pulverizer)

Leman Russ Demolishers x2

Scout sentinel x1 (due to models)

 

Models I could be using:

Limitless Leman Russes

~140 more guardsmen of various regiments

2 command squads

3 Baneblades (various variants possible)

3 basilisks 

 

 

 

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Personally I’d replace the dorns with chimeras for the infantry and more infantry.

 

with a chimera and an infantry squad you can have a heavy weapon and a special weapon shooting out along side the chimera’s guns.

keep the squad out of LoS behind the chimera and the enemy first has to kill that before they can start trying to take or contest the objective from you.

 

in guard it has generally seemed that you have to more or less commit to either infantry or tanks to be competitive and 80 infantry isn’t enough with only 4 tanks.

 

and please don’t use the phrase infantry squad to refer to kreig and CSTs since there’s an actual unit called infantry squad, it could cause confusion.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[sairence]

There's a few different ways you can go about it, but pretty much anything currently requires a degree of skewing, especially into the top armies like CSM and Eldar. 3D is kinda mandatory, so you have a chance to deal with Chosen and Wraithguard effectively, Scout-moving units help a great deal to try and limit an opponents movement.

 

For me, that currently means Manticores and Dorns* for the damage, with Catachan Chimeras and/or Sentinels to move out. If I can disembark one of them early to try for a charge to block my opponent that's always great. Beyond that it's all about force concentration and not throwing too many things forward too quickly. Because even 6 Chimeras full of infantry can easily be killed in the first two turns, if you commit them too fast. So it's less about your overall numbers and more about how good you are at rationing.

 

Keep in mind that you don't need to hold all the objectives all the time. If you can stop your opponent from holding them by continually taking them away, neither of you scores quick primary and you can try to bleed them out and get ahead later. And if you play it right, force your opponent to commit expensive stuff to clear chaff, you can win that in the long run. So often enough throwing a single unit on to contest it, without expecting to hold it on your next turn, can be enough early on.

 

*the Dorns can definitely be replaced by some Russes, there's a bit of personal preference there I'd say. Though the Dorn is pretty efficient and will last a good deal longer than a Russ. Demolishers, Exterminators are good, Executioners can also have a place. But my personal take is, if the main gun can't reliably deal at least 3 damage a pop, you'll struggle to do meaningful damage in the current state of the game. 

[TheArtilleryman]

“80 infantry and 4 tanks isn’t enough …”

 

Looks at his 78 infantry and 5 tanks and hopes it is enough …

 

Currently I have:

 

5 x 10-man infantry squad with missile launchers and grenade launchers 

1 x Kasrkin squad

2 x heavy weapon squads (lascannons and autocannons)

5 x ratlings

2 x platoon command squads

1 x castellan

1 x demolisher tank commander

1 x normal leman russ

2 x leman russ executioner

1 x hellhound

 

plus an inquisitor (warlord) and Vindicare assassin as allies. 

 

I have about 165 points left to make it a 2k point list and was considering getting a basilisk for another piece of armour. Unfortunately these are all my models so they are all I have to work with.

 

@OP I love the line “Limitless Leman Russes” … makes my eyes glaze over a little :)

[Strasgard]

Thank you every for the suggestions!

 

It sounds like I have some experimenting to do, I think I’ll give a try with mechanized guard - will have to pick up some chimeras! (Been meaning too for a while)

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I’m still trying to find time and opponents, but my plan is rush a pair of tauroxes with <scout> units up one side of the board or the center, chimeras moving up the other side(s). Using the transports to block/screen the infantry on objectives, and russes to force my enemy to decide where to focus their high S weapons. Clearing out the transports, so they can get to the objectives/infantry behind them, or take out the russes. So they’re not just raining hate down on them the whole game.

[Cadian Bandstand]

I tend to find if I'm too aggressive and push up with the guard then I get mulched. I have however had really good success by being ultra cautious initially and blow the enemy off the objectives with my heavy weaponry. I then rely strongly on deepstriking 5 man squads of Scions, rough riders and a mechanised cadian squad to grab cleared objectives. Clear and grab. I know whatever I put on those objectives doesn't last long

 

I tend to find I start slow then ramp up in the later game, as long as I protect the fast units!

[Dr. Clock]

2 hours ago, Cadian Bandstand said:

Clear and grab.

Emphasis on clear first for sure. It can be tempting to go tag all midfield objectives turn 1, but I'd recommend accepting that you'll go down on primary turn 2 so that you give your guns time to take effect. I also find a center denial strategy to be pretty good for guard. Most 'bully list' players will go hard on centre, and in many cases they want you to challenge them there. Instead, make the center your kill box in turns 1-3, and focus on flank objective scoring. Nobody really has enough resources to have multiple waves on 3 objectives throughout a game, so a list based on long range and squishy scoring is best off just conceding at least a couple objectives (center and enemy home) to the enemy at least until the ranged options take effect.

 

80 bodies is about right, but I'd also suggest using at least 2 blocks of 20 rather than running only in 10s. Then 2-3 chimeras with cheap squads inside are definitely nice little runaround assets with good OC, you just need to avoid throwing them all away too early. Ideal picture for them is assaulting the last 1 or 2 enemies on an objective in turn 2 to try get points in turn 3. Then it's really just 'whatever big guns you like best' to make sure that you can actually hold back the tides - double Dorn plus double demolisher seems like plenty, but 2 basilisks instead of 1 Dorn will give you some indirect play and let you corner camp / screen backline a bit better while Dorn and Demos storm forward. 

 

TL;DR - if you aim for your 'first wave' to connect with objectives in turn 2 rather than turn 1 then you can get and keep more momentum later on.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.