Shanghai Warmasters Tournament 2000 Points

[Morticon]

Greetings gents!! 

 

I'll be taking part in a small tournament this weekend, 22 players - only 4 games. But, the BA will be there in force. 

 

I'll be taking a list similar in elements to my last team tournament list, but with some notable changes. 

 

It looks like this:

 

Biologus - Fire Discipline 

 

Librarian Dread - Heavy Flamer

1x5 Scouts - Missle, Rifle, 2 Shotguns

1x5 JP DC - Inferno Pistols, Fists

1x5 JP DC - Inferno Pistols, Fists

1x3 Inceptors - Plasma 

1x3 Inceptors - Plasma 

1x3 Eliminators -2 Fusils, 1 Carbine 

1x3 Eliminators -2 Fusils, 1 Carbine

1x3 Eradicators

1x3 Eradicators

1x3 Assault Centurians - Flamers

1x3 Assault Centurians - Flamers

1x6 Aggressors - Bolt/Frag

1x6 Devastator Centurians - lascannons, missiles

 

 

Let me know if you want comments, or have any questions!

[Jolemai]

It looks slow, so what is going into SR?

Also, Gladius?

[Cleon]

Do you find the carbine on the Eliminator sgt worth it at the loss of the third fusil? My gut assumption was the third fusil was more use, but then the only time I used them I infiltrated them like a moron and got them evaporated before they shot...

[DemonGSides]

I think I'd prefer the bolt snipers personally.  S9 las feels meh compared to other las options. 

[Rhavien]

What detachment will you use? One dread and no tanks looks unfamiliar to me, as most of my lists are tank heavy atm. Otoh you have a lot heavy infantry there. So what's the plan? 

[Karhedron]

Based on the Biologis' Enhancement, that is a Gladius Detachment. 

 

I am seeing quite a lot of movement tricks in there. The Dread can use Wings of Sanguinius to slingshot infantry squads up the table. Carbine on the Eliminators gives move-shoot-move options. Inceptors can Deep Strike close to targets and blow them away. The Scouts can hop into Strategic reserve and redeploy.

 

The Aggressors and Dev Cents provide a couple of bricks to hold the midfield and home objective at a guess while other stuff does hit and fade or rapid replays to keep the enemy off balance. 

 

Am I somewhere close to the money @Morticon?

[Morticon]

11 hours ago, Jolemai said:

It looks slow, so what is going into SR?

Also, Gladius?

Absolutely Gladius!

 

In MOST games it's just the inceptors- i use  everything else to bully the board and give myself options!

[Morticon]

9 hours ago, Cleon said:

Do you find the carbine on the Eliminator sgt worth it at the loss of the third fusil? My gut assumption was the third fusil was more use, but then the only time I used them I infiltrated them like a moron and got them evaporated before they shot...

 

It's a fair question! And one I will report back on afterwards, I find them hit or miss. There's one huge benefit for me, and the reason for their inclusion, that is that they can be TPed near a protected objective by the dread, shoot, then move onto an objective!! This also helps me in the one scrambler field special rule mission. 

 

They can do the same thing from reserve, so their potential for tactical play is big!

8 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

I think I'd prefer the bolt snipers personally.  S9 las feels meh compared to other las options. 

 

I'm thinking more and more about this too, tbh! Especially with their damage! 

[Tokugawa]

I see the concept of John Lennon's ultramarine. Give centurions teleport and turn them into good midfield holders from slow white elephants. He used Ventris to do it, it is once per game and 100% successful(and can rapid ingress). Lib dread can teleport friendly unit every turn but not 100% successful.

 

I think you may find the difference between them when the second time you rolled a "1".

[Morticon]

5 hours ago, Rhavien said:

What detachment will you use? One dread and no tanks looks unfamiliar to me, as most of my lists are tank heavy atm. Otoh you have a lot heavy infantry there. So what's the plan? 

 

WTC terrain and the strength of the Libby Dread.  Full movement and use in the environment in terms of cover and moving through walls etc!! 

The slightly different thing about the infantry list is how much of it is T6/7 , making it as tough as vehicles, without the drawbacks. 

 

I play a very cagey midfield game, using the DC and Assault Cents to bully. I dont push forward and go all out assault, relying mainly on shooty counter synergy. 

 

Aggro or Cent bomb take out any big threat one time, allowing my smaller units to work their magic where needed. 

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Based on the Biologis' Enhancement, that is a Gladius Detachment. 

 

I am seeing quite a lot of movement tricks in there. The Dread can use Wings of Sanguinius to slingshot infantry squads up the table. Carbine on the Eliminators gives move-shoot-move options. Inceptors can Deep Strike close to targets and blow them away. The Scouts can hop into Strategic reserve and redeploy.

 

The Aggressors and Dev Cents provide a couple of bricks to hold the midfield and home objective at a guess while other stuff does hit and fade or rapid replays to keep the enemy off balance. 

 

Am I somewhere close to the money @Morticon?

 

100% on it!! Exactly where it does well

[Morticon]

30 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

I see the concept of John Lennon's ultramarine. Give centurions teleport and turn them into good midfield holders from slow white elephants. He used Ventris to do it, it is once per game and 100% successful(and can rapid ingress). Lib dread can teleport friendly unit every turn but not 100% successful.

 

I think you may find the difference between them when the second time you rolled a "1".

 

Yup. I've been playing with the Libby and the aggro bomb or cents for a while. Always the case.  It's very similar in some ways to my Beijing list you saw a few weeks back, Tokugawa!

[Tokugawa]

5 hours ago, Rhavien said:

What detachment will you use? One dread and no tanks looks unfamiliar to me, as most of my lists are tank heavy atm. Otoh you have a lot heavy infantry there. So what's the plan? 

Only high T, multiple wounds infantry(except for very expendable 55pts scouts) models on the table. Opponent big anti tank guns would become overkill, and small arms can't hurt them, even popular mortars(S8 dmg2 indirect) are ineffective against them.

 

Personally I would drop some eliminators if it's my army. I don't say they are not useful but they disrupted "all high T" plan. Maybe add a Callidus instead.

[jpwyrm]

That list is very interesting indeed. I know it's going to be Blood Angels but I find that, or Lennon's list very cool and the movement shenanigans are quite cool! I wonder if this could work as well in a Blackspear detachment? As Tokugawa pointed out, that time when you'll really need to shift that Centurion blob and you roll "1" will certainly hurt. Teleportarium or Guerrilla Tactics have the advantage of being 100% reliable.

[Morticon]

Absolutely! I think if I had more experience playing it, I'd take it.  For me, Storm of Fire and Honour of the Chapter make the detachment pure fire.  
I'd want to rework a few things with a Vanguard, for sure.  I'd probably put in a Hammerstrike to account for the AP lost in firestorm.

 

Also, the aggros with firestorm and bolt disc is just so much of a crutch ><;  it's so solid and difficult to let go

Edited November 30, 2023 by Morticon

[Karhedron]

6 hours ago, Morticon said:

Also, the aggros with firestorm and bolt disc is just so much of a crutch ><;  it's so solid and difficult to let go

 

The other option for Aggressors is Flamestorm with a Gravis Captain to give them free Immolation Protocols.

 

I think that the Flamestorm Detachment would also work well with this list. IP on the Aggressors for starters. Your Assault Devs and Inceptors will really benefit from the +1S at short range. In fact if you combo a single 6-man Plasma Inceptor squad with Crucible of Battle for +1 to Wound they can smoke anything up to a Leman Russ in one volley (or a Land Raider with OOM).

 

Put the Apothecary with the Eradicators instead and give him Forged in Battle so he can guarantee an extra 6 each round of shooting which will automatically Wound thanks to Lethal Hits. You can also get a guaranteed 6 to save once per turn too. Fun for bouncing the occasional Lascannon hit off them.

[Morticon]

18 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

The other option for Aggressors is Flamestorm with a Gravis Captain to give them free Immolation Protocols.

 

I think that the Flamestorm Detachment would also work well with this list. IP on the Aggressors for starters. Your Assault Devs and Inceptors will really benefit from the +1S at short range. In fact if you combo a single 6-man Plasma Inceptor squad with Crucible of Battle for +1 to Wound they can smoke anything up to a Leman Russ in one volley (or a Land Raider with OOM).

 

Put the Apothecary with the Eradicators instead and give him Forged in Battle so he can guarantee an extra 6 each round of shooting which will automatically Wound thanks to Lethal Hits. You can also get a guaranteed 6 to save once per turn too. Fun for bouncing the occasional Lascannon hit off them.

 

I actually playtested the firestorm!! I was hoping the +1 S, and the +1 to W wound convert well, but the limit in mobility completely messed me.  The loss of fallback and shoot and advance and charge just changed things up too much. The loss of AP where it counted was also a biggie. I would like to try it again though, that's for sure. 

[Karhedron]

7 hours ago, Morticon said:

 

I actually playtested the firestorm!! I was hoping the +1 S, and the +1 to W wound convert well, but the limit in mobility completely messed me.  The loss of fallback and shoot and advance and charge just changed things up too much. The loss of AP where it counted was also a biggie. I would like to try it again though, that's for sure. 

 

Interesting observations, thanks for those.

 

Flamestorm is a very aggressive and in-the-face detachment. Gladius is a bit more finesse. Knowing when to trigger each Doctrine seems to be the key to success with it.

[Paladin777]

I played firestorm once and it went well, though I was admittedly playing against a new player. 

Even so, simply having Assault on all your weapons is quite powerful!

 

However, I've since come to realize that I don't have the proper assets to leverage its full potential so I've gone back to Gladius. 

 

That said, it may be an in-your-face detachment, but it's also very much a shooting detachment! 
 

if you're going into a game with charging as a significant part of your initial strategy, I think you might be in the wrong detachment. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Paladin777

[Morticon]

Hey chaps, back from the weekend. 

 

I came 5th overall and went 3-1.  

 

The first game was a complete clusterfrag for me...I'm STILL very, very angry with myself.   I made three huge blunders that were largely the result of me just not being focused thanks to the brain fog from the flu i had this week. 

 

I lost by 6 points, and had no business doing so.  I literally gave up 9 points, arguably 11, through just completely avoidable things. 

 

Turn 1 I just forgot to do homers (since i went fixed, and am used to tactical, and was just confused)

Turn 3, I had more than enough movement to move a DC boy behind enemy lines for Homers, and didnt bother measuring it- when it came time to do, he wasn't over the line, and so couldnt do it (despite having the movement to be) - losing 4 points

Turn 5, my opponent reminded me after the turn had started, to do a break check.  WIthout even thinking, I just rolled the dice, not stopping for a minute to think that I have a CP and I should use it, because it was a 5 point swing.   

 

So, so frustrating. Was made even worse by poor tactical choices and mishaps too. 

 

Lost that game 72-78. 

 

Played TKSONS next - newer player, sub-optimal list, chilled game.  83 - 33 to BA. 

 

3rd game was vs a very experience player tournament player/winner, that was a litttle newer to 10th, though (playing RG style marines) .  Narrow victory of 90-85

 

4th game was vs a very strong Cusstodes player who was doing well aside from his one loss, but he underestimated the lists shooting, and I spanked 100-38 

 

 

List was golden.  May make some tweaks, but was just great, great, great.  Veyy happy overall. 

[Paladin777]

Glad to hear you did well! It really is a bummer about that first game though. 
 

oh well. I guess that makes it a learning experience for next time!

[jpwyrm]

Awesome placing! Very happy to hear the list worked well, it's always cool to see the Chonky Boyz do good on the table. What unit performed better than expected and which underperformed in your opinion?

 

Also, if you remember I'm curious to know what was the Raven Guard player's list?

[Tokugawa]

Congratulations! 

 

What is "Raven guard style"? Teleporting centurions? 

[Morticon]

3 hours ago, jpwyrm said:

Awesome placing! Very happy to hear the list worked well, it's always cool to see the Chonky Boyz do good on the table. What unit performed better than expected and which underperformed in your opinion?

 

Also, if you remember I'm curious to know what was the Raven Guard player's list?

 

Biologus - blade driven deep

 

6x Aggros

2x5 Scouts

1x5 Incursors

1x3 Eliminators

1x3 Eradicators

1x6 Bolter 'Ceptors

2x3 Plasma 'Ceptors

1x Redemptor

1x Thunderstrike

1x Hammerstrike

2x Whirlwinds

1x Callidus

 

 

 

Regarding what did well/less well, 

 

The Dev Centurians were unreal, not gonna lie.  So, so, so good.  Will be a new staple for me, I think. 

Eliminators never once did what I wanted them to, (which was TP in and do their shoot and scoot jank for objectives) and I think I'll change them out to something else, despite them offering some nice plink damage.

 

Eradicators were solid.  Consistent, all the rerolls for them made them a solid include.  I'm very happy with the list overall.  

 

DC were solid and great, but the lack of scoring on them always hurts. 

I think I will drop the 2 Elims, 1 DC and pick up 2x5 Jump Inters and 2x5 scouts. This will give me a lot more units so do actions with. 

[Goranged]

Great results,  congratulations!

May I ask, how do you use the Librarian teleportation vs Deep Strike, Rapid Ingress and reserves? It feels positioning and timing is key?

[Morticon]

2 hours ago, Goranged said:

Great results,  congratulations!

May I ask, how do you use the Librarian teleportation vs Deep Strike, Rapid Ingress and reserves? It feels positioning and timing is key?

 

It's absolutely pivotal and a HUGE game-changer. 

 

Rapid Ingress and the TP happen at the same timing: "The end of the movement phase". This means I need to declare the end of the turn, and ask the opponent "will you rapid ingress?".  If they say yes, then we as the current player get to choose the order.  If they can block a good position with the RI, then I will take it first.  

Likewise, this move happens AFTER Phantasm, which means you have FAR more reactive ability. 

 

Deepstrikes happen before the teleport.  This also allows us some play.  I had a situation where I deployed Inceptors from reserve to block an Ingress, and then he Ingressed to a safe hidden spot, only to have me redeploy the Inceptors to take shots on the unit he ingressed to "safety".