Why isn't there a 40K version of Warhammer Underworlds?

[Flaherty]

Warhammer Underworlds: Shadespire launched back in 2017. GW has presumably been happy with the sales since they support it with annual starter boxes and a full-complement of new content every year. Why then, the better part of a decade in, have they not released a 40K version in the way that there are AoS and 40K flavors of Warhammer Quest?

 

The low model count/card-based format seems like the best possible intro product to the setting/hobby and a way to evangelize to TCG players. A 40K themed version of the game would be an awesome opportunity to provide some chapter specific characters and explore corners of the lore that don't make sense in fully army format. For those that would argue it is resource limitations, why would they not just change the theming and make it a 40K product line which would presumably sell 1.X+ better than AoS?

 

If they do the customer survey again this year, this will be one of my top requests. If you feel similarly, please join in!

[Scribe]

Small little 5 man Inq 28 Squads of various compositions? I would love it to death.

[MoriyaSchism]

Inquisitor is a low model count game but it has detailed rules. I feel a bit unsure about the whole cards thing of Underworlds. I think making Inq 28 official would be a great way to explore stuff like rarely seen aliens, minor ordos and weird cults. Then again Inq 28 is all about converting your own stuff based on the rules and I don't know how GW would feel about a game like that these days.

[Tyriks]

I have not played Underworlds, but I was under the impression it was KT for AoS.  Is it substantially different from KT?

[Cleon]

5 minutes ago, Tyriks said:

I have not played Underworlds, but I was under the impression it was KT for AoS.  Is it substantially different from KT?

Warcry is closer to kill team for AoS, Underworlds is more of a hex boardgame.

 

I've tried both (though only a couple of times each), I'm not sure there is the design space for Underworlds to work in the 40k setting as it really needs ranged effects to be limited to survive on the small board size.

[Lord Marshal]

I imagine because the 'small arena' nature of Underworlds makes it more suited to the AoS setting where melee-weapons are the norm and ranged/magic weapon tends to have in-universe limited range, or is rarer. That's not to say you couldn't fill the teams full of largely melee-only models, but Dave in Marketing is going to get that Primaris Assault Intercessor(tm) with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword(tm) come hell or highwater. 

 

Also, the TCG element of Underworlds is one that GW appear to be consciously trying to move away from with the way they've pushed the Rivals format. It did well into Beastgrave, but Covid caused the game's momentum to plummet off a cliff and the prices became a lot more difficult to swallow for people trying to keep up competitively with it. Underworlds never really recovered as a result.

 

When teams were around £15-17 people were less hesitant about buying boxes of models purely for the cards and then getting a neat painting project on the side (or Ebay) if you weren't personally interested in them, but once they rapidly began upping the cost of starters and boxes people have no problem ditching what is a non-core game (Deathgorge is now at £65/£26 RRP when Shadespire was £30/£15 barely five years ago). Obviously the '40k Factor' would inherently make this a far easier pill for people to swallow, but it would be releasing into the same field as Kill Team, which already hoards the 'competitive-driven spin-off game' side of 40k.

 

I love Underworlds, which is why pains me to admit that it is largely being kept alive by the quality of it's sculpts. 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[Noserenda]

Yeah Underworlds is good fun on a limited basis but it is on some level a card game with pretty game pieces and the card collecting was an enormous red flag for our group who have all at some point been hooked on the sweet black tar of one CCG or another (Mostly magic obviously) though a few of us were buying the bands for the minis, it hit a price cliff recently which put us off  (One day the gutter runners will be mine though, oh yes) so theres that :(

Between Warhammer quest (Should be back to 40k soon?) and Kill team though, i think the obscure corners of 40k are pretty well served? There is certainly a very different model design ethos between kill team and warcry (which tends to expand the setting rather than dig around in the crevices) so whilst mechanically they work similarly the model design is going different places.

So essentially what would a new 40k underworlds add that Kill team (And WHQ) isnt already doing? 

Also, a big part of the Underworlds origin story was a lot of the warbands already existing as part of a cancelled scheme to sell alt models to warhammer/aos players to vary up regiments. As far was we know they didnt do the same thing for 40k? 

[gaurdian31]

I love Underworlds to pieces. The game is really good fun, but like @Lord Marshal points out the game is very melee centric and the ranged weapons in the game have very short range due to the nature of it being an arena game. I do think they could do a good version for 40k, but they would have to figure out a way to tone down the range weapons. I'll join @Flaherty in making it a priority for this year's survey because I want it to exist as well. 

[Flaherty]

1 hour ago, Noserenda said:

Yeah Underworlds is good fun on a limited basis but it is on some level a card game with pretty game pieces and the card collecting was an enormous red flag for our group who have all at some point been hooked on the sweet black tar of one CCG or another (Mostly magic obviously) though a few of us were buying the bands for the minis, it hit a price cliff recently which put us off  (One day the gutter runners will be mine though, oh yes) so theres that :(

Between Warhammer quest (Should be back to 40k soon?) and Kill team though, i think the obscure corners of 40k are pretty well served? There is certainly a very different model design ethos between kill team and warcry (which tends to expand the setting rather than dig around in the crevices) so whilst mechanically they work similarly the model design is going different places.

So essentially what would a new 40k underworlds add that Kill team (And WHQ) isnt already doing? 

Also, a big part of the Underworlds origin story was a lot of the warbands already existing as part of a cancelled scheme to sell alt models to warhammer/aos players to vary up regiments. As far was we know they didnt do the same thing for 40k? 

The gameplay concerns make sense, but feel eminently solvable.

 

As to the obscure corners, what I was trying to get at was that it would be an awesome way to have more chapter/craftworld/warband specific sculpts introduced to the game. In the same way that the new KillTeam is bringing Nightlords models to the table, this format could be a great way to add HQs or just alt sculpts to units.

 

My dream scenario would be something where characters from the novels are turned into small warbands. E.g. Imagine if this Harrowmaster book release was matched with a sculpt that was the centerpiece of a three-man unit of AL sculpts, that could also be sprinkled into a main army. 

 

Feels like this model X 8 warbands a year would give armies a lot more character, not to mention giving inquisitorial retinues a new format in which to exist.

[MoriyaSchism]

19 minutes ago, Flaherty said:

The gameplay concerns make sense, but feel eminently solvable.

 

As to the obscure corners, what I was trying to get at was that it would be an awesome way to have more chapter/craftworld/warband specific sculpts introduced to the game. In the same way that the new KillTeam is bringing Nightlords models to the table, this format could be a great way to add HQs or just alt sculpts to units.

 

My dream scenario would be something where characters from the novels are turned into small warbands. E.g. Imagine if this Harrowmaster book release was matched with a sculpt that was the centerpiece of a three-man unit of AL sculpts, that could also be sprinkled into a main army.

My issue with Underworlds miniatures is that they are closer to single character sculpts than customizable miniatures. I think the Ashes of Faith Inquisition kill team they released a while back is a better approach for future minor miniature releases than the Underworlds model. A modular kit with multiple build options and bits is better for me than getting a box with 3 to 5 single character sculpts like in Underworlds. I'd much rather get for example an Imperial super soldier program box that lets me build Gland Warriors or Afriel Strain operatives than 1 named leader and 4 really fancy troops with fixed loadouts.

[Xenith]

16 hours ago, Tyriks said:

I have not played Underworlds, but I was under the impression it was KT for AoS.  Is it substantially different from KT?

 

As has been said, KT/Warcry are more comparable, while Underwords is more like a CCG/deck building strategy board game, with hex based movement as opposed to freedom of movement. 

 

It probably would port over well, but it would effectively just be a reskin, and divide the Underworlds player base? I think the kind of people that like that style of game will play it regardless of the setting. Excessive guns that we see in 40k also might not be the best, mechanic wise, for the game. 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Underworlds is good but I'm not sure it would work well in the 40k environment where there is naturally a lot more ranged stuff going on. 

 

Plus with how overstretched the specialist studio is and GW's production being abysmally low because of how many hundreds of different products they have to manufacture and sell we really don't want them adding anything else to the mix.  

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

On 11/22/2023 at 12:09 PM, Lord Marshal said:

I love Underworlds, which is why pains me to admit that it is largely being kept alive by the quality of it's sculpts. 

 

 

I think of the same way. There has barely been any activity in my area with regards to underworlds yet LGS sells them. I dont play often, but the models are unique, easy to build being push fit, and i can concentrate more on painting the models. 

 

Underworlds was fun in beginning. 

 

For the OP, in regards of evangelizing TCG players, have you seen/played  the warhammer 40000 commander decks? I thought that type of game covers the TCG itch.

 

I dont know if there is a market for 40k underworld equivalent. I guess i dont feel same way as you do, but if it happens then i am happy for you. :)

[Stef Coudou]

Hi there, 

is it me, or no one talked about Blackstone Fortress ? 
It's a kind of dungeon crawler, an evolutive board game with hexes, in the world of 40K.