Homebrew successor - Concept and Brainstorming

[Markov Gheist]

Hello everyone, I want to start the new year with a fresh project that's still fairly rough around the edges, so I was hoping for your opinion.

 

The general idea is a Raven Guard successor that inherits most of their general combat doctrines, but with an additional focus on combat medics, so essentially an increased number of apothecaries and helix adepts on the table, maybe a couple of conversions for dedicated apothecary captains. In terms of fluff, my initial idea was that this particular successor is, in a way, overcompensating for the trauma of the Istvaan massacre, and has since dedicated itself to preserving and salvaging geneseed and related medical technology – not necessarily for humanitarian reasons, but rather to ensure their own continued existence.

 

As a result, their general doctrine prefers covert ops via small strike squads, supported by, ideally durable, rapid insertion elements that hit fast and hard, minimizing risk of taking casualties. They are unlikely to stage all-out assaults or invasions, and rather engage in smaller scale missions to secure intel, recover fallen marines and lost tech.

 

Now, with this general outline established, I'd be happy to hear your opinion on this, especially in relation to the more recent fluff developments around Primaris marines. I'm not up to date when it comes to their fluff, so there might be some conflicts I'm not aware of. Would the existence of Primaris invalidate my idea in the sense that there is no reason to put this much emphasis on preserving geneseed in the first place?

 

Looking forward to reading your input

 

 

[tychobi]

Lore sounds great. What u thinking for chapter name, colors and symbol?

[Markov Gheist]

16 minutes ago, tychobi said:

Lore sounds great. What u thinking for chapter name, colors and symbol?

Not sure yet to be honest. I'm still trying to think of anything that doesn't involve a red cross. The first name I came up with was "Samaritans", but I figured that doesn't quite fit given their motives are not particularly altruistic. "Scions of Kos" is my current favourite.

Edited January 4 by Markov Gheist

[Dracos]

What founding is this going to be? 
 

If it’s a Primaris focused Chalter then there is an even during the Guilliman’s Crusade that is very similar to what happened at Istvaan. I actually linked it to my personal lore to explain why they have a close relationship with a member of the Ordo Astartes. 
 

With that thought it sounds like a good project. I like Samaritans but sounds a bit off for the motivations. 

[N1SB]

This is such a great idea, you may not even know how absolutely perfect it is, Brother, oh my cog.  The Primaris, the Great Work, the Torchbearer Fleets are absolutely relevant to your interests without getting in your way.  I can't believe this isn't something played with in the lore yet, it's so good.

 

8 hours ago, Markov Gheist said:

In terms of fluff, my initial idea was that this particular successor is, in a way, overcompensating for the trauma of the Istvaan massacre, and has since dedicated itself to preserving and salvaging geneseed and related medical technology – not necessarily for humanitarian reasons, but rather to ensure their own continued existence.

 

 

"Nevermore."

 

You are absolutely correct, that you may not be aware of how correct you are.  The Raven Guard's trauma of Istvaan V was so deep it cut all the way down to their homeworld of Deliverance, into the basement of their Ravenspire.  I apologise in advance if you already know the following, just making sure we're on the same page.

 

After the Raven Guard took huge casualties (alongside my own Iron Hands and Salamanders), the Alpha Legion actually infiltrated their Legion; they took their lives, then their identities.  They managed to even fool the genetic tests the Raven Guard performed to check.  It was a chaotic time, they wanted to find survivors.

 

To recoup those losses, the Emperor granted Corvus Corax access to pure geneseed from the Primarch project.  They used it on a few hundred Inductii to rapidly replenish their forces, and it created a new type of bigger and betterer Marines called: Raptors.  Not related to the Raptors Chapter later except for the name (afaik!)

 

The Alpha Legion sabotaged the project by injecting like Chaos Daemon blood into the geneseed, let them be implanted, gave it time to germinate and mutate the Raptors, they started growing claws and stuff, then Omegon lead an attack.  To their credit, the Raptors fought against the Alpha Legion, and overpowered them.

 

Those mutated Raptors were locked away in the basement, screaming and stuff, until Corvus Corax went down there, then there was but silence.

 

The only record of the event was the last known vox of Corvus Corax speaking.  Upon leaving the basement, quoth the Primarch, "Nevermore."

 

 

Their Continued Existence

 

When you said this Successor does their biologis-related work for their continued existence, it really remains meaningful to the 42nd millennium.  I may be mistaken, but the impression I got was you were talking about replenishing the Legion in 30k, but it's the keeping all RG Successor geneseed pure in 40k that's critical.

 

These Raptors to the Raven Guard, I suppose, are somewhat comparable to what the Fallen are to the Dark Angels, the Red Thirst/Black Rage to Blood Angels and Wulfen to the Space Wolves.  It's like their original sin.  The only difference is Corvus Corax was much more thorough in putting an end to it personally.

 

But it started with the Alpha Legion, the Hydra, cut down 1 head and 10 more takes its place.  How confident are you their schemes are truly ever over?  On Deliverance, they literally left a genetic ticking timebomb in their geneseed.  Who's to say that was the only one they planted, can anyone be 100% sure?

 

 

Just Brainstorming Now

 

Thus, a Successor Chapter, a mobile fleet-based one perhaps, spread across the galaxy, would be very helpful providing support to any RG-related Chapters.  They just happen to have a disproportionately high number of Apothecaries to help them recover their geneseed, may even bring fresh geneseed.

 

And, of course, it is their way of discreetly checking other' geneseed being free of the taint the Alpha Legion implanted millennia ago.

 

It's like the equivalent of buying a friend a drink, then taking his empty glass to do a DNA test on it...to make sure it's really your friend XD

 

Just brainstorming, thinking aloud, it's like this is the modus operandi of your Successor.  That's why they don't commit so many of their own, they might be used to doing a lot of support actions with other Raven Guard-related Chapters, as a way to test their purity with their expert Apothecary.

 

 

Connection With the Primaris

 

The Primaris would be a fascinating topic of study for your Successor.  Aside from the biologis advancements created by the Techpriest Belisarius Cawl, he also had access to ancient caches of the original Raven Guard geneseed.  It's like an awesome original copy for them to measure against.

 

Your Successor might even be distrustful of the Primaris...but they love the geneseed they're bringing with them.

 

There's 1 geneseed in particular, I forget what it's called, but there was note.  Belisarius Cawl had gotten the research from it, but it was incomplete, like it was deliberately redacted partially.  It may or may not have to do with the Raven Guard Raptors project.

 

 

Their Expertise Might Extend Beyond Geneseed

 

Your Successor might also be experts in other aspects as a result of their focus on geneseed.

 

Your average Apothecary, being a long-lived Marine who practices his craft in the battlefield, might be really good at quickly studying things like Tyranids or new Nurgle plagues in the field.  The Adeptus Mechanicus might have expert magus biologus, but they work in the lab, not out in the field.

 

With a new Tyranid War erupting (I was playing in our store's Leviathan Crusade campaign)...very, very relevant.

 

 

Stopping here for now, I just really like your idea.  "Nevermore" is the famous Primarch quote, it directly relates to geneseed, and you nailed it.

[Markov Gheist]

1 hour ago, N1SB said:

.....

 

 

Stopping here for now, I just really like your idea.  "Nevermore" is the famous Primarch quote, it directly relates to geneseed, and you nailed it.

 

Thank you so much for this writeup, this is an immense help. I'm happy to see there are various plot points to connect this concept with, and I will have to do a lot of reading to follow up on them. I've just now completed Deliverance Lost, so I was aware of some of this, but the connection to primaris and Cawl is new to me. My force consists entirely of primaris right now, so this one needs to be on point. 

 

I guess they could see Cawl's geneseed as a major step towards purity, so they cross the rubicon in greater numbers than other chapters. Maybe they have discovered means to combine that with their own purified strain or have both strains work alongside each other to study the differences. I could even structure the chapter organization accordingly or have different demarkations for recruits seeded with either strain. 

 

Lots of food for thought, thanks again.

Edited January 4 by Markov Gheist

[WAR]

Welcome to the Ravenspire @Markov Gheist

 

What Color scheme you going with. 

[Markov Gheist]

46 minutes ago, WAR said:

Welcome to the Ravenspire @Markov Gheist

 

What Color scheme you going with. 

Thanks for the warm reception. I have not decided yet, but it will probably depend on the chapter symbol I end up going with. I'm thinking some kind of muted green or blue with white contrasts here and there. Maybe I'll segment the helmets/mouthpieces akin to the Mantis Warriors.

Edited January 4 by Markov Gheist

[Dracos]

I lifted the following from the Indomitus Crusade summary. 
 

Quote

Not all could be avenged, however. The initial combat drop into Secundus Terra suffered ambushes and catastrophic malfunctions, having been lured into a terrible trap by the Alpha Legion. Although it pained him to do so, Guilliman made the difficult decision to pull back, skirting the whole Primagenesis System, as he could not afford to become bogged down in a long war of attrition.

 

It reminded me of the Istavaan event from the Great Crusade. The link with the Alpga Legion and the ambush all shadow the tragedy that beset the Raven Guard. This time to its Primaris Successors. 
 

 

Edited January 4 by Dracos
formatting

[Markov Gheist]

18 minutes ago, Dracos said:

I lifted the following from the Indomitus Crusade summary...

Fantastic, thank you. Do you know what book this is from originally?

[Dracos]

You can check the sources at the bottom of this link. I lost track ages of go where the original information was published. 
 

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Indomitus_Crusade

 

[jaxom]

@Markov Gheist

This all sounds awesome. Maybe a name like the Mendicants? It sounds like "mend" but refers to roaming monks.

 

 

10 hours ago, N1SB said:

There's 1 geneseed in particular, I forget what it's called, but there was note.  Belisarius Cawl had gotten the research from it, but it was incomplete, like it was deliberately redacted partially.  It may or may not have to do with the Raven Guard Raptors project.

It was the primarch organ that Cawl thinks is responsibility for making them effectively immortal. The half that he had access to was the basis for the Belisarian Furnace.

[Markov Gheist]

33 minutes ago, jaxom said:

@Markov Gheist

This all sounds awesome. Maybe a name like the Mendicants? It sounds like "mend" but refers to roaming monks.

Good shout, "mending" goes on the list of possible naming elements. I was also thinking about including "Vultures", since recovering lost geneseed can be interpreted as searching for carrion. It sounds less noble, has the avian reference and more of a survivalist connotation.

 

On another note, I was thinking about list construction today, and the Vanguard Spearhead detachment seems like a no-brainer.

 

With that in mind, I currently have these available: 

 

Yet unnamed Chapter Master (Shrike)

Captain with Jump Pack

Apothecary Biologis

Phobos LT with combi weapon

5 Heavy Intercessors

5 Infiltrators

3 Suppressors

 

From here, I will probably get one or even two squads of Assault Intercessors with Jump pack for Shrike and the Captain to lead, however there's also the option of kitbashing a flashy chapter master combining these two kits instead. I'll probably opt for the latter, as I prefer to keep the model count (and thus expenses) low for the time being.

 

In any case, another regular Apothecary is in order for the sake of the theme, but what unit would be a good fit for him to lead? His ability to replace a lost model does encourage expensive bodyguards, so maybe Sternguard Vets? Too bad I can't just attach him to phobos units.

 

Edited January 5 by Markov Gheist

[N1SB]

9 hours ago, Markov Gheist said:

I guess they could see Cawl's geneseed as a major step towards purity, so they cross the rubicon in greater numbers than other chapters. Maybe they have discovered means to combine that with their own purified strain or have both strains work alongside each other to study the differences. I could even structure the chapter organization accordingly or have different demarkations for recruits seeded with either strain. 

 

That is so in-sync with what the ongoing Primaris lore explores.  Everything's falling into place.  Here's more supporting lore.

 

The Magnificat - was the new Primaris organ I mentioned earlier.  In its blurb in the old Codex, they mention Cawl had gotten the data for it from the Primarch project...but it was incomplete, as if someone had deleted it.  Some have interpreted that to be linked to how Corax purged all info related to the Raptors.

 

Belisarius Cawl: the Great Work - this novel has flashbacks of how Cawl became the lead for the Primaris project.  The important point is, before reading, I thought Primaris were a new thing that Cawl invented, but they're not.  It's part of the ongoing Great Work by the Emperor, Cawl literally inherited the project and the info.

 

The Emperor's Spears - it shows how 1 Chapter had to experiment lots with Primaris.  There's a grave with all the failed attempts, the 1st survivor is all like misshapen, but he makes a point that all his dead Brothers helped the effort to cross the Rubicon.  Your Chapter, with the focus on biologis, would've been much more successful.

 

Dark Millennium - describes how the Indomitus Crusade fought across the galaxy with new Primaris, and they'd drop them off along the way.  They'd have been painted with their genesire's Legion colours with a grey chevron (below).  Your Chapter would be fascinated with these guys as they use the old, original geneseed:

 

 

See those Primaris on the sides?  Wearing Ultramarine colours, but they have that grey ^ symbol over the U.  They might not have gone to actual Ultramarines, but to Successors, and may keep the grey ^.  With your idea of markings for different geneseed lineages, I reckoned this was the exact type of thing you're looking for.

 

(This cover itself is from Avenging Son, it just happens to illustrate a concept from the earlier Dark Millennium.  Your equivalent would have been wearing black armour with the Raven Guard insignia with the grey ^ over it, iirc.)

 

All your ideas are falling into place, all the right buckets.  So just fyi Primaris is not all about Cawl as it precedes him, crossing the Rubicon is not easy (unless they're medical experts like your Chapter), and Greyshields are an actual thing that we just don't take enough advantage of in our painting.

 

Your thinking is so on-track, Imma put my own brainstorming ideas in Spoilers below, just random thoughts:

 

 

Coming out of the pandemic, and this is non-political, my 1st thought was how the medical field kinda became the de facto governing body.  It's just an observation of how and how quickly that happened.  And I got thinking about how that relates to the main Chapters.

 

 

Blood Angels with their Red Thirst/Black Rage give the Sanguinary Priests a lot of influence.  Likewise, the Space Wolves with the Wulfen and Wolf Priests.  To contrast, the Dark Angels have their Fallen...not a genetic flaw...so they look to their Interrogator Chaplains and Inner Circle.  So what of the Raven Guard?

 

And I was just thinking, even before the importance of the biologis focus, the Apothecaries effectively give Last Rites, which is ritualistically important regardless.  In your Chapter, your "Inner Circle" would be the Apothecaries, but they'd just be doing their job, they're just really good at it, no fancy Vampire Wolves.

 

Add to that, I've been thinking the Imperium is a Death Cult in general.  All the death's head motifs, they worship a dead god...and this is Raven Guard, the most outright gothic of Legions.  I got this whole image of medieval doctors, like they're Primaris but veterans keep the Mk VI Beakie helmets like Plague Doctors.

 

 

You gave US a lot of food for thought.  I myself will probably work on a Risen army (my friend Timperial Guard gave me a hilarious idea), but I love this.

Edited January 5 by N1SB

[Markov Gheist]

27 minutes ago, N1SB said:

...

 

Great stuff, thanks again for the writeup. I'd probably incorporate at least one unit of greyshield Intercessors lead by a chapter Apothecary as a sort of field experiment, with the more specialized units drawn from the chapter's own stock.  If I keep my colour scheme somewhat coherent with the RG one, they should look great next to each other.

 

Edited January 5 by Markov Gheist