Urauloth Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 On 12/5/2023 at 5:06 PM, Gongsun Zan said: This is the best Peter Fehervari book not written by Peter Fehervari. 10/10 Chris Wraight wins book of the year for me. Expand Finished it tonight, and I now completely understand this comment/highly accurate review. Nagashsnee, Xin Ceithan and Gongsun Zan 2 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6007931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Nord in Gravis Armour Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) On 12/6/2023 at 6:22 AM, Nagashsnee said: Ok so i finished the book last night. Not much to say other then fantastic read, great job chris wraith its a great book and the fact that the DoF label has and will keep costing you sales is a injustice to the book. But.... i wanna talk about the book without talking about the book. Namely the marketing. ''The mighty fleets of the Indomitus Crusade face terrors and dangers beyond imagining. As Guilliman’s crusade marches forth, bringing the Emperor’s light to thousands of worlds, Fleet Secundus is headed for the darkest dark: the Eye of Terror itself, where Secundus will execute a major offensive deep into the heart of the Archenemy. Along with warriors of the Adepta Sororitas and the Adeptus Astartes, the Imperial Navy battle cruiser Judgement of the Void pushes deeper and deeper into contested space. But as their journey unfolds, the greater schemes of the Indomitus Crusade begin to descend into treachery and intrigue. And as the forces of Chaos close in, a battle for survival is about to unfold, one which has ramifications not just for Fleet Secundus, but for the future of the galaxy itself.' Is a complete and utter lie and symbolic of the key issues of the DoF series. There is a huge disconnect over what they keep telling us we are getting and what we are actually getting so lets talk shop. Expand Pretty much my reaction exactly. The only feelings of disappointment I felt in reading this book were due to realizing that there just wasn't going to be time for the events promised in the back cover copy to actually take place. We got a bait and switch from a story that sounded intriguing to a completely different story that actually WAS intriguing and well-executed, but wasn't what we were promised. It almost comes off as an attempt at deliberate sabotage, but of course it was probably simple incompetence. As if this was maybe the studio's initial suggestion to Wraight and he came back with "How about I do this instead?" And everyone said "Great" but somehow the back cover (and all of Black Library's online marketing) still wound up referring to the original and long-discarded spec plot. Edited December 7, 2023 by Lord Nord DarKnight and Nagashsnee 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6008053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalt Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 On 12/7/2023 at 1:59 PM, Lord Nord said: somehow the back cover (and all of Black Library's online marketing) still wound up referring to the original and long-discarded spec plot. Expand This has happened before like with Prospero Burns or The Flight of the Eisenstein cover art. Or how Amit is described in Echoes of Eternity vs. the illustrations. It's clear that the people involved in creating these books has issues coordinating with each other. Nagashsnee and Helias_Tancred 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6008234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagashsnee Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) On 12/7/2023 at 1:59 PM, Lord Nord said: Pretty much my reaction exactly. The only feelings of disappointment I felt in reading this book were due to realizing that there just wasn't going to be time for the events promised in the back cover copy to actually take place. We got a bait and switch from a story that sounded intriguing to a completely different story that actually WAS intriguing and well-executed, but wasn't what we were promised. It almost comes off as an attempt at deliberate sabotage, but of course it was probably simple incompetence. As if this was maybe the studio's initial suggestion to Wraight and he came back with "How about I do this instead?" And everyone said "Great" but somehow the back cover (and all of Black Library's online marketing) still wound up referring to the original and long-discarded spec plot. Expand When the summary/backcover dropped as part of the preview for this book i was pumped. But very very curious, how the crusade was planning on mounting a invasion into the eye of terror, why they would even want to, what objectives could they possible be aiming for. I had posted about it here and talked about it in my BFG circles in real life. As it would be pretty crazy for run of the mill naval ships to go into the eye and conduct operations. When i told people i read/finished the book they asked me what the answers were in the end, and having to explain to them that non of that ever took place or even got CLOSE to taking place, like even in the story it would be YEARS down the line put some people off. And i dont get it, how long would writing the back cover take? Its not like they get printed BEFORE the book is finished. They dont gain anything from this. On 12/8/2023 at 11:33 AM, lansalt said: This has happened before like with Prospero Burns Expand And i remember what wonders that did for the books reception. I still feel cheated from Nothing will Burn. Edited December 8, 2023 by Nagashsnee DarkChaplain 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6008240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 Honestly, I'm starting to think the issue is overblown. I won't comment on WarCom marketing, because it's generally bull, hyped up from cliffnotes at best, but the description on the book's page and back isn't all to clear to begin with. It's saying that they're "ready to strike at" the Eye, or that they're "headed for the darkest dark - the eye of terror itself", but that is given as the starting point for the story, the hook, before the "but things go very bad very quickly"-parts of both descriptions come into play. Quote Fleet Secundus marches toward the Eye of Terror, ready to strike at the heart of the Archenemy. However, a battle for survival awaits as the greater schemes of the Indomitus Crusade descend into treachery and intrigue. The mighty fleets of the Indomitus Crusade face terrors and dangers beyond imagining. As Guilliman's crusade marches forth, bringing the Emperor's light to thousands of worlds, Fleet Secundus is headed for the darkest dark – the Eye of Terror itself. Along with warriors of the Adepta Sororitas and the Adeptus Astartes, the Imperial Navy battle cruiser Judgement of the Void pushes deeper into contested space. But as their journey unfolds, the forces of Chaos close in, and a battle for survival is about to begin – one which has ramifications not just for Fleet Secundus, but for the future of the galaxy itself. Expand I'm not that far into the book (had to wrap up the penultimate novel on my Star Wars: The High Republic Phase I list first), but from all PoVs so far it becomes clear that the crew believes this is where they're going to be heading. They debate whether or not there is a point to it, if it will really happen, if the orders will even arrive, if it could succeed, or maybe they're just a "lightning rod" for Abaddon's attentions while Guilliman does the real work with chances of success elsewhere. Them going to the eye is something they sort of expect and believe they're going to get stuck with, and they're getting close, ready to make that push beyond the Anaxian Line, but it's a matter of uncertainty even to the highest ranked people on the ship. As such, I actually think the description is fine, because the "they're going to do what?" feeling of disbelief I felt when reading it for the first time back then is kind of echoed by the cast. It's putting me, the reader, on a similar footing as the cast, without spoiling the eventual course and destination of the novel. It serves as a hook that works to set certain expectations and raise intrigue, without lying to me. Now let's compare this to Prospero Burns, where the description to this day is: Quote The Emperor is enraged. Primarch Magnus the Red of the Thousand Sons Legion has made a terrible mistake that endangers the very safety of Terra. With no other choice, the Emperor charges Leman Russ, Primarch of the Space Wolves, with the apprehension of his brother from the Thousand Sons home world of Prospero. This planet of sorcerers will not be easy to overcome, but Russ and his Space Wolves are not easily deterred. With wrath in his heart, Russ is determined to bring Magnus to justice and bring about the fall of Prospero. Expand We don't see the Emperor, we hear about the orders second-hand iirc. The dilemma of the Emperor isn't really explored. It poses the battle for Prospero as the focus of the novel, and Russ's fury at Magnus, and while he gets angry in the end, he gave Magnus every chance to surrender and solve it peacefully. If anything, the book shoes us a very different Russ than the blurb describes, too. Instead of setting up the scenario we're heading into, something that it was originally meant to do when the book got first revealed, long before it got finished, it sets the wrong expectations without being in tune with the novel as-written, or the characters it features. Sea of Souls' description gives us a foundation that we can recognize within the first few chapters of the novel, whereas Prospero Burns makes us anticipate a big blockbuster event that barely exists in the book, and doesn't happen til the very end, and is actually the least interesting part of it all. Sea of Souls warns us that things will get messy and might not shake out as they're planned, whereas Prospero Burns Unremembered Empires us. Aeternus 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6008897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 Just finished the audio book. Wow! This one is gorgeous! Urauloth 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6008930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedor Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 On 12/6/2023 at 6:22 AM, Nagashsnee said: Ok so i finished the book last night. Not much to say other then fantastic read, great job chris wraith its a great book and the fact that the DoF label has and will keep costing you sales is a injustice to the book. But.... i wanna talk about the book without talking about the book. Namely the marketing. ''The mighty fleets of the Indomitus Crusade face terrors and dangers beyond imagining. As Guilliman’s crusade marches forth, bringing the Emperor’s light to thousands of worlds, Fleet Secundus is headed for the darkest dark: the Eye of Terror itself, where Secundus will execute a major offensive deep into the heart of the Archenemy. Along with warriors of the Adepta Sororitas and the Adeptus Astartes, the Imperial Navy battle cruiser Judgement of the Void pushes deeper and deeper into contested space. But as their journey unfolds, the greater schemes of the Indomitus Crusade begin to descend into treachery and intrigue. And as the forces of Chaos close in, a battle for survival is about to unfold, one which has ramifications not just for Fleet Secundus, but for the future of the galaxy itself.' Is a complete and utter lie and symbolic of the key issues of the DoF series. There is a huge disconnect over what they keep telling us we are getting and what we are actually getting so lets talk shop. Reveal hidden contents The ship never gets into contested space, unless they mean space in which other forces stake claims in which case for 40k we call that space, any space, any where. A huge part of the first 20% of the novel is the build up to them FINALLY pushing beyond the anaxean line and them getting ready to strike out with the fleet, etc etc. Only it never happens, the fleet gets ambushed and the ship has to flee and try and reach safe port. Forget deeper and deeper into there is never even a push. Secondly the are no real crusade level schemes going on. No crusade level treachery and intrigue. Oh theres plenty of mystery and a rising sense of otherworldly wrongness and horror. But at no point in this book is this due to crusade politics or intrigue. This book at its core is a run of the mill escort quest...gone horrible wrong of course. I understand the need to keep the plot vague and mysterious but for me this goes way beyond that, the description posted above feels like a whole different book. A book marketing thought would sell better then a horror/mystery. And i DONT GET IT. The plot of this book is fantastic, describing it in a non spoiler way should be easy as eating cake. You have it all, a loyal crew forced into escorting a vital inquisitorial cargo beyond their understanding while hounded by the powers of the great enemy must overcome forces both internal and external to complete their duty. Will the proud results of millennia of naval training and tradition find themselves the equal of the great enemy or will their own shadows and weaknesses show the weakness of the human spirit? etc etc. And while the book is FANTASTIC its part of the DoF series as much as half the marvel films are part of a cinematic universe. By dint of an end credits scene that will mean something when we FINALLY get to the finale of this phase (pick an avengers film). This book is a fantastic book set in the age of indomitus. But thats it, I have read all the DoF books so far and other then knowing the name Rostov i do not GAIN anything from having read them. This is not a series of interconnected stories, its just some books good or bad they be, that will all end up having some impact in the final book whose sole job will be trying to make you feel that there was a central story/plan/goal to DoF all along. But yeah 10/10 Grim dark literature. I did not see the ending coming, I honestly did not think it would go down like that. Expand Has the series been shown to be selling poorly? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6008944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arguleon Veq Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Hope this is alright to post… from a post today by Chris Wraight Earlier this month saw the release of the latest instalment in the Dawn of Fire series: The Sea of Souls, my first contribution to the series. As it happened, this was a pretty hard book to write – I was down with Covid for much of it, so the going was very slow. It was also something of a departure for me – a Navy-centric novel, with a whole heap of lore to get on top of before I felt able to put it all together. As ideas for the book developed, I became keen to really try to show the life of a big Imperial warship in detail – a world in miniature, with its own conventions and idiosyncrasies, all set during the period of the Indomitus Crusade with its many dangers. Writing it all under a pall of fever-induced fatigue had the effect of making me more than usually attached the small cast of characters (who, in typical 40K style, were put through some fairly grim ordeals too), as well as the whole milieu of void-combat in the Dark Millennium. Who knows, maybe I'll get a chance to write more in the same vein? I'd certainly be up for more Navy action if the chance ever comes, and the Indomitus Era is such a great setting. This month also saw the release of the lovely Limited Edition copies of the Vaults of Terra trilogy which brought together the three novels and their associated short stories for the first time, together with a new short, Okira. I hope all those who wanted to managed to get hold of a copy. It's lovely to have all the books together at last in their final form. Although perhaps the story hasn't quite finished yet? I couldn't possibly say... Xin Ceithan, Petitioner's City, Roomsky and 5 others 1 2 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6008969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagashsnee Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 (edited) On 12/11/2023 at 11:10 PM, Fedor said: Has the series been shown to be selling poorly? Expand Honestly as a series? No idea. Going off the LE ? Yes. They sell out very very slowly by BL standards (both 30k and 40k, just look at the sames authors recent Inquisition LE trilogy sold out in mins). But the truly telling sign is of course its re sale value. Nothing for me tells me more about community interest (except in certain cases where the book is just rare) then re sale value. And DoF has lost the scalpers, there is little to no money to be made, because the demand is not there. People are not rushing to buy it on release, and no one is struggling to pick one up second hand. And with the LE we know precisely how many were made, so its not a case of over production. The popular books like Genefather, sell out fast and have decent re sale value day 0.1. Because people want them and had trouble getting them. DoF for this book as the most recent example is 3 weeks into release and i can still if i ever make up my mind pick up the LE from the GW site at cost. Of course maybe its selling really well in audio/paper back and people are just tired of LE series. Tho going off its reception? I would not take that bet. Which is a same as its a cracking read. Edited December 12, 2023 by Nagashsnee Fedor 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6009012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matcap86 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Just finished the book, and I really really liked it. It's the most 40k book I've read in a while. Lots of the newer 40k books feel the need to veer into Horus Heresy style writing with grandiose plot points and bigger and more and over the top! (Which I like, in the Horus Heresy) But this felt like a (good) return to the more concise style novels. It has some tie ins to the bigger universe sure, but it develops some nice characters for the book and lets them have their arc in a universe coherent and fulfilling way, instead of the characters being vehicles for the "big guys" in the setting. No notes, really enjoyed it. byrd9999, DukeLeto69, The Scorpion and 1 other 2 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6009608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ciaphas Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Alright - based on the rave comments here...I have gone and bought the book. Looking forward to it; Wraight has rarely (if ever) disappointed. Nagashsnee and Matcap86 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6009640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnside986 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 I just need to know one thing....is Pluto Nash in the book? byrd9999 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6009848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Antipodes Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 I had mixed feelings on this one. It was certainly a good story and well written. In fact, it was exactly the sort of tale I was expecting when the series was announced - an interconnected series with each book focusing on a different Battlefleet and their actions/fate during the Crusade. There were definite horror undertones throughout (which may be why the mixed feelings) as I’m usually not a big fan of the genre. It was pretty obvious (to me) early on that the astropath spire was where the problem would be. One of my issues was how long it took to get there within the story, but I did enjoy the journey. Nearly every character was so well developed that I was surprised by the eventual fate of some. Not many authors would invest that much effort in non-lead characters. I was certain we would get a part two until I got to the finale. Well played Mr Wraight - and yes, more Navis Imperialis tales please. …and more Iron Shades as well System Sound, LemartesTheLost and DarKnight 1 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6010609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grailkeeper Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 On 12/15/2023 at 8:34 AM, matcap86 said: Just finished the book, and I really really liked it. It's the most 40k book I've read in a while. Lots of the newer 40k books feel the need to veer into Horus Heresy style writing with grandiose plot points and bigger and more and over the top! (Which I like, in the Horus Heresy) But this felt like a (good) return to the more concise style novels. It has some tie ins to the bigger universe sure, but it develops some nice characters for the book and lets them have their arc in a universe coherent and fulfilling way, instead of the characters being vehicles for the "big guys" in the setting. No notes, really enjoyed it. Expand Just finished it. Agree with Matcap 100% Matcap86 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6011485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 I'm in the minority here but overall I did not care for it. I liked (at various levels) the previous Dawn of Fire novels but not this one. At first I thought it was going to be a novel mostly about the lives of those in the Imperial Navy on a large combat vessel with some sort of big mission at hand? The first two thirds of the book was like a story slowly unfolding, interesting at many points but dragging. The last third, as the true plot revealed itself it did so extremely slowly and it really dragged! Once it became known what the plot was and how it was going to resolve itself I felt letdown, just not my personal preference. At this point part of me wanted to just fast forward to the end, but another part wanted to finish it to the end so I knew what happened to the various characters. It was painfully slow. Got to the end and blah. Just not a fan of it. System Sound and Felix Antipodes 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6011750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osteoclast Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Enjoyed the read, though its not up to the same level as the BFG novels. There's a few things that bugged me throughout the book that felt like they were necessary plotholes/idiot balls for the plot to happen. Reveal hidden contents Where is the ship's commissar? Dude exists for a reason, is clearly pointed out in BFG rules, games, rule books, BFG novels, Caiaphas Cain books, would assuredly be found on the fleet going YOLO into the Eye of Terror, and yet isn't mentioned in any way shape or form in this book. Why did the Inquisition ship YOLO into the enemy fleet with zero attempts to communicate or coordinate? In fact, why wasn't it hiding in the densest pack of protection it could get given the cargo? Why was the Evil Corrupting McGuffin carried about instead of being yeeted into a star or something? Why was it carried off the Inquisitor ship? Maybe there's some benefit to sword parts being kept separate instead of being destroyed that would make this make sense (it being the final piece, warp running on narrative powers means its no longer separated and is now complete even if that makes literally no sense to the material world), but if there isn't, and there's a worry that Evil Finds A Way and it'll survive the Inquisition ship exploding, stick the box in a salvage fuzed plasma warhead torpedo. I may clearly be influenced by growing up on Stargate and John "Nuke'em" Sheridan, but I'm pretty sure that high explosives solve all problems, even if sometimes that's by making fusion explosions. How terribly convenient that there are literally no small vessels, including fighters or even pinnaces or shuttles, left to do an external survey of the ship and the spire. Last I checked the only ships the Sisters of Battle had were on long-term/indefinite loan from the Imperial Navy and wouldn't have more powerful weapons. Whether there was an order to retreat was, of course, never clarified, but also, didn't seem necessary since the prior discussion in the flotilla fight was that you jumped into the warp to escape when badly damaged. If there was any indication that SECRET FRIEND MARINE came from friendly direction, I definitely missed it. Doesn't seem to have been a point to the chaos boarding party of shenanigans. Erecting some sort of chaos ritual gate thingie to do, what, exactly, and how was it better than trying to cripple the ship normally? Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6011992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagashsnee Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 On 12/28/2023 at 1:01 AM, Osteoclast said: Enjoyed the read, though its not up to the same level as the BFG novels. There's a few things that bugged me throughout the book that felt like they were necessary plotholes/idiot balls for the plot to happen. Reveal hidden contents Where is the ship's commissar? Dude exists for a reason, is clearly pointed out in BFG rules, games, rule books, BFG novels, Caiaphas Cain books, would assuredly be found on the fleet going YOLO into the Eye of Terror, and yet isn't mentioned in any way shape or form in this book. Why did the Inquisition ship YOLO into the enemy fleet with zero attempts to communicate or coordinate? In fact, why wasn't it hiding in the densest pack of protection it could get given the cargo? Why was the Evil Corrupting McGuffin carried about instead of being yeeted into a star or something? Why was it carried off the Inquisitor ship? Maybe there's some benefit to sword parts being kept separate instead of being destroyed that would make this make sense (it being the final piece, warp running on narrative powers means its no longer separated and is now complete even if that makes literally no sense to the material world), but if there isn't, and there's a worry that Evil Finds A Way and it'll survive the Inquisition ship exploding, stick the box in a salvage fuzed plasma warhead torpedo. I may clearly be influenced by growing up on Stargate and John "Nuke'em" Sheridan, but I'm pretty sure that high explosives solve all problems, even if sometimes that's by making fusion explosions. How terribly convenient that there are literally no small vessels, including fighters or even pinnaces or shuttles, left to do an external survey of the ship and the spire. Last I checked the only ships the Sisters of Battle had were on long-term/indefinite loan from the Imperial Navy and wouldn't have more powerful weapons. Whether there was an order to retreat was, of course, never clarified, but also, didn't seem necessary since the prior discussion in the flotilla fight was that you jumped into the warp to escape when badly damaged. If there was any indication that SECRET FRIEND MARINE came from friendly direction, I definitely missed it. Doesn't seem to have been a point to the chaos boarding party of shenanigans. Erecting some sort of chaos ritual gate thingie to do, what, exactly, and how was it better than trying to cripple the ship normally? Expand While i agree the book (like nearly all books) has some plot holes, i do not agree they exist to make the plot happen. And certainly nothing major compared to normal BL plot wholes. Reveal hidden contents People die, replacements are not always at hand/available. Saying that the lack of commissar is a plot hole is unfair, tho i agree that they could have chucked in a single dialog line to resolve it 'our new commissar is waylaid and wont meet us at the fleet gathering' it is not strickly needed. Atm the ship is without one for any plausible reason. As for the ship yoloing i thought it was clear that it was making a run for mandeville point, and that the lack of communication was because the right security codes/channels between the three ships was still being established. Now if this was the right tactical decision is up for debate, but i can totally see a Inquisitor making a run for it with the artefat while demanding the navy throw ships into the fire to make it happen rather then risk being stuck in middle of a losing engagement. 100% agree with you on the small crafts, if nothing else they should have repair craft and shuttles for transporting crew/supplies. Plus its a Mars class, you telling me there were no fighters in repair/not ready that were left out of the battle. As for the sisters ship, the church is about as lawful in the Imperium as nay church is in real life. I.E not at all, they are rich, powerful and 100% breaking the decree on their military 2 times a day 8 days a week. Like most imperial organizations its all about not taking things too far and not escalating things to a point where the others have to take actions. Also indefinite loan means its a church ship now, and over 1-2-4 thousand years Emperor knows its no longer a navy ship. As for the order, it matters because the navy runs on tradition, it runs on a iron chain of command, and blind faith in said chain and the people who represent it. If the captain lost his nerve and FLED the battle rather then CHOOSE to disengage in order to complete his mission or was ordered to, makes a HUGE difference. And the moment he claimed he got a order takes him choosing to do for the mission of the table as an excuse, so did he get the order....or did he lose his nerve? I found the whole friendly marine twist to be on the weaker side and also did not notice hints. For the boarding party because there chaos, not just chaos but dark mech, making crazy chaos devices that run on souls and tears to do what a normal device does on normal fuel is kinda their whole stick. If you start trying to break down chaos plans/actions based on logic it aint going to go anywhere. 'the voices told me to do it' is a valid reason for them. Ubiquitous1984 and Petitioner's City 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6012024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ciaphas Posted January 11, 2024 Share Posted January 11, 2024 Hail! Finished the book night before last, and I loved it. Really a phenomenal book. Highly recommended! This is one of the best BFG novels I have read; right up there with Gordon Rennies Execution Hour and Shadow Point as well as Relentless by Richard Williams. I hope Chris Wraight does another at some point in the future, because this was good. A question, though. This is the first novel in the entire Dawn of Fire series. Are any of the other novels on the same level as this? I am giving Thorpe's entry a wiiiiiiide berth, as his writing is - at best - mediocre (though Luther and The Emperor Expects were both quite pleasant surprises). Faithfully, Master Ciaphas cheywood, Matcap86 and Ubiquitous1984 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6014893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheywood Posted January 11, 2024 Author Share Posted January 11, 2024 On 1/11/2024 at 8:50 AM, Master Ciaphas said: Hail! Finished the book night before last, and I loved it. Really a phenomenal book. Highly recommended! This is one of the best BFG novels I have read; right up there with Gordon Rennies Execution Hour and Shadow Point as well as Relentless by Richard Williams. I hope Chris Wraight does another at some point in the future, because this was good. A question, though. This is the first novel in the entire Dawn of Fire series. Are any of the other novels on the same level as this? I am giving Thorpe's entry a wiiiiiiide berth, as his writing is - at best - mediocre (though Luther and The Emperor Expects were both quite pleasant surprises). Faithfully, Master Ciaphas Expand Sea of Souls is by far the best entry in the series, but the other books have their moments. Haley’s two entries, Avenging Son and Throne of Light, are both quite enjoyable. Personally I didn’t love Clark’s Gate of Bones or Kyme’s The Iron Kingdom, but they’re still well-written novels. I wouldn’t recommend The Wolftime or The Martyr’s Tomb. Good concepts in both, but I felt the execution lacking. Others might disagree, but I think the major flaws with Dawn of Fire are that the overarching narrative feels remarkably underdeveloped and that there’s minimal cohesion between books. The novels themselves aren’t the problem. Felix Antipodes 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6014933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubiquitous1984 Posted January 19, 2024 Share Posted January 19, 2024 I’ve just finished listening to the audiobook. Great narration as ever by John Banks. The story itself was gripping. I found myself actually caring about the fate of the major characters, which isn’t usually the case for my non-SoT Warhammer fiction. Another grimdark tour de force by Wraight. He really isn’t one for a happy ending with his recent 40K works! One quick question, I skipped books 5 and 6. Presumably nothing that happened in those novels had an impact here (I certainly didn’t feel like I missed on any backstory when reading the book). I would even recommend this novel to someone looking for an entry point into reading 40K. It works great as a standalone IMO, and was simple to follow and doesn’t overwhelm the reader with millions of characters to remember. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6017188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 20, 2024 Share Posted January 20, 2024 I finished this one back in December and i can echo a lot of the praise the book gets. Chris is super good at the domestic aspects of 40k, even in military environments and really breathes life into these scenarios. You read the early passages and think how everything just...works with what we expect from the navy and it's command staff. My biggest issue with this book, and why i didn't post my impressions is that the climax/resolution hurt. I had my suspicions about the fate of the crew and the second ship from early on, but i was hoping they'd triumph and pull through. Reveal hidden contents The fact that not only did not, but most of them succumbed to corruption and betrayed their comrades, with the captain and ship having the worst fate was just...feels bad. And it speaks to how strongly wraight can do his characters that we juggled a few of the different commands staff over one book and came away so invested in them all. Great book, wish theyd pulled through, and the Iron Shades are definitely in whipping boy territory now. Ubiquitous1984, Fire Golem, Felix Antipodes and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6017278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted January 25, 2024 Share Posted January 25, 2024 Looking forward to reading this but having done my back-to-back read of Warhawk-EoE-tEatD1&2 I need to stay in that head space for vol3. After that I will be free again!!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6018752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted February 16, 2024 Share Posted February 16, 2024 Sea of Souls - Chris Wraight Another absolute banger by Wraight. I love everything about this, save perhaps that it might have been more effective if it was an earlier entry in the series. While the overall narrative isn't as closely intertwined as most of the other entries, the entire book is acting as the "in case you thought the Imperium's too strong" entry. An enormous part of the Indomitus Crusade is smashed with almost no fanfare, and the survivors are essentially worse-off than any of the immediate casualties. The back cover blurb being deceptive was also the right choice, IMO, as it meant the book doesn't reveal it's hand too early. Horror is always more effective when you don't know what you're getting into. Also, huge kudos to Wraight for making the epilogue a strong ending for the POV character and not just something to build hype for the next entry in this series. Of course, it has the usual hallmarks of a good Wraight book: well paced, good cast, worldbuilding attention for something usually neglected; it's been an eon since we got a dedicated Navy book. I liked all the POVs, but Isobal was far and away my favourite. Wraight's Sororitas weren't terribly well done in his Space Wolves trilogy, but he came back swinging with Isobel; she both embodies what makes the Sororitas unique and is unique herself, being more personable and laid-back than your average Sister. I've seen some comparison's to Fehervari's work and I generally disagree. Fehervari's dreamlike writing means the sense of unease begins long before anything explicitly gruesome happens; nothing can be trusted from the very start of a Fehervari novel. Wraight's writing is much more straightforward and down-to-earth; his horror is effective because it's a disruption of carefully-crafted normalcy. Reveal hidden contents The only element I found a bit contrived was that the Inquisitor's gunship managed to make such a lengthy attack run before noticing the allegiance of the "enemy" vessel, and then immediately being shot down once they did. All the other elements seemed like turning the characters' flaws and assumptions back on themselves in a very organic, tragically inevitable way; the gunship's fate seemed very lucky, by contrast. I'd give it a Must Read even if you have zero interest in the rest of Dawn of Fire. 9/10 seems about right. DarkChaplain, Aeternus, Arguleon Veq and 2 others 3 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6023315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scorpion Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 On 12/7/2023 at 12:04 AM, Urauloth said: Finished it tonight, and I now completely understand this comment/highly accurate review. Expand I did not understand why people said that at the beginning, but by the final third it surely felt like it. The madness vibe at least. On 2/16/2024 at 6:43 PM, Roomsky said: I've seen some comparison's to Fehervari's work and I generally disagree. Fehervari's dreamlike writing means the sense of unease begins long before anything explicitly gruesome happens; nothing can be trusted from the very start of a Fehervari novel. Wraight's writing is much more straightforward and down-to-earth; his horror is effective because it's a disruption of carefully-crafted normalcy. Reveal hidden contents The only element I found a bit contrived was that the Inquisitor's gunship managed to make such a lengthy attack run before noticing the allegiance of the "enemy" vessel, and then immediately being shot down once they did. All the other elements seemed like turning the characters' flaws and assumptions back on themselves in a very organic, tragically inevitable way; the gunship's fate seemed very lucky, by contrast. I'd give it a Must Read even if you have zero interest in the rest of Dawn of Fire. 9/10 seems about right. Expand I second this.IMHO the one thing that puts Fehervari's works a tier above is their re-readability. You come back to a book knowing how it ends, or having read other Dark Coil stuff, and suddenly you are hit with new understanding and realizations. The reader's experience mirrors the theme of the story and that in my opinion is peak literature. This book is normal at first and maddening at the end. The art here is trying to pinpoint where does normalcy ends and madness begins, Wraight blends it really well, and it is a testament to why he's become one of the Black Library heavyweights. LemartesTheLost, Felix Antipodes, Roomsky and 2 others 3 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6030617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJP Posted April 26, 2024 Share Posted April 26, 2024 Finally got round to reading this after a LONG slog through Martyr's Tomb and WOW... Just superb. You can absolutely feel the horror as things begin to change in the story. Chris Wraight nailed it. Roomsky, LemartesTheLost and cheywood 2 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/381812-sea-of-souls-chris-wraight/page/2/#findComment-6037016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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