Astartes Power Armored Martial Art

[mel_danes]

We know the Space Marines train in all forms of combat, melee, firearms, vehicular, some psychological.

Something I've always wondered about was the styles of armed and unarmed melee combat they learn. Switching between styles as the situation merits.

When facing unarmed humans for instance I presume they switch to a form that maximizes their advantages? Increased speed, strength and stamina with nye invulnerability. 

 

If you know your opponent cannot hurt you, and you can concentrate all your efforts into inflicting damage; what would a combat form look like that completely forgoes defense, and is only attack?

 

I go to the manga Gunnm, or Battle Angel Alita as an example. The story explored a couple cyborg only combat arts, again leveraging the practitioners  increased speed, durability and stamina.  If a cyborg engaged an non-augmented human, it was a mess even without these arts.

One was Panzer Kunst another was Machine Klatsch. They were designed specifically to fight cyborgs and cripple or destroy them.

 

I'm not a trained combatant, but I assume some of you are. Please share your thoughts.

 

Do we have good representation in a novel or story?

[Helias_Tancred]

I know from reading a number of Horus Heresy novels, especially Deliverance Lost, it seems each legion taught its own style of unarmed combat form ... kicks, throws, punches, and other combination moves. I don't want to give away the story of Deliverance Lost by going into detail but suffice it to say each legion taught their own styles and forms. 

 

In 40k novels that I've read I can't really remember anything specifically mentioned, I think it was always just an assumed thing.

 

[Paladin777]

honestly, given the sheer diversity of foes and weapons they face, they'd have to know quite a few fighting styles to fight them all. 

 

Harnishfechten (fighting in armored harness) for fighting against traitor marines or other armored targets if using chain weapons.

 

pugilism if fighting with power fists or similar, and it's just good to know anyway.

 

Blossfechten (fighting without armor) when fighting against foes with power weapons

 

phalanx fighting if they're a unit with storm shields (there really should be a unit with both shields and guns...)

 

various types of grappling, because all armed combat eventually comes to that if it goes on for long enough

 

against mortal opponents they would be able to rely pretty much entirely on armor and athleticism for the actual moves, but would rely more on general combat strategies if outnumbered. 

 

against tyranids they'd be in for the fight of their lives for the sheer number of biological weapon morphs they could have, and they'd have to learn how to grapple things with a tyranid biology to some extent. 
 

So yeah, it's a lot. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Paladin777

[mel_danes]

Excellent replies, thank you.

 

The Heresy component is one I am woefully under informed about. I've only read the first 6 or so of the bajillion novels for that setting. 

 

As for different forms for different opponents and it getting complex, I agree that's as lot to process. However their sole purpose is war, so training a lot is just part of the day.

 

Another query for any that might know. How did armored knights deal with non armored foes?

 

I've seen videos of full plate being very flexible and the user out maneuvered a modern soldier on an obstacle course. 

Fighting another knight was a different affair than fighting some unarmored militia.

The fear is being swarmed, and then a dagger thrust through a visor or armpit.

 

I struggle with the idea that Astartes do rolls and such. The backpack alone breaks that concept for me. They are designed to be athletic but not gymnasts.

 

Again, thanks for reading.

[AutumnEffect]

I have about ten years of MMA experience so I'll weigh in with whatever that's worth.

 

On 12/23/2023 at 8:05 PM, mel_danes said:

When facing unarmed humans for instance I presume they switch to a form that maximizes their advantages? Increased speed, strength and stamina with nye invulnerability. 

 

If you know your opponent cannot hurt you, and you can concentrate all your efforts into inflicting damage; what would a combat form look like that completely forgoes defense, and is only attack?

 

When you are as overwhelmingly superior a combatant as an Astartes against a human, you don't really need any kind of martial arts. When they can, essentially, kill a human with a punch to the torso or head and you're fast enough to do it without the human being able to resist then you don't really have to bother with martial arts or moves.
In the words of a sword instructor I met: "Just kill them." Or, in this case, "Just hit them."

 

11 hours ago, mel_danes said:

Another query for any that might know. How did armored knights deal with non armored foes?

So, I'm not 100% sure if you mean a single knight dealing with several one non-armored foe, a single knight dealing with several non armored foes or something like a pitched battle with a unit of knights dealing with a unit of unarmored foes.

If you are alone and fighting multiple people then the first thing I was trained to look for is to find a location where you would only have to fight them one at a time, such as a staircase, a narrow alleyway or hallway. This is easier said than done if you're getting ambushed/jumped. If you can't do that then you run away and fight them one at a time if they catch up to you, if you have to. If you can't funnel them or run away, try to shove them into each others way as you back away, just do anything you can to keep from getting surrounded.
To put it succinctly, if you're unarmed you really, really don't want to fight several other people at once. You just don't have enough eyes and arms.

If you are armed and armored against multiple opponents that are armed, I don't think the situation would change too much. I'd still be looking for a place to fight that would help offset their numbers. I'd still be moving away to try and fight and neutralize them one at a time and keep from getting surrounded.

I think that's about all I can vouch for with what I know for sure.

Edited December 25, 2023 by AutumnEffect

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Yeah, there's not much reason to study and perfect an unarmed martial art to handle battling mortals when one clumsy backhand will take their head off.

 

It'd be like training a tank to block punches.

[Paladin777]

Agreed with the points about superhumans not needing martial arts to deal with mere mortals. They would just need tactical acumen to make sure they didn't get surrounded and swarmed. 

 

See the martial arts tournament in One Punch Man for a great example of that principle in action!

 

as far as how an (normal) armored warrior would fight off multiple opponents, they would have to make sure to not get surrounded, and have to be extremely good at escaping grapple attempts. They can tank hits, but all that armor doesn't help much against a good wrestler trying to dislocate your shoulder!

Edited December 27, 2023 by Paladin777

[Dracos]

Just a thought. We keep referring to Space Marines as superhuman, which is true of course, but . . . . 

 

 . . . . in the 40k universe Space Marines are barely on par in on way or another with many of the Xenos races, and that doesn't even include taking on their heretical counterparts and the demons they associate with. 

 

In which case I would think their would be a combat form created to best fight each unique Xenos/heretic type.

[mel_danes]

Great point Dracos. I think a fighting form that addressed high durability opponents is the baseline for Astartes, Orks being ever present.

The boltgun and chainsword both being good weapons for harsh opponents.

 

Specific styles for specific enemies might be something we see from the Deathwatch?

[MoriyaSchism]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:23 AM, Dracos said:

. . . . in the 40k universe Space Marines are barely on par in on way or another with many of the Xenos races, and that doesn't even include taking on their heretical counterparts and the demons they associate with.

Barely on par with their heretical counterparts? Is this more of that "thin-blood" nonsense from ADB books? These "thin-bloods" are so WEAK and PITIFUL that they end up being better than some Veterans of the Long War in terms of performance when they do turn traitor like Zhufor and Huron Blackheart. Disgusting "thin-blood" gene-seed that they happily capture to replenish their numbers. Jokes aside they should be about on par with Chaos Marines unless these Marines are empowered by direct intervention from Chaos like Plague Marines, the Chosen or some of the Khornate Marines. 

[Dracos]

1 hour ago, MoriyaSchism said:

Barely on par with their heretical counterparts? Is this more of that "thin-blood" nonsense from ADB books? These "thin-bloods" are so WEAK and PITIFUL that they end up being better than some Veterans of the Long War in terms of performance when they do turn traitor like Zhufor and Huron Blackheart. Disgusting "thin-blood" gene-seed that they happily capture to replenish their numbers. Jokes aside they should be about on par with Chaos Marines unless these Marines are empowered by direct intervention from Chaos like Plague Marines, the Chosen or some of the Khornate Marines. 

Friend I have no idea what you are talking about. If it’s been written in the last ten years I haven’t read it and  about 20 years or so and the first half or dozen ish of the HH series I lost interest in the 40k narrative formulas of each tick of the clock mankind taking a step back in the battle of survival. 
 

Assuming they are suppose to simulate the narrative, when I say “barely”, I mean looking at the data sheets, Marines are the baseline for everything, including normal humans. Generally speaking the difference between a  baseline  Marine and any other factions baseline unit is + / - 16% in any given stat line. Hardly superhuman.

 

Back when we had more stats and Marine Leadership ATSKNF meant something. Again generally, basic Heretic Astartes was equal (or better) all around, the Eldar had equal initiative, the Ork and Necron had equal toughness, the Tyranid could be a mix of both.
 

Obviously more nuanced than that but the gist is that Astartes are the jack of all trade army and master of none that the largest number of newcomers cut their teeth on. Narratively any “martial art” that the Astartes would develop would reflect that by being adaptive to each opponent. I actually liked the doctrines in 8th and the detachments in 10th as an adjacent idea to fitting your fighting style to your opponent as a Space Marine. 
 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Dracos

[MoriyaSchism]

19 minutes ago, Dracos said:

Friend I have no idea what you are talking about. If it’s been written in the last ten years I haven’t read it and  about 20 years or so and the first half or dozen ish of the HH series I lost interest in the 40k narrative formulas of each tick of the clock mankind taking a step back in the battle of survival. 
 

Assuming they are suppose to simulate the narrative, when I say “barely”, I mean looking at the data sheets, Marines are the baseline for everything, including normal humans. Generally speaking the difference between a  baseline  Marine and any other factions baseline unit is + / - 16% in any given stat line. Hardly superhuman.

 

Back when we had more stats and Marine Leadership ATSKNF meant something. Again generally, basic Heretic Astartes was equal (or better) all around, the Eldar had equal initiative, the Ork and Necron had equal toughness, the Tyranid could be a mix of both.
 

Obviously more nuanced than that but the gist is that Astartes are the jack of all trade army and master of none that the largest number of newcomers cut their teeth on. Narratively any “martial art” that the Astartes would develop would reflect that by being adaptive to each opponent. I actually liked the doctrines in 8th and the detachments in 10th as an adjacent idea to fitting your fighting style to your opponent as a Space Marine.

The first time I heard that terminology was in Night Lords trilogy and later in one of the Black Legion books. I was thinking solely in terms of narrative instead of how well the narrative and the gameplay mechanics reflect each other. Hearing Heretic Astartes in Black Library books gloat about the good old days of the Legions and how superior they are is really amusing to me.

 

When I think about power scaling of Space Marines and Xenos races I always think of their equivalents from each faction. Tyranid Warriors, Necron Immortals, Aspect Warriors, Tau Stealth Suits and Ork Nobz are what comes to mind off the top of my head.

[Cenobite Terminator]

I would like to think Marines that spend a lot of time in melee roles would at least develop street fighting techniques over time which could equate to the same thing.

Edited December 30, 2023 by milddead

[N1SB]

Replying too late to say Merry Christmas, BUT in time to say Happy New Year, Brothers.  I love the idea of Astartes~jutsu.  What a gift this is.

 

But to square this circle of whether they have it or not: I bet Astartes have martial arts...but they do NOT even think of it as such imho.  I'll explain.

 

 

Situations Merit It

 

 

On 12/24/2023 at 10:05 AM, mel_danes said:

Something I've always wondered about was the styles of armed and unarmed melee combat they learn. Switching between styles as the situation merits.

 

I practiced Kendo, Japanese swordsmanship.  All about swords, yet our professor (teaches Buddhist studies) made sure we learned unarmed combat.

 

Exactly because the situation merits it!  Swords break!  For all the talk of how well-made Japanese swords are (and they are, it's precisely because the ore native to Japan wasn't that high grade, so they overcome it with their forging techniques).  Yes, they're highly maintained, precisely BECAUSE they will break.

 

(Swords also can get stuck in opponents.  I had a duel where I did a clumsy thrust, super-weird angle through the opponent's sleeve through the back of the head, so that when I pulled my bamboo sword back quickly it un-did the knot for either a shoulder strap or his helmet.  Was super-awkward.  These things happen.)

 

So we were taught some grappling against the fundamental sword strokes, because in a situation where you lose your weapon...the ground is now your weapon, because it's the only one you got now.  That'll buy you a second to at least get away from the melee.  It's like using Terrain in 40k lol, it's that mentality.

 

There's actually a whole unarmed martial arts vs. swords called Aikido, but we were taught basic Judo moves that translated, leading us to...

 

 

(De)Mystifying Some Aspects of Kendo (or not)

 

 

On 12/25/2023 at 2:32 PM, AutumnEffect said:

In the words of a sword instructor I met: "Just kill them." Or, in this case, "Just hit them."

 

I completely 100% endorse Brother AutumnEffect's statement.  Our professor's phrasing of the same thing was: "Go For Broke™."

 

I watch MMA!  Not just UFC, but ONE, PRIDE now RIZIN, others, and sometimes I see the moves I learned!  I watched this wrestling move and the commentator called it an "arm triangle" and it was exactly our Kata Gatame!  It's like our weapon wasn't the sword after all, our weapon was us...maybe that's the real lesson.

 

But it's also like how all these things blur into this 1 blob.  We drill these moves, but at some point, it just all blends together.  It's weird.

 

It's the feeling, AND YOU ALL know it from playing Warhammer.  We talk unit profiles and Stratagems and Wounds on GEQ/MEQ/TEQ/it's so cute...but the game isn't even about killing, it's Score More Victory Points Than Your Opponent.  In Kendo, that feeling is killing your opponent is the only Victory Point you'll ever need.

 

You know that feeling?  If you focus on that 1 goal, everything else eventually takes care of itself, everything WILL fall into place.  However you get there.

 

The funniest thing about Kendo, the Japanese way of the sword, isn't the sword, it's how Japanese it is.  I say this having spent years growing up in Tokyo.  Everything is optimised to the point it's like engineering, streamlined to basic elements.  We do these physical AND mental drills...then just forget they are such.

 

Consider a Japanese product, from a Playstation controller to a collectible toy.  Super-sophisticated engineering so that It.  Just.  Works.

 

The only other thing I'd mention is you see these duels, like in sports events or samurai films.  1-on-1.  HOWEVER, the moves in Kendo were actually designed around multiple opponents in a large battle.  We're always charging forward because some OTHER dude is chasing us (for his 1 VP, right?)

 

And also remember these Japanese actors, yes, there is fight choreography, but they probably grew up at least exposed to Kendo, they had ample chance to actually practice it in school.  It's way more than even Chinese martial arts films, Jacky Chan was actually a child opera performer.  But it's common in Japan.

 

Now I'm just a mere mortal.  So are we all!  But let us translate this mindset, but it's not intellectual, it's like a feeling, to Astartes.

 

 

IMHO Astartes Don't Think Of Martial Arts...Because They DO It

 

 

And I say Astartes DO martial arts, and I say that only in the way Yoda says, "Do.  Or do not.  There is no try."  Let me give you my reasoning.

 

You guys talked about the physical capabilities of Astartes.  Let us not forget their mental capabilities.  They have photographic memories.

 

I had to do a drill like hundreds of times for something as simple as an overheard strike.  A Marine would have to do it but once to perfect it.

 

And it goes way beyond memory.  I'm reminded Captain America's super-serum just didn't give him a peak physical body, but it also altered his mind similarly.  He's a great tactician not just from experience, but it's often pointed out the super-serum how his brain cogitates battle information.  Thus, with Astartes IMHO.

 

Brother Milddead just mentioned "street fighting" and my mind went to the Street Fighter games, then to Tekken.  Here's a hilarious story.

 

This Tekken game is a 3D fighting game, there's eSports of it, and like many eSports, South Koreans are REALLY good at it.  And through these top Korean top players, they do this move that's almost universal among them called the Korean Back Dash (Cancel).  It even has its own acronym, KBD.

 

The Korean Back Dash is a weird movement exploit that just lets them retreat faster than the game is supposed to allow them.  It's a fundamental thing in a game where there's combos and juggles and moves...but you gotta hit your opponent 1st.  Them exploiting movement completely screws up that mechanic.

 

The exploit became a move, then the meta.  The game itself was designed to prevent such fast backward movement so an opponent cannot just hit you early, then retreat the rest of the match until time runs out to score a win on life bar technicality.  But it became commonplace and we just learn to deal with it.

 

The 2 top Tekken KOREAN players (Saint and JDCR), when asked about this KOREAN Back Dash, had the most surprising yet natural reaction.

 

To paraphrase, and it was translated into English, "We heard about this.  We were confused by it.  We don't have a name for it."

 

But the interviewer pressed on the topic, this move came from THEIR meta, they must have a word for it.  In unison, they both replied:

 

"Movement."

 

It was simple as.  In the same fish don't have a word for water (probably a lie, but none of us speak fish yet).  In Hong Kong, we call Chinese food "eating rice."  What does a sniper feel when he shoots a man?  Recoil.  When I heard it, it was like that level of innate badassery.  Now how do we translate that into 40k?

 

Imagine a Guardsmen, forgetting the warning his Commissar gave him, and up and goes to engage an Astartes in conversation:

 

"Excuse me, Mister Marine, that was a really cool martial arts move you just did.  What was the name of that?"

 

"What move?"

 

"Just then, when you parried that Ork, flipped him, then transitioned to ground & pound elbows, it was awesome!  What do you call that?"

 

"...we call it 'fighting'."

 

This is how I'd square that circle.  Astartes don't do martial arts precisely because they do it so much it becomes just "Movement."

 

What a great gift you guys gave me.  This is exactly what it means when they say Warhammer is satire.  It absolutely cracks me up.

[Paladin777]

That seems plausible, but considering how ritualistic annd codified everything is for Space Marines, I'd be more inclined to think they'd have names for each different style.

 

The Custodes do...

Edited December 30, 2023 by Paladin777

[Dracos]

 

You’ll find the same in European sword schools. I don’t think there is actually any military that hasn’t taught hand to hand combat on some level to supplement weapons training. 
 

What it comes down to is that human physiology even Astartes physiology has an “x” amount of moves and counter moves in CQC and every culture will have a wide basket of similarities. Adding Xenos physiologies would mean creating new baskets or martial styles. 

[Paladin777]

@Dracos A fellow sword nerd? I studied Meyer for a fair few years. 

[Dracos]

5 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

@Dracos A fellow sword nerd? I studied Meyer for a fair few years. 

Just two years with hand and a half. I was just getting into using metal when the school closed. Bruises and fond memories. 

[N1SB]

15 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

That seems plausible, but considering how ritualistic annd codified everything is for Space Marines, I'd be more inclined to think they'd have names for each different style.

 

The Custodes do...

 

I was wondering the same thing, because thinking back, I was taught a move I don't even know the name of, but Imma call it Bayard's Revenge, because:

 

 

Everyone was sparring, my opponent lost his balance or I caused it, I don't remember, I followed up, pointed my bamboo sword at his throat.

 

However, I actually didn't know what to do.  I hadn't learned the sword technique for that situation.  But our default stance, you know the famous stance, standing straight, both hands on the sword, pointed at the opponent, the tip is supposed to align towards his throat.  With him on the ground and the point to his neck, if he tried to sit back up or something, he'd have effective run himself through my weapon via the throat.

 

Professor ran up to me, "good, good!"  Remember how I said the remarkable thing about Kendo, Japanese swordsmanship, was the Japanese part?

 

He showed me the move.  It could be divided into 3 intuitive parts.  Each component is simple, the result is awesome, elegantly engineered move.

 

1st, kneel with a knee on the opponent's sword arm.  We wield them 2-handed, but whichever hand, kneel on like the forearm.  Now his sword is pinned.

 

2nd, his sword arm is pinned, but both your hands are free.  Use your off-hand to lift his headgear a bit.  Our headgear has a flap that hangs down to cover the throat, precisely to protect against the sword thrust.  I was supposed to lift that like a lid.  His helmet is still strapped on, but it's like jerked up, his neck is exposed.

 

3rd, now that the "lid" of his neck is lifted, with my good-hand I insert the tip (yes, just the tip) under the flap, to signify basically a coup de grace.

 

Professor was a great teacher, he was Japanese, he broke down what's actually a very complex maneuver intuitively...and he never told me its name.

 

Me calling it Bayard's Revenge for lack of a better description (he's pinning the Power Klaw with a foot, sword at neck) is exact proof of your point.  The typical Astartes would probably at least give their moves some kinda nickname, but it's super-specific, like "Polux's Punch at Sothas" or something.

 

9 hours ago, Dracos said:

 

You’ll find the same in European sword schools. I don’t think there is actually any military that hasn’t taught hand to hand combat on some level to supplement weapons training. 
 

What it comes down to is that human physiology even Astartes physiology has an “x” amount of moves and counter moves in CQC and every culture will have a wide basket of similarities. Adding Xenos physiologies would mean creating new baskets or martial styles. 

 

I did not know that.  It'd be normal for a Japanese teacher would give us some Judo moves for our toolkit, but yeah, that makes sense.  Thanks for that.

 

I did see some medieval drawing where the guy threw his sword's pommel at his opponent.  It went like "unscrew thine pommel from the tang's thread and hoist it at thine opponent's head, thus smiting him with a deathblow," it was the most awesome thing I've ever seen.  But too fiddly, I think, for Japanese sensibilities.

 

Now that you mention it, the Ultramarines used to have to write theses on how to fight different enemies.  I now imagine them with martial arts diagrams.

Edited December 31, 2023 by N1SB

[mel_danes]

Jumping back in here.

I'm combat ignorant so this has been a wonderful read. Thank you all.

 

Question for the trained armed frater. In your training with a weapon I presume there is an ebb and flow of attack, defend and such. If you find yourself in a scenario where defense is not needed, IE your opponent cannot hurt you, you could just go through a series of attack stances/maneuvers.

 

Essentially all out attack.

 

I imagine Assault Intercessors in combat with chaos cultists.  The cultists have make shift weaponry, the Astartes will have chain swords.

The chances of a cultists actually causing injury is near zero. So if the Marines don't need to worry about parry or blocking and just go ape, that would be a thing? I presume there are forms of just sustained assault.

 

Thanks again for the inside peek into your years of knowledge.

[AutumnEffect]

5 hours ago, mel_danes said:

I presume there are forms of just sustained assault.

 

If I understand you correctly Brother mel_danes, I do not know of any martial arts that trains or considers how to best attack people who are helpless or defenseless.
It isn't necessary and, in my opinion, antithetical to martial arts. 

[Colman]

I’m put in mind of the stories about ba gua zhang, which is one of the arts associated with the Chinese Daoists. It’s reputed to be designed for bodyguards to fight off large numbers of attackers - 8 to 1 odds, that sort of thing, which sounds completely silly until you imagine the attackers being ill fed and poorly armed peasants or townsfolk and the bodyguard being a trained and - crucially - well-fed warrior armed with good weapons. It concentrates on constantly moving and constantly striking/throwing. 

 

Imagine a White Scar twirling his way through a crowd of cultists killing one at every step like some sort of wind devil.

 

(Most of the martial-arts-as-moral-improvement stuff comes much later in their histories and is associated with people who weren’t actually warriors.)

[AutumnEffect]

56 minutes ago, Colman said:

I’m put in mind of the stories about ba gua zhang, which is one of the arts associated with the Chinese Daoists. It’s reputed to be designed for bodyguards to fight off large numbers of attackers - 8 to 1 odds, that sort of thing, which sounds completely silly until you imagine the attackers being ill fed and poorly armed peasants or townsfolk and the bodyguard being a trained and - crucially - well-fed warrior armed with good weapons. It concentrates on constantly moving and constantly striking/throwing. 

 

I'm going to come right out and say I'm not a martial arts historian, so all of what you've put forward could be true, but I'm a bit skeptical. A lot of information about martial arts schools and styles from 'Ye Olden Days' was, well, marketing. 

I can only vouch for my experience. To get my blackbelt I did have to fight four people at once. You're focus though is just surviving.
Granted the situation was different; neither me nor the people involved were armed, we weren't trying to kill each other, we all had various levels of training, etc.

Suffice to say, I would personally discount reports of eight to one fights as being propaganda for that school. 
Even if they are peasants and you're armed, eight people is too many. You'll die.

But hey, just one guy's opinion on the internet. 

Side note:
I also have a suspicion about the myth of the 'poorly fed' peasant that often comes up in discussion about medieval and early modern periods. Yes there were famines and no, peasants probably didn't have a regularly full tummy. But these were also people who regularly performed demanding physical labor and they weren't in a constant state of near-starvation. 
After prolonged periods of starvation your body will start to burn muscle as fuel. But starvation will make your peasants angry and desperate before it makes them weak.

Edited December 31, 2023 by AutumnEffect

[Colman]

1 hour ago, AutumnEffect said:

I'm going to come right out and say I'm not a martial arts historian, so all of what you've put forward could be true, but I'm a bit skeptical. A lot of information about martial arts schools and styles from 'Ye Olden Days' was, well, marketing.

Oh sure, so much marketing done - especially with the later Chinese stuff which was more directly commercial than the Japanese, where it was more about getting influential patrons than outright sales -  but I was thinking of it more in the context of Astartes, who do physically outclass baseline humans by the requisite amount.

[Paladin777]

@mel_danesif you're unarmored, then every move you make has to have defense in mind. You're always either closing lanes of attack, or attempting to goad your opponent into moving into an exploitable position. 
 

if you're armored, you don't need to be anywhere near as careful, but you still want to guard any potential weak points. Specifically the joints.