"Non-Meta" Units that have done well for you (?)

[L30n1d4s]

Curious to hear from other Space Marine players what "non-meta" units have performed better for you than expected, relative to what the Competitive 40K circles say is good and bad?

 

For me, the two "under the radar" units that have consistently performed very well in my games are Predator Destructors (I run two) and Incursors (I also run two 5 man squads of these).

 

The Predator Destructors have done Sterling work again a wide variety of targets, their extra -1AP against Infantry make their Heavy Bolters and Autocannons great against everything from hordes to super heavy Infantry (like AdMech Breachers and Terminators). Additionally, the Autocannons are particularly solid, with up to 6 shots each at 24", all at Dmg 3, so enough to kill 3W models outright or even make chip damage against tougher targets (like Monsters and Vehicles) do more than I or my opponent have a right to expect from a non-traditional anti-tank option. I play them in a Vanguard Spearhead,  so keeping them at range makes them get free -1 to hit and free Cover (even out in the open), so they have survived surprisingly well. Finally, since they are only 130 points, they are quite an affordable option in my army, letting me run two without breaking the bank (and meaning that, if I do end up losing one, it's not the end of the world).

 

As for the Incursors, they are a pretty affordable little squad that can Scout move, Advance and Shoot, do some extra MWs close in with their Haywire Mines, grab objectives, Move block, and use other Phobos shenanigans from my Vanguard Spearhead detachment. Most importantly, though, they are the "Markerlights" of my very shooting focused army, consistently (and without costing any CP) giving me +1 to Hit against two separate targets every turn. Combined with the "Strike from the Shadows" Strat and Oath of Moment, this allows me to really maximize the firepower of my key units every Battle Round, in particular my Dev Cents, Aggressors, Hellblasters, Ballistus Dread, and two Predators. The fact that their +1 to hit affects ANY Adeptus Astartes models in my army is really amazing, especially for their relatively low points cost, and I see two squads of them as a staple in pretty much any list I build. 

 

Anyway, those two non-meta units have worked great for me, what about other Space Marine players here on the forum... what "off-the-radar" units have performed well for you all?

Edited January 5 by L30n1d4s

[Paladin777]

I know I've shared this before, but for me it's definitely Vanguard Vets. 
 

Admittedly, I think they're only viable with a Sanguinary Priest (who grants -1 AP and a 5+ FnP), but they make for a nice mobile blender unit that can shrug off firepower almost as well as terminators. They are both a hammer and anvil in my list. 

 

Add in a jump captain for strats and +1 str on the charge and they can punch up against anything below T12 surprisingly well. If you really want to get cheeky, you can give him the Honor Vehement if you've got the points. He ends up being pretty punchy himself 6A, S10, AP-3, with lethal hits on the charge. That becomes 7A at S11 and AP-4 with Lance and lethal hits if you go whole hog with Honor the Chapter in the assault doctrine!

Edited January 5 by Paladin777

[Karhedron]

Actually VanVets can do well, even against T12 targets in an SoS detachment.

 

Add a Captain and they hit at S7 on the charge which is enough to Wound T12 on a 5+ rather than a 6. Use Red Rampage (free thanks to the Captain) and they will be Wounding T12 on a 4+. In an SoS detachment they get 5 Attacks on the charge so a 10-man squad will average 16 Wounds into a T12 target just from that. Then there is the fact that Red Rampage also gives Lethal Hits which should be another 7-8 wounds.

 

At AP-1, they will struggle to force through damage against targets like Land Raiders but with a Sanguinary Priest boosting them to AP-2, they suddenly start to look very tasty indeed.

[Paladin777]

 I know what you mean. They're absolutely brutal in SoS! With the old OoM they could knock down a knight in one turn!
 

They're still quite good in Gladius, and the rest of my army is much better served with that, so that's what I run with. 

Edited January 5 by Paladin777

[Galron]

I fielded a cerberus vs Nids and it did outstanding wiping out whole swaths of enemies.

[Dracos]

I’ve been using a unit of Bladeguard, sometimes two and two units of Lasfusil Eliminators as support units in my (Gravis heavy) Vanguard list. 

[Sir Clausel]

I have used some Bladeguard to. Also chaplains in various forms. Both works just fine.

I have also used Assault Intercessors with jumppack as a ten man unit with a captain. They are great at killing the not too tough stuff.

Edited January 5 by Sir Clausel

[DemonGSides]

I'm on the opposite side of blade guard. Might just be my luck, but the most they've been able to do is tie something up for a turn. Feels VERY weak for a Veteran unit; their toughness feels low too for something walking around with a big piece of metal strapped to their wrist. 

[Dracos]

That’s pretty much what they do for me but I’m using them as an anvil or speed bump pick one for the Aggressors following on foot about 4 - 6 inches behind them. 

Supported by short range Eradicator and long range Lasfusil Eliminator firepower 

[Wormwoods]

3 hours ago, Sir Clausel said:

Also chaplains in various forms. Both works just fine.

I'm fielding 3 different Chaplains in my Crusade Army, and they've been fun! Spooky skull-hats put some work in.

[Cenobite Terminator]

The Vindicator is very strong and I feel it’s underrated.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I don't know if these are 'meta' or not but my Centurion Assault Squad and Dreadnoughts (the boxnaught design) did sterling work for me against Necrons in my last game. 

[DemonGSides]

Centurions are the current meta hotness. They are a bit overtuned for their price. 

[Karhedron]

9 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Centurions are the current meta hotness. They are a bit overtuned for their price. 

 

Seems to be true but considering how ugly the models are, they probably need all the help they can get. 

[Dracos]

Not really. It’s just Raven Guard tricks have a super-force multiplier effect whenever combined with Centurions. Smart money says they go back to 8th and not allow them to work with the Raven err I mean Vanguard detachment. 
 

Which would be fine if they took from one hand yet gave something back with the other. 

[Karhedron]

Centurions also work well with UMs as Uriel Ventriss allows them to Deep Strike. Basically their utility seems to hinge on a mechanism to get a blob of 6 into the midfeld. 24 T7 2+ Wounds is hard to shift and their firepower is decent for their points.

[Rhavien]

Or use a blood angels libby dread to throw them midfield. But I don't own any and won't get them. Maybe if they get a redesign some day. 

 

Edit: Cents I mean. Of course I have a libby dread 

Edited January 11 by Rhavien

[DemonGSides]

10 hours ago, Dracos said:

Not really. It’s just Raven Guard tricks have a super-force multiplier effect whenever combined with Centurions. Smart money says they go back to 8th and not allow them to work with the Raven err I mean Vanguard detachment. 
 

Which would be fine if they took from one hand yet gave something back with the other. 

 

Not to argue but you're wrong. The Centurions are showing up in multiple places, not just Ravenguard lists.

 

Point is that both the shooting version and the assault (but definitely more the shooting) are competitively costed, have good durability, and can shoot like champions. They probably need a points adjustment, and they're showing up in the meta.  They're like, perfectly poised in this current meta.

 

If vehicles take a hit somehow through balances they might go down in usefulness, but as it stands they do exactly what they need to for a relatively cheap fee. 

 

 

[jpwyrm]

In my last two games, the two units that performed better then expected were Incusors and Outriders.

 

The Incursors are nice and I did not get to use their +1 hit ability yet because it was better to move them somewhere else. What they did splendidly though was to help capture points thanks to Scout and their very cool Haywire mine ability. The fact you can pop the mine at the start of any phase is golden. In one of the game I had a little castle in the middle of the board with A Deadly Prize on the objective, meaning any time a unit moved, advanced or charged while on the objective, they took d3 MW. My opponent charged with a Truck that took 3 MW in the Charge phase. Then at the begining of the Fight Phase, the Incursors chucked the mine for another 4 MW! (2d3 vs vehicles) This ability alone is so much fun to use and it often takes opponent by surprise even though I tell them how it works at the begining of the game.

 

Outriders are another unit that did surprizingly well while doing exactly zero damage. (except from the Grenades strat) They move so fast and have huge bases so they can road block quite efficiently, get where you need them quickly for scoring Engage, Deploy teleport homers, even behind enemy lines is doable because.... you don't care if they die and more often than not, your opponent don't want to allocate ressources to killing them since they don't cause any damage. But they are tough for their cost so can stall some units, they're OC2 so if the unit is intact they can flip an objective held by an MSU like Scouts, Henchmen, anything that isn't Battleline. As I said, surprizingly versatile.

[Dracos]

12 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Not to argue but you're wrong. The Centurions are showing up in multiple places, not just Ravenguard lists.

 

Point is that both the shooting version and the assault (but definitely more the shooting) are competitively costed, have good durability, and can shoot like champions. They probably need a points adjustment, and they're showing up in the meta.  They're like, perfectly poised in this current meta.

 

If vehicles take a hit somehow through balances they might go down in usefulness, but as it stands they do exactly what they need to for a relatively cheap fee. 

 

 

Wrong? I don’t think so. I never said they weren’t showing up in other list. Just that they are most effectively used in the Vanguard detachment. Also not to argue  with @Karhedron because he is absolutely correct they are boss with Uriel Ventris … especially in the Vanguard detachment. 
 

Maybe you missed the sarcasm when I mentioned Raven Guard? Because the Vanguard list IS Raven Guard with the serial numbers  filed off, and “Raven Guard trucks was referring to both the RG supplement as well as the shall we say Raven Guard inspired Vanguard detachment. As @Karhedron already said  

 

Quote

Basically their utility seems to hinge on a mechanism to get a blob of 6 into the midfeld. 

Same thing happened in 8e. For a hot minute Raven Guard were to be reckoned with on same level as anyone. Except this time the meta chasers can freely toss in their Special Characters making it even deadlier. 
 

I don’t think you’ll see I price increase unless GW is getting lazy(er?) but something similar to 8e where they just say no using Cents with the stratagem Guerrilla Tactics. 
 

 

Edited January 12 by Dracos

[chapter master 454]

Devastator Centurions are doing well because comically both of you two who took some practice bolter fire at each other (so clearly you two are imperial fists! ) are correct as all of your points are accurate: The vanguard (raven guard inspired) detachment is actually best used with various high durability units as having stealth and cover on demand if the enemy stays back can really mess with them, the -1 to hit when you may already be fighting against high toughness and good armour is a tall order, and that tough armour also has benefit of cover for any AP you bring paired with the excellent Armour of Contempt meaning even extreme AP threats can be bouncing off 4+ saves. That then goes a long way with their 4 wounds, which stuffs most typical weapons with fixed damage and even has good odds to not die against a single D6 damage weapon.

We then get the fact that the Ultramarines with Uriel Ventris can give one unit of these Extra Thiccc bois (so thick, they have 3 Cs) deep strike, making them able to appear wherever they like and with typical load-outs now being missiles and lascannons, only thing they need is LoS on most tables to get things done. We then just spend 1CP each turn if needed to pick them up and put them somewhere else to rinse another unit, making their 4" movement non-issue as now they just get to teleport when needed. However all that hinges on Uriel Ventris, and other than that he doesn't really do much imo. Nice ability and certainly worth it IF you can give that ability to a good unit however if they try and bring in, all that happens is I wager we see Hellblasters get drop squaded in if wanted but other than that, I don't see use case for ol' Uriel outside of this combo.

 

Due to how marines are fairing right now, we aren't in line for nerfs due to being under the 50% margin if I remember right and are largely considered "doing alright" by GW standards, with what feels like their sights aimed at improving unit viablity through buffs instead of nerfs as if we were to lose much more good units...it would be nothing but 18 inceptor vanguard lists every day of the week.

 

Assault Centurions however for me...ain't cutting mustard. They sound good and are durable but that's about it. At 150 points they do waddle pretty tough but 140pts gets you an invictor warsuit with better movement and ranged options with no extra need to bring a land raider. Their melee I've found to be somewhat lacking though I've yet to get them to grips with anything that is monster or vehicle...then again I am playing Iron Storm and Mercy is Weakness tends to delete problems. However that being said, they seem to fold fairly quickly to melee as despite sharing devastator cents stats for defence they can't get cover which seriously hurts their armour validity and melee weapons on anything worth taking tend to have AP2 or better and come in boat load of attacks where as the devastators can stay at range where ranged options out to those ranges tend to be limited and important for dealing with other targets.

 

Incursors are a unit I feel that in their use have been good, just I need to find a better grove for them. It is nothing to sneeze at having a unit that can just let rip some tracer fire and get a blanket +1 to hit for your whole army against that target. Particularly, they work well with Devastator Centurions due to their innate re-roll that is privileged as all get out as we see now with newer codices (that sort of re-roll other armys need to jump 10 hoops just to get re-roll 1s).

 

Personally, I kind of want to bring a reverse mention of a unit I feel under performing: Lieutenant with Combi-Weapon.

This guy has so far been largely a 70pt enchancement carrying pole for my army with his priority objective rule for me just not mattering as much as I would like, only triggering maybe once a game and even then, not doing much. I feel he is overcosts for what he does and doesn't offer much for damage with his pathetic combi-weapon and comical paired blades (Anti-infantry 4+...are you serious? that's the best he can get?)

 

However for me, I don't know if you want to count Land Raider Phobos and Crusader here? (Phobos is the default land raider).

My two land raiders in the Ironstorm have been doing immense work, with so far in 4 games only the crusader as taken a destruction once in the most recent...and that was after it took 3 turns of effort by necrons and even at the end it required a C'Tan to melee it down to ensure its demise. They have been stellar targets for Mercy is Weakness, ripping apart or doing major damage to even non-optimal targets. So far, the only things that seem to take them on the chin are things you would expect from the most top tier things like the wraiths with cryptek...that 4++ followed by 5+++ is just nasty.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Are aggressors meta this edition? Mine did well last game I used them.

[Dracos]

Oh yeah they been Meta since day one when the Biologist showed up. 
 

 

Edited January 12 by Dracos
fat thumbs

[chapter master 454]

9 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Are aggressors meta this edition? Mine did well last game I used them.

 

I mean, they are part of the still immense Fire Discipline combo with Biologis. Typically I believe Blood Angels are the flavour you spice with so you have Librarian Dreadnought for their ability to teleport a unit across the board for no fuss delivery.

[Helias_Tancred]

Well, I for one, have gotten a TON of good results from using my three Gladiator Lancers + 2 techmarines together! I definitely felt like I was going out on a limb with this idea, taking a big risk, but hey who would have thought?!?!?

 

lol joking. 

 

 

When I restarted my 40k hobby from scratch (but I did keep all of my old army bits boxes fyi) and decided on Black Templars, I told myself I would not go Aggressors. I wanted to go in a different non-meta direction with gravis, so I chose Eradicators. I enjoy the challenge of making them work, basically getting around that short range and slower movement. So far I've come up with several methods I've gotten good production out of them.  Also I wanted to say that I didn't choose Black Templars because they were Marine Meta atm, I'm not that sort of player, I chose them for their amazing lore, tons of BL titles, and those beautiful new sculpts that scream "paint me!" ... On the topic of meta I've played this game long enough to understand meta and your faction's power is sorta like a bus that goes around the block. You are either on the bus or you are not? But give it enough time and it comes back around to you again (Except Eldar, they have their own bus and it has NO doors lol).