40K Starter Sets - What Next?

[Redcomet]

28 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Yes, Vect was ahead of his time as both a Character and a Vehicle. I just don't think they quite knew what to do with him so they dropped him when they updated the Raider/Ravager kit.

 

Now of course you have huge Characters like the Silent King floating about, Vect would fit right into 10th.

They could have chosen to port the larger FW Tantalus over to plastic. And either used it solely as Vechts pimp mobile or sold him as a kit separately, with a few bits so he would fit in the Tantalus

[Orion]

Sell it with special "Warhammer string" so you can rig it up like Tom Ales.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

Wow, what a coincidence: made to order 4th edition just announced:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/24/sunday-preview-return-to-the-battle-for-macragge/?utm_source=CUSTOMERS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WH_24th_December_Preview_&utm_content=&utm_term=

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

I am surprised as well that it came out. I wonder if GW staff is sleuthing through B&C forums. Haha j/k

[Doghouse]

Quite a few of them do or used to, especially Black Library authors. 

 

I'm hoping this is a trend and we'll see the return of Black Reach, I'd gladly buy several of those.

 

 

[TheMawr]

Worked way too long on this, and while the topic faded.. didnt want the work go to waste ;)

 

Hypothetical 11th edition spacemarine side, following up on upgrading leftover old units in 10th.. with Tactical Intercessors Squad and Gravis "devestators" ( but only lascannons and the grav ones, as the others are covered by other units already.)

Also the extra big, extra ridiculous Primaris centurion breacher.. the Millenion heavy breacher.

Librarian in gravis armor and Phobos chaplain, to show their support for these two primaris types.

 

Some obligatory new concepts there is the Phobos "Moritat" squad.. and the Tacticallieutenant to really put the Tactics in Tactical squad.

 

To round it all up, a Siege captain.

 

 

 

I think something like that could be it eventually, with the Assault terminators and Vanguard veterans likely getting their update earlier in 10th edition.

The big question is

What about 12th edition ;)

[twopounder]

Technically that's not the 10th edition starter set, its the limited edition leviathan box set. This would be the actual starter set:

 

[TheArtilleryman]

5 hours ago, twopounder said:

Technically that's not the 10th edition starter set, its the limited edition leviathan box set. This would be the actual starter set:

 

That’s a fair point. That set is nothing like as cool but it’s actually very good value even at GW full price.

[Mr. Oddity]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:36 AM, TheMawr said:

Worked way too long on this, and while the topic faded.. didnt want the work go to waste ;)

 

Hypothetical 11th edition spacemarine side, following up on upgrading leftover old units in 10th.. with Tactical Intercessors Squad and Gravis "devestators" ( but only lascannons and the grav ones, as the others are covered by other units already.)

Also the extra big, extra ridiculous Primaris centurion breacher.. the Millenion heavy breacher.

Librarian in gravis armor and Phobos chaplain, to show their support for these two primaris types.

 

Some obligatory new concepts there is the Phobos "Moritat" squad.. and the Tacticallieutenant to really put the Tactics in Tactical squad.

 

To round it all up, a Siege captain.

 

 

 

I think something like that could be it eventually, with the Assault terminators and Vanguard veterans likely getting their update earlier in 10th edition.

The big question is

What about 12th edition ;)

Some excellent photo manipulation work there! It would fit with their pattern of "updating" models by introducing similar-role Mk. X units. I feel like the whole top row and the Centurion+ would make for a fairly cohesive and interesting box set similar in scale to Leviathan.

 

The Battle for Macragge set is tempting just for the lander, but that price hurts. AoBR though, that one I would heavily consider. I've followed 40k since mid 3rd but AoBR was the source of my first game. A redo or echo of it with modern models would make for a pretty cool box as well!

[Nephaston]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:36 PM, TheMawr said:

Worked way too long on this, and while the topic faded.. didnt want the work go to waste ;)

*snip*

Ooh I did something similar a handful of months ago, though largely text based and with far less effort.

 

Characters were kinda self explanatory sorted for armour type and job description. Admittedly a bit wish-listy.

 

For infantry I sorted by weapon types instead of squad role, because we already blew past that. This one was a bit more jokey because the notion that this would result in 42 dedicated infantry kits (and thus showcasing how the 30k approach to units works better) plus a rant about Omnis.

[TheArtilleryman]

11 hours ago, Nephaston said:

Ooh I did something similar a handful of months ago, though largely text based and with far less effort.

 

Characters were kinda self explanatory sorted for armour type and job description. Admittedly a bit wish-listy.

 

For infantry I sorted by weapon types instead of squad role, because we already blew past that. This one was a bit more jokey because the notion that this would result in 42 dedicated infantry kits (and thus showcasing how the 30k approach to units works better) plus a rant about Omnis.

This is a really interesting read and thanks for posting. It does however completely illustrate the scale of the bloat in the SM codex. While you could add all of these units, I think GW would be bonkers to do so. It is interesting that the Leviathan set is mainly upscaling existing units rather than adding new ones, along with the release of the new jump intercessors and Captain, and consolidating characters like Captain, librarian, chaplain etc. into one datasheet rather than having separate profiles for primaris and non-primaris. Maybe we’ll see more of that in the future.

 

I could do without everything in gravis and don’t see the point in them. They should have all just been tacticus. All it does is create problems. For example, the apothecary biologis that comes with Leviathan can’t actually be attached to any of the units in Leviathan… doh

 

On 12/28/2023 at 4:36 PM, TheMawr said:

Worked way too long on this, and while the topic faded.. didnt want the work go to waste ;)

 

Hypothetical 11th edition spacemarine side, following up on upgrading leftover old units in 10th.. with Tactical Intercessors Squad and Gravis "devestators" ( but only lascannons and the grav ones, as the others are covered by other units already.)

Also the extra big, extra ridiculous Primaris centurion breacher.. the Millenion heavy breacher.

Librarian in gravis armor and Phobos chaplain, to show their support for these two primaris types.

 

Some obligatory new concepts there is the Phobos "Moritat" squad.. and the Tacticallieutenant to really put the Tactics in Tactical squad.

 

To round it all up, a Siege captain.

 

 

 

I think something like that could be it eventually, with the Assault terminators and Vanguard veterans likely getting their update earlier in 10th edition.

The big question is

What about 12th edition ;)

I can’t imagine how much work that must have taken - the images look exactly like real models!

 

I really do wonder if they will do the tactical squad. Firstly because it is still one of their bestselling units, and secondly because that will 100% be the end of firstborn as we know them. However, every starter from 2nd to 7th had a tactical squad in it, so it seems like we are due one, especially as they are still making limp attempts to make “battleline” units important.

Edited January 3 by TheArtilleryman

[Sky Potato]

40 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

I could do without everything in gravis and don’t see the point in them. They should have all just been tacticus.

This isn’t as bad as the dude the other day who flat out wanted HH and LI to completely fail, but what is it with recent negativity?

 

Gravis is absolutely fine, it probably needs a little more fleshing out compared to the other two armour marks of Primaris, but as a concept there’s nothing wrong with it.

[TheArtilleryman]

36 minutes ago, Sky Potato said:

This isn’t as bad as the dude the other day who flat out wanted HH and LI to completely fail, but what is it with recent negativity?

 

Gravis is absolutely fine, it probably needs a little more fleshing out compared to the other two armour marks of Primaris, but as a concept there’s nothing wrong with it.

Probably should have been clearer, as I wasn’t suggesting binning every model in gravis armour. I quite like the models, I just don’t like the keywords, really. If you could just have a captain leading whatever unit you like, or attach an apothecary anywhere, it would sort the whole thing out for me.

Rules-wise, there is no difference between gravis and tacticus armour. Phobos has stealth, but gravis has nothing different - same save, no special rules. All it does at the moment is restrict your leader options.

 

Edited January 3 by TheArtilleryman

[Redcomet]

On 12/19/2023 at 3:20 PM, JayJapanB said:

Sell it with special "Warhammer string" so you can rig it up like Tom Ales.

 

Holy moly

[Nephaston]

9 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

It does however completely illustrate the scale of the bloat in the SM codex. While you could add all of these units, I think GW would be bonkers to do so

It is kinda doable, but it would have required a smart approach to model design, sprue design, AND rules design.

 

First is tying down the base design of the 3 main armour designs, which they somewhat managed, Reivers and Aggressors featuring a couple of eccentricities.

 

Then comes the sprue planning. Here a Horus Heresy approach would have been preferable. Imagine a 10 man Tacticus kit which by default builds you an Intercessor squad, now add a special weapon sprue and you can turn this into a hellblaster or infernus squad. That same principle could apply to the other two sub-marks and would lead to much easier inventory management having only 3 main infantry kits who each have one or two upgrade sprues to cover their variants.

 

Third is the, seemingly, most difficult part; writing the rules. Instead of each squad having a separate sheet you could, for example, have a tacticus  special weapons squad where you get your basic profile with a "choose one" rider below the stats offering a small table of configurations which pertain to the main armament.

Example Special Weapon Marines: this unit comes equipped with; Close combat weapon. Additionally, choose one of the following configurations:

Hellblaster configuration; this unit is equipped with Plasma rifles and bolt pistols, any number of bolt pistols may be exchanged for plasma pistols. (Insert relevant weapon profiles and maybe ability)

Infernus Configuration; this unit is equipped with Pyre Blasters and bolt pistols. (Insert relevant weapon profiles)

And so on for every relevant configuration.

 

And voilà, we have now reduced kit bloat and rules bloat in one fell swoop. All it takes is a bit of planning and maybe some talking between the model designers and the rules team. Sadly, as it stands, the current design philosophy for loyalist marines is far more profitable it seems.

[ThePenitentOne]

9 hours ago, Sky Potato said:

This isn’t as bad as the dude the other day who flat out wanted HH and LI to completely fail, but what is it with recent negativity?

 

Hope I'm not the dude to whom you are referring. My attitude toward Heresy era games is not positive- I find them reductive, exclusionary, and I think the damage GW's IP by further marginalizing already marginalized Xenos factions.

 

But that doesn't mean that I want them to fail- it means I want them to grow into REAL games that more factions can enjoy. Eldar existed in the Heresy Era, and producing a line of older Eldar units would not only allow Eldar fans to get involved with HH, it would also give them cool models to use for under-represented Aeldari subfactions like Ynarri, Corsairs or (dare I dream?) Exodites.

 

As for LI, most of the vehicles in the existing range are still in use in 40k, so what that allows is players who are interested in the current evolving narrative to explore it at a different scale.

 

Heresy era models are awesome. Heresy era games have great mechanics and look like loads of fun... But only for those who are lucky enough to enjoy the three factions that those games support. In their current form, I view them as a cancer with the potential to diminish even further the amazing factions that GW has never bothered to adequately support. But I recognize their potential to support the IP rather than erode it, and I would prefer the games to reach that potential rather than disappear.

 

But for as long as these games continue to cater to a mere three factions, no matter how good they are, they will always be worse than 40k no matter how bad it is.