"Non-Meta" Units that have done well for you (?)

[Karhedron]

Eldar players love Wraithguard, mainly because you can use Fate Dice to generate Devastating Wounds from their Wraithcannons.

 

However I have been having a lot of success with my Axe/Shield Wraithblades. These guys are wonderfully tank and can walk onto pretty much any Objective and take and hold it. T7 2+/4++ makes them very tanky, especially when led by a Spirit Seer who can resurrect one destroyed model in each Command Phase. Their melee output is respectable rather than devastating but they can reliably threaten anything up to T7. When led by a Spirit Seer, they gain Lethal Hits which lets them punch up against tougher targets.

 

Even if facing big and dangerous targets, they are usually tough enough to pin them in place while something heavier comes over the hit it and can usually put a few wounds on it in the meantime.

[Rhavien]

On 2/2/2024 at 5:16 AM, Helias_Tancred said:

    (Except Eldar, they have their own bus and it has NO doors lol).

You surely mean no breaks, don't you? 

 

For me it's terminators. I'm bringing a squad with a cyclone nearly every game and they do a lot of work. I also often add an librarian which adds some punch on top. The storm bolters lay down a hail of shots to clear chaf or pling away some wounds on bigger stuff. The cyclone adds some antitank and if they manage to touch something they bring the pain. 

[CCE1981]

Predators doing well is interesting to me.  I tried three of them over a few games, they simultaneously never did outstanding, nor was I disappointed with them.  
 

Mine have been a two 5-man squads of Infernus Marines riding inside Impulsors.  No matter who I face they have a job, the utility is just crazy.  

[Paladin777]

@RhavienAh, a fellow Terminator Librarian enjoyer! Wonderful to see!

 

I know its not exactly meta, but the assault cannon typically puts in work for me. 
 

It having DW makes it pretty good for taking down that last guy in cover.

Edited February 12 by Paladin777

[chapter master 454]

On 2/9/2024 at 9:51 PM, CCE1981 said:

Predators doing well is interesting to me.  I tried three of them over a few games, they simultaneously never did outstanding, nor was I disappointed with them.  
 

Mine have been a two 5-man squads of Infernus Marines riding inside Impulsors.  No matter who I face they have a job, the utility is just crazy.  

 

I have to echo the predator statement with my destructors. The annihilator ain't really worth it (to be honest, re-roll 1 abilities are better on mass fire and this predator could just outright do with re-roll damage rolls) but the destructor is actually kinda of good.

While it isn't a squad clearing menace, what it can do well in my uses for them is just being the rather obnoxious issue on flanks that flanking units can't really handle well. The point being these Predators go alongside a Redemptor dreadnought and effectively are a combo of durability that seems to always be just out of reach to handle both without being overcommitted.

The bonus AP they get against infantry also puts in a lot more work than expected and works like a form of poor man's "ignore cover". Pair that with the fact their onslaught of weapons are damage 2 and 3, even marine units that tend to soak damage well can't stand up long as each heavy bolter or autocannon round just ends a model, similar story for other units in other armies that may rely on their wound count to survive more shots than they should.

And if left uncontested or achieve flank dominance, you can start chucking their heavy bolters and autocannon rounds into the centre field with their immense range.

Not game winners by themselves but will very likely win if the only units left to that flank by enemies are infantry with no recourse vs. armour, as even charging the tank doesn't stop it shooting and gradually winning out.

 

Kind of want to experiment with some other units, things like maybe using Storm Speeders of various kinds and see what milage I can get from them. Hailstrike I feel likely just falls short because it can't benefit from the boost it gives others (something I think all Storms could use with, having the inherent benefit of gaining their buff for their attacks).

[Wormwoods]

So, ran some Crusade and other casual games recently, and got a lot of use out of a pair of Firestrike turrets. Firestorm Detachment, so I could counteract the 3-inch move enough to get them where they needed to be to carve wounds off a Knight and some Big Nids respectively. Probably not the best unit for the job, but fun, and did let me play the psychological game with the 'Overwatch on a 4+' thing. Resulted in some nid monsters standing still when they could have been charging into my intercessors. 

[Tacitus]

17 hours ago, Wormwoods said:

So, ran some Crusade and other casual games recently, and got a lot of use out of a pair of Firestrike turrets. Firestorm Detachment, so I could counteract the 3-inch move enough to get them where they needed to be to carve wounds off a Knight and some Big Nids respectively. Probably not the best unit for the job, but fun, and did let me play the psychological game with the 'Overwatch on a 4+' thing. Resulted in some nid monsters standing still when they could have been charging into my intercessors. 

Sadly I don't think that's an accurate impression of Firestrikes.  Twin Linking really hurt them, and they haven't gotten enough of a price drop compared to other choices.  Its hard to look at them compared to Eliminators or Suppressors and pick the Firestrike. 

[Progenitor]

On 2/9/2024 at 9:51 PM, CCE1981 said:

Predators doing well is interesting to me.  I tried three of them over a few games, they simultaneously never did outstanding, nor was I disappointed with them.  
 

Mine have been a two 5-man squads of Infernus Marines riding inside Impulsors.  No matter who I face they have a job, the utility is just crazy.  

I've run 10 man Infernus consistently since Leviathan came out with my Dark Angels, they're a cheap unit to sit on objectives and the output from 10 flamers is insane just due to weight of dice. They've consistently punched up against my friends Nids. They clear screens like no-one else and have burnt Lictors out of cover too! 

[Wormwoods]

6 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Sadly I don't think that's an accurate impression of Firestrikes.  Twin Linking really hurt them, and they haven't gotten enough of a price drop compared to other choices.  Its hard to look at them compared to Eliminators or Suppressors and pick the Firestrike. 

Sure, but that's the point of the thread, right? Non-optimal units doing alright?

[chapter master 454]

Yea, the point is to highlight possible uses for units not commonly fielded for one reason or another. I know for personally that it seems people vastly underestimate my Land Raider Crusader in Ironstorm against harder targets, but then I make them roll a ton of saving throws and suddenly half of a tanks 12 wound count is down the drain to Hurricane Bolters. More commonly you'd see Crusaders being used sololy as transports with the ability to clear screening units for the contents to do damage yet my use of land raiders nearly ignores completely the whole "assault ramp" thing people get fixated on. Yea, great for flinging a unit into the enemy but...ever considered the fact it can also be an incredible bunker?

 

I have my Devastator Centurions sit inside my 2 land raiders and this adds a layers of benefits: the footprint of the land raider is now a whole range of movement the centurions get to move around freely. Do I want them to appear on that side, or the opposite? The standard width of a land raider is actually 4" btw so that alone is a whole movement phase then+3" for disembark. Here I am, using land raiders not as delivery, they are being used as Transports, Bunkers and Damage Dealers and getting great success.

Sometimes, the only reason you take a unit is for one specific thing. Sometimes, you take a unit not because of their rule but because of how much utility they offer.

 

Kind of being shown by people saying Infernus marines doing work for them. I mean...yea...most people when building armies tend to have those units, only 1 or 2 that total about 200-250 points worth of dudes that are the deep striking monkeys from outer space, their job? to do actions and snipe backfield objectives. These units tend to be made of paper and fold to any sort of firepower, often only getting work done because overwatch isn't great...unless you don't need to roll to hit! Infernus marines I support have a soft infiltrator deep strike denial effect. Yea, you CAN still deep strike in BUT...objective control is checked at the end of phases...and actions don't complete until end of turn...and if you eat 5D6 worth of auto-hitting flamer, unless your an inceptor you ain't surviving with your only recourse being to deep strike or arrive from reserve outside of 12"...and at that point they still do their job.

 

Firestrike turrets imo aren't bad by all accounts. Similarly having better overwatch is nothing to scoff at considering a lot of those backfield deep strikers rely on you not being able to hit well. Having 2 of these sitting in your back-line with LoS reaching 24" across a normally hard to cover rear for some armies isn't something you just ignore. They could go for a unit dropping nearby...or maybe they just opt to nuke that other unit you dropped in down the line for Behind Enemy Lines.

 

Yea, we aren't going to shake up the meta with our findings but sharing positive experiences with certain uses for units that most write off because their use cases seem too limited is great to share as it may help diversify list building for people. Sadly going to still give a pass on Infernus Marines and Firestrikes but glad to hear people getting success with them.

And by grace of the emperor...it would be nice to hear marines having success with something other than Inceptors and Aggressors...

[Tacitus]

18 hours ago, Wormwoods said:

Sure, but that's the point of the thread, right? Non-optimal units doing alright?

Could be it means different things to different folks I look at it as "good stuff overlooked by the meta" that would help a lot of people.  One guy who gets lucky with Assault Centurions?  Not really something you can count on from game group to game group.

[L30n1d4s]

Two other unit's that have consistently done well for me in every game, but are not necessarily "meta-breakers" that show up in every tournament list,  are my Repulsor and the 10 Hellblasters that ride in it.

 

Against everything from Orks to AdMech to Necrons to even other Space Marines, the ability to safely deliver my 20 Overcharged Plasma shots within a 35" threat ring from the Repulsor (some of the Hellblasters can only get out 1" when I unload the whole squad wholly within 3" ... hence 10" move, 1" disembark, 24" Plasma range) has given me a great deal of utility every game, especially in finishing off tough units that my heavier firepower hit already, but didn't kill completely. Add in the Hellblaster ability to shoot again on death and the options to buff up their accuracy (Oath of Moment and Incursors marking targets for +1 to hit) and I have gotten some of my best killing power out of this unit each time I play.

 

On top of this, the Repulsor itself gives some extra Anti-tank (Las-Talon, TLed Lascannon, Hunter/Slayer missile) and Anti-horde (18 S4 shots from the Repulsor Defensive Array), which again helps me make sure key enemy units are finished off.

 

Finally,  the Repulsor is surprisingly tough in my Vanguard Spearhead, with T12, 3+ save, 16W, and free cover/-1 to hit when more than 12" away from enemy ranged units, so it has survived to the end of the battle in every one of my recent games.

Edited February 15 by L30n1d4s

[jpwyrm]

12 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

Two other unit's that have consistently done well for me in every game, but are not necessarily "meta-breakers" that show up in every tournament list,  are my Repulsor and the 10 Hellblasters that ride in it.

 

Against everything from Orks to AdMech to Necrons to even other Space Marines, the ability to safely deliver my 20 Overcharged Plasma shots within a 35" threat ring from the Repulsor (some of the Hellblasters can only get out 1" when I unload the whole squad wholly within 3" ... hence 10" move, 1" disembark, 24" Plasma range) has given me a great deal of utility every game, especially in finishing off tough units that my heavier firepower hit already, but didn't kill completely. Add in the Hellblaster ability to shoot again on death and the options to buff up their accuracy (Oath of Moment and Incursors marking targets for +1 to hit) and I have gotten some of my best killing power out of this unit each time I play.

 

On top of this, the Repulsor itself gives some extra Anti-tank (Las-Talon, TLed Lascannon, Hunter/Slayer missile) and Anti-horde (18 S4 shots from the Repulsor Defensive Array), which again helps me make sure key enemy units are finished off.

 

Finally,  the Repulsor is surprisingly tough in my Vanguard Spearhead, with T12, 3+ save, 16W, and free cover/-1 to hit when more than 12" away from enemy ranged units, so it has survived to the end of the battle in every one of my recent games.

 

I've been on the edge with Hellblasters to be honest. I find them quite fragile for their cost - they do pack a punch though!

 

Out of curiosity, what does your usual list looks like? It seems you are running quite a good number of non-meta units.

[L30n1d4s]

I've tried several versions of it, but my current iteration (and probably the most competitive one) is:

 

<Blood Angel Vanguard Spearhead>

-5 Incursors (85)

-5 Incursors (85)

-5 Scouts (65)

-5 Scouts (65)

-6 Centurions (Grav Cannon/ML)(370)

-Librarian Dreadnought(170)

-Repulsor (190)

-10 Hellblasters (250)

-Predator Destructor (130)

-Predator Destructor (130)

-Ballistus Dreadnought (140)

-6 Boltstorm Aggressors (240)

-Apothecary Biologist (Blade Driven Deep) (80)

 

As you can see, I have some meta stuff (Dev Cents and Aggressors), but then some other variations/unorthodox units thrown in as well.

 

[Tacitus]

11 hours ago, jpwyrm said:

 

I've been on the edge with Hellblasters to be honest. I find them quite fragile for their cost - they do pack a punch though!

 

Out of curiosity, what does your usual list looks like? It seems you are running quite a good number of non-meta units.

Hellblasters are good, which is why they're fragile.  They're going to be bullet magnets unless you do something.  

 

Put them in an Impulsor which lets the Impulsor take the MW from Gets Hot, and protects them.

Give them a Librarian for a 4++.

Give them an Apothecary for ressurrections. 

Multiples of the above. 

I think 2x10 Hellblasters + Libby with a 4++ Dome could eat a lot of fire like a distraction carnifex while the rest of your army runs rampant. 

[Progenitor]

This is why my Hellblasters have an Azrael with them as well as an Apothecary so I can bring them back! It's all good unless someone with Precision attacks snipes out the Medic! 

[Tacitus]

That's one of the things that bug me about the current edition.  The "secondary" leaders should be able to attach secondary to anything Primary not just a captain. 

 

So the Primaries are 

Cap

Chap

Lib

Sometimes Lieutenants.

 

I get it that none of them are allowed to double up.  I can work with that.

 

The Secondaries are:

Sometimes Lieutenants

(Assorted Command Squaders like Ancients, Apothecaries, etc)

Judiciars

 

They should be able to double up with the above (except for a double barrelled Lieutenant but a Chap+LT should be just as viable as a Cap+LT.  And for the Blood Raven, Blood Angel etc fans a Lib+LT should be a thing too.

 

I don't know which group to put Techmarines. 

[jpwyrm]

14 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

I've tried several versions of it, but my current iteration (and probably the most competitive one) is:

 

<Blood Angel Vanguard Spearhead>

-5 Incursors (85)

-5 Incursors (85)

-5 Scouts (65)

-5 Scouts (65)

-6 Centurions (Grav Cannon/ML)(370)

-Librarian Dreadnought(170)

-Repulsor (190)

-10 Hellblasters (250)

-Predator Destructor (130)

-Predator Destructor (130)

-Ballistus Dreadnought (140)

-6 Boltstorm Aggressors (240)

-Apothecary Biologist (Blade Driven Deep) (80)

 

As you can see, I have some meta stuff (Dev Cents and Aggressors), but then some other variations/unorthodox units thrown in as well.

 

 

Yeah that list is very cool! The Teleport from the Librarian Dreadnought is such cool tech. I have played the Centurion bomb list for a while with Raven Guard and thus can't bring them anywhere I want but with the range of their guns it has not been an issue yet. I might give this iteration of the list a try though, I have a couple of Predators that haven't seen the light of days for years now!

[Tacitus]

14 hours ago, jpwyrm said:

 

Yeah that list is very cool! The Teleport from the Librarian Dreadnought is such cool tech. I have played the Centurion bomb list for a while with Raven Guard and thus can't bring them anywhere I want but with the range of their guns it has not been an issue yet. I might give this iteration of the list a try though, I have a couple of Predators that haven't seen the light of days for years now!

What do you mean you can't bring them anywhere?  You mean like anywhere to get a game, or anywhere on the table top during a game, or what? 

[Karhedron]

21 hours ago, Tacitus said:

That's one of the things that bug me about the current edition.  The "secondary" leaders should be able to attach secondary to anything Primary not just a captain. 

 

I am pretty sure it was a deliberate decision so that we could not stack a 4++ with resurrection. The value of the Apothecary increases in direct proportion to the value of the squad he is reviving. 

[Tacitus]

24 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

I am pretty sure it was a deliberate decision so that we could not stack a 4++ with resurrection. The value of the Apothecary increases in direct proportion to the value of the squad he is reviving. 

But DA can, with Azrael and an Apothecary.   Plus you've got Ravenwing Command Squads able to ressurect 6 black knights with a 3+/5++ 

And that doesn't really explain why You can't add a Captain and a Judiciar or a Chaplain and a Lieutenant to BGV.  I think they wanted to make deliberate decisions, and just got lazy.