Use DW Vet for CSM warband

[Titus Corvus]

Hello.

I have a big pile of DW Vets. Can i use them for my csm warband, only for represent 3+ heroes, chosen and troops.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

First of all, welcome to Bolter and Chainsword and the Chaos subforums!

 

I assume you mean death watch vets, as in the loyalist marines?  How do you intend to use them?  Will you be converting them?  How will you be painting them?

 

Playing Warhammer 40K is essentially a social agreement between the players - both players agree to play the games on whatever terms they want.  Normally this is implicit - we are playing this edition, with these armies.  Sometimes it is more explicit - we are playing with this house rule, or these minis here are standing in for some other minis.  So, outside a tournament, where the rules are typically more rigid, whatever goes with your opponent is fine.

 

What is "fine" will depend on who your opponent is and the B&C (or the internet more generally) can't really help you in that respect - you (likely) know your prospective opponents better than we do and in any event if you want to know their opinions, it is better to talk to them than to us about them.  That said, we can provide you with our own opinions on the matter... but as said, that is just our opinions.

 

In my view, generally players see things on kind of a sliding scale, with each player's comfort point falling somewhere along it.  At one end, you have the "purists" where it needs to be the GW provided minis for that unit, with the correct wargear and the correct GW faction paint job (so, for example, Blood Angels and their successors are red - so no blue or green marines using Blood Angels rules).  On the other end are the "anything goes" where it doesn't really matter what you field so long as it is clear what is what.

 

As someone who is more towards the "purist" end of the scale myself, in my view, there are a few factors that you can do to limit whatever issues a player might have with the army, which are (these do overlap, which is why there is some repetition in my discussion):

 

a)  Limit confusion.  Make each unit so that it looks like the chaos unit is representing in some fashion, or at least make it so different types of units (say, chosen and legionaires) are easily visually distinguished from each other.  Try to match the wargear the models have with the wargear in the chaos codex (so, don't field a guy with a rifle as a guy with a pistol or chainsword, don't use models with grav guns as chaos marines don't have them, field a guy with a flamer type weapon as a guy with a flamer, etc) or at minimum make it consistent (so, all guys with grav guns have plasma guns).

 

b)  Make your models look like chaos marines.  Generally players like conversions and people doing neat things with their armies.  If you simply field your DW marines in DW colours, opponents are likely to wonder why you aren't just playing them with the DW rules instead.  But, if you paint them is a scheme that either matches one of the GW chaos factions, or matches the opponent's conception of what a chaos army should look like (and doesn't look like a death watch army) it is more likely to be accepted.

 

c)  Put the effort into it.  If you just plop down your death watch army on the table as chaos, your opponent again will wonder why you aren't just using their proper rules.  If you convert them, fewer opponents will have issues.  One way that can be particularly effective is buying a bunch of chaos models, cutting them and your DW up and swapping pieces so that each model is a mix of chaos and loyalist components - great for a force that is newly turned (you can see some models I did this to here).  For some players, developing a 40K universe story that explains your use of loyalist models can also help, though does run the risk of annoying opponents who don't like the story.

 

As for tourneys, you need to check with the tournament organizer, though likely the above would help make the models acceptable to an organizer just as it would to an opponent.

 

Edited January 5 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Titus Corvus]

18 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

First of all, welcome to Bolter and Chainsword and the Chaos subforums!

 

I assume you mean death watch vets, as in the loyalist marines?  How do you intend to use them?  Will you be converting them?  How will you be painting them?

 

Playing Warhammer 40K is essentially a social agreement between the players - both players agree to play the games on whatever terms they want.  Normally this is implicit - we are playing this edition, with these armies.  Sometimes it is more explicit - we are playing with this house rule, or these minis here are standing in for some other minis.  So, outside a tournament, where the rules are typically more rigid, whatever goes with your opponent is fine.

 

What is "fine" will depend on who your opponent is and the B&C (or the internet more generally) can't really help you in that respect - you (likely) know your prospective opponents better than we do and in any event if you want to know their opinions, it is better to talk to them than to us about them.  That said, we can provide you with our own opinions on the matter... but as said, that is just our opinions.

 

In my view, generally players see things on kind of a sliding scale, with each player's comfort point falling somewhere along it.  At one end, you have the "purists" where it needs to be the GW provided minis for that unit, with the correct wargear and the correct GW faction paint job (so, for example, Blood Angels and their successors are red - so no blue or green marines using Blood Angels rules).  On the other end are the "anything goes" where it doesn't really matter what you field so long as it is clear what is what.

 

As someone who is more towards the "purist" end of the scale myself, in my view, there are a few factors that you can do to limit whatever issues a player might have with the army, which are (these do overlap, which is why there is some repetition in my discussion):

 

a)  Limit confusion.  Make each unit so that it looks like the chaos unit is representing in some fashion, or at least make it so different types of units (say, chosen and legionaires) are easily visually distinguished from each other.  Try to match the wargear the models have with the wargear in the chaos codex (so, don't field a guy with a rifle as a guy with a pistol or chainsword, don't use models with grav guns as chaos marines don't have them, field a guy with a flamer type weapon as a guy with a flamer, etc) or at minimum make it consistent (so, all guys with grav guns have plasma guns).

 

b)  Make your models look like chaos marines.  Generally players like conversions and people doing neat things with their armies.  If you simply field your DW marines in DW colours, opponents are likely to wonder why you aren't just playing them with the DW rules instead.  But, if you paint them is a scheme that either matches one of the GW chaos factions, or matches the opponent's conception of what a chaos army should look like (and doesn't look like a death watch army) it is more likely to be accepted.

 

c)  Put the effort into it.  If you just plop down your death watch army on the table as chaos, your opponent again will wonder why you aren't just using their proper rules.  If you convert them, fewer opponents will have issues.  One way that can be particularly effective is buying a bunch of chaos models, cutting them and your DW up and swapping pieces so that each model is a mix of chaos and loyalist components - great for a force that is newly turned (you can see some models I did this to here).  For some players, developing a 40K universe story that explains your use of loyalist models can also help, though does run the risk of annoying opponents who don't like the story.

 

As for tourneys, you need to check with the tournament organizer, though likely the above would help make the models acceptable to an organizer just as it would to an opponent.

 

Thank you. Yes death watch vets, i think they mk8 fit well, for represents CSM themed IW warband. I search and found, only one foto of size comparison dw vet and new csm, they height same(mabye i wrong). I can easy represents full wargear on models. My problem, i don't like new csm desing, only alternative is just buy new HH marines.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

While I do like the current chaos marines, you certainly aren't alone in thinking otherwise.  I myself wouldn't be too concerned over the size difference, given such difference is most visible if you have different minis next to each other, which sounds like it won't be a problem.

 

For me, the most distinctive part of the DW models is their DW shoulder pads.  Getting rid of them and replacing them with a generic shoulder pad or custom pads for your warband would go a long way in seperating them (visually) from their loyalist origins.

 

If you want to go the HH route, those minis look particularly nice in iron warriors colours - I know there is at least one poster here who is fielding an army made up of HH minis in 40K at for some reason despite the different minis (most noticeably their 30K weapons) don't seem out of place.

[techsoldaten]

I've been down this route.

 

The issue with Deathwatch Vets is the torso, Legionnaires have noticeably thicker chests by comparison. The difference is slight, and you may find it's fine for your purposes. But I wanted my custom Vets to look more puffed up and ornate than standard CSM troopers.

 

So anything I wanted to do would be a kitbash or custom sculpts.

 

When it comes to weapons, the DW sprue is generous. You will find all sorts of options for Bolt Pistols, Accursed Weapons, Combi-Weapons, and the like. It's not easy to fit the arm pieces onto Legionnaire torsos without a little sculpting, but it can be done.

 

Good luck!