Close Combat rules Q

[Valkyrion]

I had my first game over xmas and it went pretty smoothly, but as with most GW games, my main source of confusion lies in melee.

 

We had two knights each in close combat, Questoris Knight (QK1 and 2) and Cerastus Knight (CK1 and 2) - QK1 and QK2 are both in base contact with CK1, CK2 is only in base contact with QK2 (forget Reach for a moment).

(QK1)(QK2)

    (CK1)(CK2)

 

So, what happens here? Is it this?

QK1 vs CK1 both rolling 3D6 (rend)

then CK1 vs QK2 with QK2 rolling 4D6 as an extra attacker

then CK2 with 4D6 vs QK2 with 3D6 as this time CK2 is the extra attacker.

 

We just played it one on one as we couldn't properly figure it out. 

 

As a secondary question - is there no way that a single close combat can kill a multi wound model without Engine Killer, or am I missing another rule somewhere?

It seemed a bit rum to me that a close combat knight wouldn't be able to kill a kratos in one turn, for instance. 

[dice4thedicegod]

I believe, ignoring reach, they pair off and CK1 fights QK1, and CK2 fights QK2.

 

 There wouldn’t normally be other combats (except that reach would allow them)

Edited January 1 by dice4thedicegod

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Valkyrion said:

So, what happens here? Is it this?

QK1 vs CK1 both rolling 3D6 (rend)

then CK1 vs QK2 with QK2 rolling 4D6 as an extra attacker

then CK2 with 4D6 vs QK2 with 3D6 as this time CK2 is the extra attacker.

 

We just played it one on one as we couldn't properly figure it out.

 

It's actually 1v1 like how you played it . The example on page 60 has a similar combat situation where they explain the pairings. 

 

1 hour ago, Valkyrion said:

As a secondary question - is there no way that a single close combat can kill a multi wound model without Engine Killer, or am I missing another rule somewhere?

It seemed a bit rum to me that a close combat knight wouldn't be able to kill a kratos in one turn, for instance. 

 

Nope, each base does does 1 wound from a won combat unless they have engine killer. But this isn't always bad, a kratos detachment is engaged and pinned with knights, preventing them from shooting in either first or advancing fire steps. The knights might still be able to be shot by other things, but they're taking a -1 to hit at least. 

 

 

[Valkyrion]

Follow up question about Reach then - can CK2 attack QK1, and CK1 attack QK2 via the Reach rule? If so, do the CK's get +1D6 for being a secondary attacker, or is that a base to base rule? 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

No, reach only lets you fight models that haven't been paired and haven't fought already. Everything in your combat was inherently paired to start with, and by the mechanics, your model with reach should never get extra dice for being an extra attacker on it's reach targets.

 

Reach is a bit risky since you'll be giving your opponent a number of extra dice and the lancer averages 23 on its combat rolls when charging, so you can't just fight an entire tercio of 16 at a time. The iconoclast, on the other hand, absolutely doesn't care.