How many points do you spend in HQ?

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I was thinking about HQ options for my army lists and I thought to my self if I spent too much (or too less) in my HQs. Specially in the case of Praetors.

I like to include always, if it's possible. A Praetor in my armies. Ia great and inspiring center point and I like to use it in the front line, as close combat unit. A SoH army demands someone exemplary.

Like Paragon Blade(Master Crafted preferably) and a Thunder Hammer, because Dreads are abundant nowadays and can get +1A. Only that are 70 points in one miniature, in a list of 3000. And I like to add a Command Squad, oriented to CC as well. And that's more points

Is better keep it cheap or like the example?

 

I want to know other ideas and experiences of other players.

Edited November 21, 2023 by AGRAMAR

[Brother Kraskor]

Paragon & Thunder hammer is too much. If you're that desperate for the extra attack, pick one of those and a lightning claw and save 15pts. Command squad (terminators especially) is a good investment though! 

[Noserenda]

Yeah Praetors are a lot worse than Delegatus this edition, characters in general got a lot worse with the veteran statline buffs and plentiful chosen warriors all over the place.

That said in the Anathema list most of the HQs are very tempting so i usually end up maxing them out on slots, if not gear :D 

[suxdavide]

I used to have delegatus in my lists during HH1.0, while I'm going with praetors now (quite the opposite of what's supposed to be done).

 

That said, as per my latest list, I've a praetor with command squad in boarding shields on a land raider.

I'll let you do the math :P

[No Foes Remain]

I was just having this same thought myself, while building a 2.5k list for my Sons of Horus. A Tartaros Delegatus is 100pts, a Tartaros Praetor is 110pts and for those 10pts gets a much better stats and access to a paragon blade. Same with the Cataphractii gear, Delegatus with that is 110pts and Praetor is 135pts. So why would you not take a Praetor in terminator armour if you can in those circumstances? It's only on foot does the points variance balance out, but then the terminator gear gives a extra wound and a power weapon by default so is often worth the extra points.

 

Something I miss from 1.0, Centurions just seemed more worth it. Sure their stat-line wasn't great but at 50pts base with the consul upgrades not being bad price wise, it was just always better to take a Delegatus (with the free mastercrafted weapon) over the praetor unless you were having a large point game.

[Noserenda]

Ha, hadnt done much with terminator HQs this edition to notice the bizarrely close gap, but the Delegatus' rallying ability is vastly more useful than an extra attack and wound, especially given how common instant death is these days with common thunder hammers.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I think my LVO list for '24 has around 375 plus or minus points locked up in it.

 

I normally play a Praetor and 1-2 centurions in 2.5- 3k.

 

At 2k it's between 1 and 2 HQs.

[Bung]

4 hours ago, AGRAMAR said:

I was thinking about HQ options for my army lists and I thought to my self if I spent too much (or too less) in my HQs. Specially in the case of Praetors.

I like to include always, if it's possible. A Praetor in my armies. Ia great and inspiring center point and I like to use it in the front line, as close combat unit. A SoH army demands someone exemplary.

Like Paragon Blade(Master Crafted preferably) and a Thunder Hammer, because Dreads are abundant nowadays and can get +1A. Only that are 70 points in one miniature, in a list of 3000. And I like to add a Command Squad, oriented to CC as well. And that's more points

Is better keep it cheap or like the example?

 

I want to know other ideas and experiences of other players.

 

If you dont use a RoW a Champion Consul.could do that too.

 

Personly for me, it depends on Points Level and what fun i want to have.

 

As IF going with a Moritat as second HQ with Desintegrator Pistols and Stormshield is fun sometimes, as he tends to survive quite a lot.

 

But in general, If you dont use a RoW Consuls can support your lists way better than a Preator / Delegatius.

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's usually 60-100 for me. Sometimes it'll be just a stock tax centurion if I'm taking a primarch, a stock delegatus without a primarch, or upgrade to a librarian/vigilator/esoterist if i want a bit of extra support.

 

Melee dudes just ain't worth much any more.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

18 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

I think my LVO list for '24 has around 375 plus or minus points locked up in it.

 

I normally play a Praetor and 1-2 centurions in 2.5- 3k.

 

At 2k it's between 1 and 2 HQs.

I do something similar at 3K: A Praetor, and two Centurions.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

For me, it's not so much about how many points get actualy spend on the HQ selections, but rather which (and how many) HQ units are needed for the particular army lists in question to work / perform properly. 

 

 

[arnesh88]

I just prefer to bring 2 HQs, not necessarily worry about the points. Don't know if it's my old school thinking (I'm used to the 2 HQ limit of old detachments) that keeps me from going beyond that, but my current army compositions don't really benefit from more than 2, and I don't have a lot of units that benefit from the more unique consuls I want to run. When we have more options available (like the plastic assault squad possibly being able to convert to destroyers with the "plastic melee upgrade kit" on the release schedule), I would like to include more.

 

Smaller games (< 1501 pts), I'll only bring 1 HQ, usually a delegatus. More than that, I include a 2nd HQ. Above 2000 pts, I usually have a praetor, never more than 1. I just don't care if it's competitive or not. I am a more semi-narrative player, so take what I say with a lot of salt.

[Galron]

Depends on my list and RoW. I tend to like special characters so they are pricy but then I dont tend to bring many centurions. My drop pod list has Corswain, my Steel fist has Corswain. My Terror Assault list has Sevetar and a master of Signals. My Iron Warriors have Golg but he could simply sub out with a terminator Praetor pretty easy.

[Razorblade]

On 11/21/2023 at 3:17 PM, AGRAMAR said:

I like to include always, if it's possible. A Praetor in my armies. Ia great and inspiring center point and I like to use it in the front line, as close combat unit. A SoH army demands someone exemplary.

Like Paragon Blade(Master Crafted preferably) and a Thunder Hammer, because Dreads are abundant nowadays and can get +1A. Only that are 70 points in one miniature, in a list of 3000. And I like to add a Command Squad, oriented to CC as well. And that's more points

Is better keep it cheap or like the example?

You're spending too much on your Dude. 

Paragon Blades are near useless this edition due to the changes to veterans/terminators/Dreadnoughts, if you really need the extra attack on your hammer take a lightning claw. Also Delegatii are cheaper than preators and offer an excellent support ability (tough its usefulness depends on the amount of pinnable Infantry you have)

That said I wouldn't really factor Command Squads into the HQ Cost and view them more as a super Elite choice that doesn't take up a slot. They are a full-fledged unit that scores and fights not a character you stick somewhere.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Humm maybe I must start in try, or better said, to return to the paired lighting claws...

[Dont-Be-Haten]

14 hours ago, Razorblade said:

You're spending too much on your Dude. 

Paragon Blades are near useless this edition due...

I usually take a paragon blade, but it is easy for me to get my paragon blade to S8 or instant death when rad grenades charge the same unit I'm bringing my bully unit into.

 

Other legions don't really have thst luxury...though I do agree both a PB & TH is overkill on PA Praetors. Both Cataphractii and Tartaros makes that combo much cheaper though, and you are essentially just paying for 1 or the other.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

9 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

I usually take a paragon blade, but it is easy for me to get my paragon blade to S8 or instant death when rad grenades charge the same unit I'm bringing my bully unit into.

 

Other legions don't really have thst luxury...though I do agree both a PB & TH is overkill on PA Praetors. Both Cataphractii and Tartaros makes that combo much cheaper though, and you are essentially just paying for 1 or the other.

That's true. That options cost the half if the Praetor wears terminator armor. A point to take in consideration 

[Razorblade]

12 hours ago, AGRAMAR said:

Humm maybe I must start in try, or better said, to return to the paired lighting claws...

I would just run the single Thunderhammer, efficient and effective.

9 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

I usually take a paragon blade, but it is easy for me to get my paragon blade to S8 or instant death when rad grenades charge the same unit I'm bringing my bully unit into.

That seems like a lot of points and effort. Is it really that much better than just swinging a Thunder Hammer?

EDIT: I just did the math on two terminator Command squads (all TH on the squads) fighting each other. One has an ID-Paragon Blade Praetor, the other a TH Praetor. By the end of the first round these squads will have done an almost identical amount of ID-Wounds to each other (4.235 and 4.166 respectively, factoring in the reduced attacks due to a kill on Initiative on the all TH side) and since I don't see a way to keep the PB on instant Death Strength through the second round, this trick does not change the outcome of the combat.

 

9 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

Other legions don't really have thst luxury...though I do agree both a PB & TH is overkill on PA Praetors. Both Cataphractii and Tartaros makes that combo much cheaper though, and you are essentially just paying for 1 or the other.

I am under the Impression that Terminator Praetors can't dual wield outside of Lightning Claws at all, at least battlescribe won't allow it.

Either way you've already paid 15 points towards your Melee weapon when you took the Terminator Praetor, so it's not really cheaper.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

12 minutes ago, Razorblade said:

I am under the Impression that Terminator Praetors can't dual wield outside of Lightning Claws at all, at least battlescribe won't allow it.

Either way you've already paid 15 points towards your Melee weapon when you took the Terminator Praetor, so it's not really cheaper.

 

You're absolutely right. I just checked both books and Battlescribe and you can use both melee weapons,because  you can only change a melee weapon for a melee weapon. Except if you choose Twin Lightning Claws,then you can change the combi-bolter for an option that's not another shooting weapon.

 

So,that option,dual melee weapons, isn't possible,except for TLC.

Edited November 24, 2023 by AGRAMAR

[Dont-Be-Haten]

@Razorblade it's just biomancy and raven guard challenges. I'm ID a lot between Rage and S7-8 in challenges +/- rad grenades. You don't really need more than one round of combat, and usually just let a sergeant or chosen warriors be sacrificed for a challenge.

 

I don't rely heavily on melee either since I've usually sniped out most of the big weapons/things that matter by the time I'm in melee range.

 

That's just for my Tartaros Praetor, my PA has Raven Talons, and I save Thunder hammers for things like my chaplain. I'm more about a narrative than about min-maxing these days, but some combos are just fun.

 

Edit: for transparency, in more cut throat meta; I will take a TH over a PB 10/10 times, and I'm taking over all better comp.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Dont-Be-Haten
Adding thoughts to HQs

[SkimaskMohawk]

4 hours ago, Razorblade said:

I am under the Impression that Terminator Praetors can't dual wield outside of Lightning Claws at all, at least battlescribe won't allow it.

Either way you've already paid 15 points towards your Melee weapon when you took the Terminator Praetor, so it's not really cheaper.

 

They can't, you can only swap the the power weapon out on the Terminator entries, as agramar mentioned already. Wasnt possible in 1st either, which is why a jetbikes praetor was so favoured. 

 

There's also something to be said of getting "easy" instant death that actually requires a lot of investment. Biomancy and rad grenades are two extra characters worth of investment. Bane of tyrants needs an accepted challenge and still a supporting character and you're limited to one model. It's always easier just to take a thunder hammer.