The Old World - pricing and the future

[Kastor Krieg]

Some sources this week indicated that the stark division between Old World and AoS, where "core factions" are old models, and the unsupported "legacy factions" somehow mostly new AoS stuff, is caused by the division between the core Games Workshop business (AoS) and the Specialist Games team. The reasoning is reported to be a very petty one - the unwillingness to allow TOW players to buy AoS minis for their armies and thus messing up the Specialist Games' profits & losses calculations.

 

With that in mind, I had a horrifying realisation - that possibly the same line of thinking caused the division between "Specialist Games / Horus Heresy firstborn Marines" and "Core GW / Primaris Space Marines". If this inanity is even partially the reason GW killed off Firstborn kits and did the whole Primaris thing... Ugh.

[phandaal]

22 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

With that in mind, I had a horrifying realisation - that possibly the same line of thinking caused the division between "Specialist Games / Horus Heresy firstborn Marines" and "Core GW / Primaris Space Marines". If this inanity is even partially the reason GW killed off Firstborn kits and did the whole Primaris thing... Ugh.

 

Someone at the main studio seems to believe that cross-playability will cannibalize sales that would rightfully go to their own department. This absolutely will come to bear in their 40k/HH decisionmaking.

 

I imagine it is even worse with TOW though, because there is the ego factor of not allowing the old game to upstage the newcomer that replaced it.

 

Edited January 9 by phandaal

[Tyriks]

6 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Large boxes of orks, grots, gaunts, cultists and poxwalkers would all make a lot of sense.

Termagants and Hormagaunts would make sense, too. But if they were going to do that I think they'd have done it with the new kits.

[Gamiel]

42 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Some sources this week indicated that the stark division between Old World and AoS, where "core factions" are old models, and the unsupported "legacy factions" somehow mostly new AoS stuff, is caused by the division between the core Games Workshop business (AoS) and the Specialist Games team. The reasoning is reported to be a very petty one - the unwillingness to allow TOW players to buy AoS minis for their armies and thus messing up the Specialist Games' profits & losses calculations.

Just wondering, do we have actual confirmation about this or just internet rumours? 

[Dark Shepherd]

19 minutes ago, Tyriks said:

Termagants and Hormagaunts would make sense, too. But if they were going to do that I think they'd have done it with the new kits.

I got the impression that 40k has more or less limited squad sizes to 10 for easier balance, reign in auras a little, but mainly for game speed?

 

I could be way off though

[Tyriks]

5 minutes ago, Dark Shepherd said:

I got the impression that 40k has more or less limited squad sizes to 10 for easier balance, reign in auras a little, but mainly for game speed?

 

I could be way off though

They can still come in squads of 20 (down from 30) but are sold in boxes of 10

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, Gamiel said:

Just wondering, do we have actual confirmation about this or just internet rumours? 

That's a good question. I know some folks have stated it, and we can infer there's some disconnect there. However, we cannot conclude who drives these decisions, whether it be SDS, mainline studios or, and possibly most likely, someone at a higher level than either. From my experience, that sort of decision usually comes from higher level management wanting to know what bucket is making what amount of money.

 

So while some folks state that it is some direct conflict between the two, and that may in the end be true, I personally think the most likely cause is someone above them giving both of them orders on the matter.

Edited January 9 by WrathOfTheLion

[TheArtilleryman]

2 hours ago, Tyriks said:

Termagants and Hormagaunts would make sense, too. But if they were going to do that I think they'd have done it with the new kits.

Yep, that’s what I meant by gaunts :)

[Rain]

3 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

Someone at the main studio seems to believe that cross-playability will cannibalize sales that would rightfully go to their own department. This absolutely will come to bear in their 40k/HH decisionmaking.

 

I imagine it is even worse with TOW though, because there is the ego factor of not allowing the old game to upstage the newcomer that replaced it.

 

 
I try to be careful with believing rumors that seem to confirm my pre-existing biases, but boy is it hard sometimes.

 

I swear to Khorne, if they take Rhino and LR chassis vehicles away from Chaos for asinine MBA-think reasons, I’m quitting (again.)

[Tyriks]

42 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Yep, that’s what I meant by gaunts :)

Somehow skipped that word completely! 

[Kastor Krieg]

4 hours ago, Gamiel said:

Just wondering, do we have actual confirmation about this or just internet rumours? 

I believe I heard that in one of the recent Painting Phase episodes? Can't be sure though.

[Emperor Ming]

29 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

I believe I heard that in one of the recent Painting Phase episodes? Can't be sure though.

Cant be true, 

 

/looks at chaos dwarfs

[Noserenda]

Its come out of a few places with ears/experience inside GW over the last while, but dont mistake the folks you may have heard of, its a business decision rather than a creative one, with different people making it. 

Its not the reason for Primaris though, GW have pretty much outright said Primaris exist to encourage marine players to buy a whole new army, which seemed to have worked based on the huge sales increases around the time they arrived :D Heresy was fairly negligible as a whole at the time.

[Evil Eye]

Honestly, I'd be OK with 20-strong boxes of Gaunts (assuming the price per model went down of course). 10 gaunts per box at £30+ a box is ridiculous when you consider how many Gaunts are required for an army. Genestealers are one thing, they've always been relatively elite. But Termagants and Hormagaunts? £3 a model when you're likely to be fielding 50 of the little buggers is silly.

[Halandaar]

4 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

Honestly, I'd be OK with 20-strong boxes of Gaunts (assuming the price per model went down of course). 10 gaunts per box at £30+ a box is ridiculous when you consider how many Gaunts are required for an army. Genestealers are one thing, they've always been relatively elite. But Termagants and Hormagaunts? £3 a model when you're likely to be fielding 50 of the little buggers is silly.

 

Agree, but I think there's an element of keeping the entry point "low" (ha) for the core games (40K and AoS).

 

A buy-in of £47.50 for a box of your absolute most basic cannon fodder (Gaunts is a perfect example) is going to be way more off-putting for a new player - especially a younger one and/or their parents - than £30, even if the value is better on a per-model basis.

 

In Heresy (and Old World) this appears to be less of a concern because these games are not really pitched at people who want to dip their toes, they're pitched at the longbeards ready to dump hundreds into massive armies.

 

As a complete aside, if someone wants 20 Gaunts you might as well just buy the Starter Set for £65 rather than the 2 boxes of standalone Gaunts for £60 (unless you really want the variant weapons sprue I guess)

[TheArtilleryman]

Sadly the best way to get hold of the basic troops is to buy them from one of the many sellers who break up the starter sets and sell them on eBay. It’s a great time right now to be a Tyranid player as those Leviathan sets are going insanely cheap on eBay. I have a set I’m trying to sell right now because I bought my son the box for Christmas and he only wants the marines. Problem is nobody wants it because the market is saturated.
 

If you want ‘Nids though it’s the right time because the termagants work out at like £1 each and screamer killers are going for under £20.

 

Edit: amazing though how boxes like the onslaught swarm go the opposite way - they get bought out and then sold online at hiked-up prices. Hmm.

Edited January 10 by TheArtilleryman

[Halandaar]

28 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Sadly the best way to get hold of the basic troops is to buy them from one of the many sellers who break up the starter sets and sell them on eBay. It’s a great time right now to be a Tyranid player as those Leviathan sets are going insanely cheap on eBay.

 

True, although the market I was thinking of in my previous post (kids and parents) aren't necessarily going to have the awareness to go trawling eBay, and in any case this only applies to whoever the antagonist faction is in a given edition anyway. 

[TheArtilleryman]

1 hour ago, Halandaar said:

 

True, although the market I was thinking of in my previous post (kids and parents) aren't necessarily going to have the awareness to go trawling eBay, and in any case this only applies to whoever the antagonist faction is in a given edition anyway. 

Agreed. Although if you want terminators or Sternguard or the other SM stuff the discounts are also big. Not as big as the gribblies but still a lot better than buying the individual stuff.

 

Buying direct is so expensive these days and there are so many cheaper third-party places it’s amazing they still sell anything that way.

[MegaVolt87]

Old plastic kits that have been re-releases for old world look like they have been adjusted for inflation, in that case it's not too egregious. Tomb guard technically are cheaper in the 20 man box. The metals have skyrocketed because they are metal in comparison. This is better than them being failcast for the same money at least- remember when we got failcast because metal mini's were facing the increased materials prices, only for the prices to be more than the metals they replaced? Good times...

 

These old world kits are likely following the HH track, re-designed and/ or reboxed in larger units that work out cheaper even though the unit itself increased in price. Eg- new Mk VI assault squad costs less per model vs the 5 man box it replaced.

 

In 40k, makes sense for xenos hordes like nids to follow that, while primaries, you got a 5 man jump pack squad, why would GW sell you a discount at 10 when the expensive 5 man box sells anyway? The MEQ players in 40k and HH are clearly different markets, hence the pricing and box strategy for the respective customers.