UM Cal-gressor Core and detachments

[Prot]

So I have a game tonight, and what I'm trying to do is make the units I'm working on just fit into an army.

 

As I paint my 4 billionth UM army, it has been slow going. My time sink has been Calgar (he's taking forever) and 6 boltstorm aggressors. This is naturally going to be the core of the army.

 

Up until now I've always just played and assumed everything to be best in the Gladius. But we are seeing some play from competitive players that seem to take advantage of some tricks outside of Gladius.

 

So I'm asking what you folks think is the best detachment for the core I'm planning to use tonight? I realize the other units matter, but this is a big chunk of points once you throw in the Biologus and the Firestorm enhancement (?) and I will base future lists around also maximizing this squad and its potential.

 

Again... am I just best off with Gladius?

[Karhedron]

Gladius allows you to leverage the Aggressor, Biologis and Fire Discipline Enhancement to kick out impressive volumes of fire.

 

Alternatives include the Vanguard Strikeforce and giving the Biologis the infiltration Enhancement. Slightly less firepower but starting off in the midfield is handy for such a valuable unit.

 

Lastly the Firestorm Detachment allows them S5 at close range which is a significant boost.

 

A lot of it depends what else you are running in your army.

[Lord_Ikka]

I'm going to try a version of it with the Firestorm Detachment on Tues. Mainly because I like the versatility of having Assault on everything else, not because it will really benefit Calgar and his boys. 

[Tacitus]

Quote

Alternatives include the Vanguard Strikeforce and giving the Biologis the infiltration Enhancement. Slightly less firepower but starting off in the midfield is handy for such a valuable unit.

 

I tend to try Deep Striking Ultras using Uriel instead of infiltrating with Vanguard - unless I want the other benefits of Vanguard.

 

Of course, I also tend to put Calgar in with 6 BGV instead of Aggressors.  I mean the Calgar + Aggressors is somewhat obvious, but 6 BGV with 2 guards, and Calgar The Beatstick synergizes better I think.   Calgar has the speedy suit of Gravis, but even more so you've got all 9 guys (10 with a LT in BGV Attire with an enhancement) with a 4++, and a ton of MC Power swords.  Deep Strike/Infiltrate that anvil into the key objective - and you can still push 6 Aggs, Cap, and Biologis as a Hammer on the Anvil. 

[Karhedron]

Another option that slipped my mind for the Firestorm detachment is to use Flamestorm Aggressors and a regular Gravis Captain. He can use his Rites of Battle ability to give the Aggressors a free "Immolation Protocols" every turn. On a 6-man squad, that will average 8-ish Mortal Wounds every time they shoot and regular damage on top of that. 

[Prot]

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

Since I've been sticking Calgar with Bolt Aggressors for so many years, I just stuck with that in the Gladius. Utilizing Biologis makes a huge difference with the enhancement. I can't remember the name... Firestorm? Plus the strat for +1 AP and no Cover, in the Dev Doctrine, crit hits on 5+ ... AND the Aggressor Fists being Twin linked makes a huge different IMHO that can't be beat in another detachment. 

 

I played against Votann. I really find this to be a brutal match up for my UM's because I don't take a lot of vehicles by habit, and the Votann have everything "Grudged" by T2 it feels like with the FAQ changes, and it is VERY anti marine shooting. No cover, and  a lot of it is -2 2D which is somewhat mitigated by 3 Damage models, but typical Primaris get smoked by this stuff in volume.

 

He did have 2 hearthguard squads which are like... Termie/Aggressor combo's. Last time I played him he had 3 squads!

 

Anyway, nothing I had did appreciable damage except Calgar and friends. I won the game by 8 points, purely by staying maneuverable. 

 

As a result, I've been fighting this for a very long time, but I'm done with Sternguard. I think they are just deplorable for a new, beautiful sculpted unit, and they feel incredibly appropriate to play with UM but they just utterly fail me every time, and I hate their new rules with the codex.

 

I've probably played them in 20 games now since Leviathan (pre and post codex era) and the only time I get anything out of them is with the 2 new flamer types, and Tiggy pulling off a free overwatch.

 

It's just too expensive and you are living off of rolling 6's to wounds to do any appreciable damage. Even in this game a full squad with 2 flamers, and 8 Sternguard Rifles within Rapid Fire range only managed to kill one bike from a 3 bike squad of Votann. 

 

Second to get removed is going to be Terminators. Again I'm very reluctant to do this as Termies have been some of my favourite models/concepts since the dawn of 3rd edition. But again, they just don't do any damage... especially anything in cover like Votann or just T5 in general which it feels like there's a lot in my meta.. tons of Orks/Votann, DG, etc.

 

I was going to add a Termie Libby to the squad, but it was still so lethargic in testing that I realized it had to be a 10 man squad to warrant the sustained 1 paywall of the libby, but the points are just way too high.

 

I've gone back to reducing the 'fun-elite-do-nothing' units from my UM's to get back to something a little more competitive. This means adding more armour, and less of the elite infantry.

 

Honestly the Eradicators, and Cal-gressors are probably the only two units that had any bite. Calgar and friends managed to own a large chunk of the table for critical early primary scoring. The landraider, termies, sternguard/Tiggy, all have to go. But I'll probably keep the Landraider as my indulgence as it does fit a role.

[Tacitus]

Remember Devastating Wounds don't create Mortal Wounds anymore - they create unsavable wounds - which until/unless there's a FAQ actually helps Immolation Protocols.  Unsavable wounds can't be saved by an invuln vs Mortals  (Tiggy's Hood of Hellfire for example gives a 4+++ vs Mortal Wounds - but Devastating Wounds are no longer Mortal.). 

 

I'd say one of the big "problems" when dealing with Votann is actually the S/T sweet spots.   Heavy Intercessor Heavy Bolt Rifles, MC Power Swords, Burtalis Talon (SWEEP), (Assortedly named rotary) cannon, autocannons,   Stormtalon Gunships, Redemptors, Ballistus, Redeemers, ATVs, Reapers, Grav from Cent Devs especially, Infernus Squads, Predator Destructors, Sternguard Combiweapons, Vanguard Vets - that's all going to be closer to a sweet spot vs the T5/T6 Votann - they don't have a T3/T4 unit so most of those "basic troop+" archetypes start out in a hole.  But you start running 10 Vangaurd Vets with S5 -1 D1 weapons that can jump from combat to combat while they're being shot at by T6 Heavy Intercessors with a default 2A S5 -1 D1 heavy bolt rifle vs their T5/T6 1w 4+ profile will make them have a pretty bad day.   Think of Votann as Orky Custodes and things start slotting into the lists differently. 

 

Based on how often you mention cover, I'm thinking Redeemers carrying Infernus, Heavy Intercessor Spam, and Vanguard Vets - to either ignore or overcome the cover aspect would be a pretty nasty paradigm switch for you. 

 

Edit to Add, Also Calgar (and/or others + BGV) for the S5 -2 D2 wound on a 4+ save on a 6+ would fit in there in a Redeemer as well. 

Edited January 19 by Tacitus

[Prot]

I gave this another shot vs. an Ork player that hasn't lost a game in about 10 games.

 

I made some significant changes because I wanted the list to play better in multiple stages. I was shocked how much better it did. The ork player conceded in T3.

 

I had to find ways to properly protect my zone and of course go after those points deep in the opponent's zone. I felt it played a lot better with a few minor tweaks.  I do think because of the Cal-gressor combo I'm staying with the Gladius for now. It's just a really good utility detachment for this playstyle. 

 

Small, scoring squads that don't cost an arm and a leg made a huge difference too.... I still had fat in the list, but you want to still have some fun. So Uriel and Company of Heroes with Deep strike and the Jump assault intercessors were good examples of this. I think there's a push to get tons of Inceptors in the list but I stuck with just 1 and it was okay.

 

I even added a tiny 3 man Bladeguard squad and this was huge for road blocking, steering opponents and key times. 

 

I kept some of my faves, and re-added the flamer dudes which were great against Orks. Unfortunately I have to say the 10 man Sternguard are staying out as well as the Termies.

[Tacitus]

what did you end up with for a list?