Born soldiers rule review

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I’ve seen a lot of complaints about born soldiers only kicking in when standing still.

 

but in general it seems like most of the time we don’t want to be rushing forward, so much of our army for the first turn or two will want to be stationary regardless, heavy weapons squads generally don’t have much reason to move either if they’re positioned well.

 

generally it seems we shouldn’t have much of an issue getting those lethal hits.

 

has anyone been having success moving most of their army around most/all turns but think they’d be significantly better off of born soldiers reverted back to the way it was in 9th?

[domsto]

In the current setting of the game you simply can't afford to stand still most of the game

in my experience the best course of action is to simply ignore the fact that we have a Detachment Rule and move your models around. It is always better to move onto an Objective, moveblock the Enemy, deny deepstrike area, score secoundarys, or simply get line of sight to a key unit from the enemy compare to the slim 16% chance that some Rule might trigger.

At the end of day Guard can't win a shootout regardless, so better to play on VP and maximize them.

Born Soldier is super weak and needs a buff or rework.

 

I got 3.Place on a Tournament with born Soldiers triggering like twice over the 3 Games.

so there's that

Edited December 19, 2023 by domsto

[sairence]

Agree with the above. I pretty much only ever get it off on my artillery and then maybe once or twice apart from that. Gotta keep moving, to get those objectives and to make sure you have line of sight take out the priority targets.

 

The main situation when my non-arty vehicles get it is after my opponent tagged them in combat. 

 

But it really dependa on your terrain layouts too. The more open your table, the less you need to move to see. But if you play on heavy WTC tables, you pretty much never get to stand still with direct fire weapons.

Edited December 19, 2023 by sairence

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

7 hours ago, domsto said:

In the current setting of the game you simply can't afford to stand still most of the game

in my experience the best course of action is to simply ignore the fact that we have a Detachment Rule and move your models around. It is always better to move onto an Objective, moveblock the Enemy, deny deepstrike area, score secoundarys, or simply get line of sight to a key unit from the enemy compare to the slim 16% chance that some Rule might trigger.

At the end of day Guard can't win a shootout regardless, so better to play on VP and maximize them.

Born Soldier is super weak and needs a buff or rework.

 

I got 3.Place on a Tournament with born Soldiers triggering like twice over the 3 Games.

so there's that

Focus T1 and 2 on doing secondaries, and killing enemy models, then move T3+ to get primaries.

[domsto]

15 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Focus T1 and 2 on doing secondaries, and killing enemy models, then move T3+ to get primaries.

Moving out as late as Turn 3 is too late for primaries in my experiance

Giving the enemy two Turn "free" rain of the midboard could also prove detrimental as it give him the option to castle you in.

As said my winrate drasticly increased as soon as i startet to ignore Born Soldiers.

 

But if this Tactic works for you, thats Ok

Diffrent Meta, diffrent results

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Move 4 units in transports onto objectives, using the transports to block movement and LoS, to help protect the infantry, the rest of the army stands still and shoots things getting born soldiers

[Emperor Ming]

Having a army wide rule for standing still in this edition is a recipe for failure

 

Its a contributing factor to why guard are 'meh' ish atm

 

Removing the stationary part of the rule, should have been an easy faq, 

 

Its not like guard are gona get a codex anytime soon

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Having a army wide rule for standing still in this edition is a recipe for failure

 

Its a contributing factor to why guard are 'meh' ish atm

 

Removing the stationary part of the rule, should have been an easy faq, 

 

Its not like guard are gona get a codex anytime soon

Guard have been pretty meh since I’ve come back, even with the old born soldiers.

 

our armies tend to be so large at 2k it’s not hard to 50+ models onto objectives while still having another 50+ models that aren’t moving, that’s still a lot of shots that can fish for 6s.

it’s not as good as lethals regardless of moving sure, but how would that interact with all the new rules?

[sairence]

I can't remember the last game I played, where I was able to get even close to 50+ models, or guns, in line of sight of a worthwhile target without repositioning the vast majority of them first, until it was too late. But as @domsto said, different metas with different terrain layouts will lead to different experiences.

 

It's also worth considering, when talking about general rules. that we are one of the only factions that has an army rule that we can straight up lose the benefit of, thanks to a failed battleshock test. 

 

I totally get the fluff reasons for it, but in terms of game design it just feels overly harsh, considering it was baked into no other army.

Edited December 21, 2023 by sairence

[Sergeant Bastone]

I have Born Soldiers trigger quite a bit and really like the rule.  I think our shooting should be more effective when standing still since that's how humans work.  I also run classic infantry squads so also want to stand still for Heavy.  And I'm also from the days when Heavy and Rapid Fire weapons generally couldn't be fired unless you stood still. 

[Fenge]

I think "Born Soldiers" is a terrible detachment rule. The condition under which it applies reinforces not only a playstyle that will cause you to lose games, but also disencentivising you from using the most important phase of the game.

 

It should, in my opinion, apply if a unit is stationary or within half range. This way you are incentivised to move forward and take objectives and hold your ground.

 

With the amount of terrain GW recomends the rule is almost useless on anything not indirect.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Fenge

[domsto]

For a bit of context, looking at the Space Marine Codex (to my knowledge the only Codex,Index with a "remain Stationary" Rule)

The Anvil Siege Force Detachment is ranked one of the worst Detachments because one HALF of the Detachment Rule requirs you to remain Stationary.

 

Lets hope that in next Balanced Dataslate in January we will get some rework to "Born Soldier"

[OttoVonAwesome]

Just use different kinds of Guardsmen. Infantry for standing still Krieg/Cadian/Catachan to push forward early and block units advancing. If you use lots of Guardsmen you should be picketing with forward mid and rear units all ready to push forward when the time comes to sacrifice themselves for the glory of the emperor. The different troopers are better at the different things use em.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 1/26/2024 at 5:26 PM, OttoVonAwesome said:

Just use different kinds of Guardsmen. Infantry for standing still Krieg/Cadian/Catachan to push forward early and block units advancing. If you use lots of Guardsmen you should be picketing with forward mid and rear units all ready to push forward when the time comes to sacrifice themselves for the glory of the emperor. The different troopers are better at the different things use em.

Exactly, in a pure infantry army it shouldn’t be hard for large portions of your army to be getting the benefit of this rule imo.

 

artillery heavy a large portion of your army will be getting it.