Dealing with C'Tan

[L30n1d4s]

I am having a tough time trying to figure out how to deal with C’Tan, without wasting the entire firepower of my army going into one of them (and still possibly not killing it).

 
Any Astartes players out there cracked the nut on dealing with one or more (as lots of lists have multiple) C’Tan in their recent games, since the new Necron Codex came out?

 
For those who don’t know, all four types of C’Tan are T11, 12W, 4+/4++, halve all incoming damage, and have a 5+ FNP (the Deceiver also has Stealth, so even tougher to kill) – just to give some perspective, it takes an average of 36!! BS3+ Lascannons to kill one of them, using Mathhammer probabilities. To top all this off, the C’Tan get access to Reanimation Protocols and potential healing from nearby Crypteks, so if you don’t kill them all the way, they can reliably replace a lot of their lost wounds.

 
The best answer I have come up with so far is a pair of Grav Cannon Devastator squads, both in in Razorbacks (for full re-rolls to wound for both units), supported by Incursors (for +1 to hit), a Stormspeeder Thunderstrike (for +1 to wound against vehicles/Monsters), and Oath of Moment. Between all of these, average dice should get just enough damage through to completely kill a single C’Tan, but that is still a very “labor-intensive” (and points-intensive… that’s the firepower of 675 points worth of units and your Oath of Moment target dedicated to killing a single enemy Monster).

 
Putting it out to the other SM players here on B&C, has anyone else found a way to deal with these ultra-tough Necron units successfully?

 
Cheers!

Edited January 21 by L30n1d4s

[Sloeberjong]

Well, I play Deathwatch, but i guess the same principle goes. Either ignore and play the objective(s) or focus one round of fire and be done with it. Since it has so many mitigating rules I found lots of dmg 1 shots can and will bring it down. I used a Redemptor, Repulsor, 2 Vet squads with Infernus Heavy Bolters and an indomitor squad with oath of moment and as many bonusses as you can get and you'll bring it down. The lascannons didn't do much tho. the bolter shots did. There's only so much saves you can make. I did use the malleus tactics, so whatever detachment you use, some lethal kind of strat is going to be very helpful.

 

Like I said, ignoring it is fine too. But you really can't afford to use a little bit of firepower on it. Depending on game size obviously. 

[Tacitus]

OC Plasma, Onslaught Gatling, Assault Cannons,  Half of D1 is still D1.   The bigger Damage gun you use, the more they benefit from the damage reduction. 

 

Basically look for high numbers of S6+ D1/D2 attacks you can pair with the +1 to Hit and +1 to wound you were already doing to wound on a 4+.  With 4+/4++ you don't care about armor save mods.  Sadly at S5 vs T11, the Heavy Bolter is too "small" but they're vulnerable to being swarmed by S6 -0 D1 type stuff. 

 

Have you tried 2ish Stormtalon Gunships with twin linked Assault Cannons and Skyhammer Missiles?  It flies so Anti-Fly 2+ is going to be annoying.   Likewise the Icarus Guns/Rockets on Dreads and Repulsors will be irritating "freebie" damage as well.  Redemptors with Heavy Onslaughts, and Icarus Rocket Pods, or Brutalis Talon Sweeps after Icarus Twin Ironhails with Anti-Fly 4+, inpulsors with Ironhail Skytalon Arrays 8 D1 Anti-Fly 4+ shots with Sustained Hits. 

 

Edit to Add:  I also forgot about the Aggressor Bomb though I think that's less optimal than the previous suggestions. 

Edited January 21 by Tacitus

[Karhedron]

Assault Cannons and HOGCs also have the advantage of Devastating Wounds so 6s bypass the 4++.

 

Any tricks that can spam MWs are also worth a look. 10 Infernus Marines in a Firestorm Detachment with Immolation Protocols will put around 6MWs on a C'tan and they can fit in a Drop Pod for easy deployment.

[L30n1d4s]

Good point about Firestorm... with attached Vulkan for full rerolls to Wound and the Strat for +1 to wound, it looks like a squad of 10 Infernus Marines and Immolation Protocols can take down a C'Tan by themselves.

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

Good point about Firestorm... with attached Vulkan for full rerolls to Wound and the Strat for +1 to wound, it looks like a squad of 10 Infernus Marines and Immolation Protocols can take down a C'Tan by themselves.

 

I am not sure about the rules. Even with +1 to Wound, I think Devastating Wounds still only proc on a 6 (but please check as I am not 100% on this). Even without the extra MWs, that will still average 6 MWs and 6 normal wounds so 9 in total once the 4++ kicks in.

 

Trouble is that Vulkan won't fit in a pod so you might need a Repulsor or LR for deployment.

[TheArtilleryman]

13 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

I am not sure about the rules. Even with +1 to Wound, I think Devastating Wounds still only proc on a 6 (but please check as I am not 100% on this). Even without the extra MWs, that will still average 6 MWs and 6 normal wounds so 9 in total once the 4++ kicks in.

 

Trouble is that Vulkan won't fit in a pod so you might need a Repulsor or LR for deployment.

That’s right, devastating wounds only works on a 6, unless you have a rule like anti-infantry 4+, which would make anything 4 or better a crit.

[Sir Clausel]

What about eradicators ? Full rerolls of everything and if they are within halve range they do minimum 3 damage? The halving of damage comes before the melta 2 rule takes effect. 

[Paladin777]

Personally I think I’d try to coordinate dropping an Aggressor bomb (positioned with my Libby Dreadnaught) followed by a charge my vanvet blob (with captain for Str 6 on the charge), popping honor the chapter (for 4+’s to wound). 

 

Probably not easy to pull off, but it would do the business if it works. 

[L30n1d4s]

Well, Firestorm Detachment makes Infernus Marines shoot at S6 at 12" or less... with the D6+3 extra Flamer shots from Vulkan himself (so about 42 hits) and the +1 to wound and then full rerolls, that's an average of about 7 Devasting Wounds and 21 normal Wounds (so, 10-11 get through the 4++ on average), which makes 17-18 Unsaved Wounds... after 5+++ FNPs, that should be just enough to kill a 12W C'Tan.

Edited January 22 by L30n1d4s

[Tacitus]

You don't really need a gimmick though.  The same things you're trying to take to wipe out big bricks of Warriors, Grots, Gants and Gaunts etc  is going to punch into the vulnerability of C'Tan - even more so if you've got the +1 to wound and/or Anti-Fly. 

 

Edit to Add:  Think 3rd Edition Terminators.  Death by a thousand flashlights. 

Edited January 22 by Tacitus

[Karhedron]

15 hours ago, Sir Clausel said:

What about eradicators ? Full rerolls of everything and if they are within halve range they do minimum 3 damage? The halving of damage comes before the melta 2 rule takes effect. 

 

Eradicators look to average 4-5 Wounds for a full 6-man squad. If you are running Firestorm then a Biologis with Forged in Battle for Lethal Hits plus changing one miss to a 6 every turn will boost this significantly.

[Cenobite Terminator]

Not sure it’s been said they hate Lethal hits and the grenade strat.

[Paladin777]

So aggressor bomb the crap out of it… got it!

[justicarius6]

Aggressor Bomb with Marny and a Biologis should do a number on a C'tan, esp. if you OoM it.

[Karhedron]

7 minutes ago, justicarius6 said:

Aggressor Bomb with Marny and a Biologis should do a number on a C'tan, esp. if you OoM it.

 

OK, lets assume 6 Boltstorm Aggressors, Fire Discipline Enhancement, Biologis (for Lethal Hits) and Devastator Doctrine for Sustained Hits 1 and Crits on a 5+ and also OOM.

 

That is 18 TL bolter shots and 21 fragstorm shots (average). That will give an average of 10 Lethal Hits from the bolters and 12 from the Fragstorms. That gives an additional 16 regular hits from the bolters and 18 from the Fragstorms once Sustained hits is factored into account.

 

34 hits will generate about 8 wounds (twin-linked on the bolters) in addition to 22 generated by the Lethal Hits. With a 4++, that equates to about 15 wounds inflicted which should be enough to finish it off, no help required from Marney.

 

So yes, the Aggressor bomb is the antidote for anything that relies on high toughness, Invulns or damage reductions rules.

[L30n1d4s]

I think you are forgetting the FNP 5+, which reduces all that down to 10W, leaving a C'Tan alive on 2W.

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

I think you are forgetting the FNP 5+, which reduces all that down to 10W, leaving a C'Tan alive on 2W.

 

Ah, I haven't had the pleasure of facing a C'tan in 10th so yes, I haven't taken that into account. Still, I think the Aggressor bomb takes a bigger chunk out of a star-god than pretty much anything else in the Marine lineup.

[DemonGSides]

Yeah, Aggressor blob plus one more thing is probably enough.  That's not bad economy for a single turn.

[Karhedron]

And if you are running Gladius, the Aggressor Bomb is a great unit to take anyway.

[justicarius6]

Marny bomb with Biologis and OoM (no additional enhancement) or Doctrines should on average tackle the C'tan if you combine shooting and melee.

[brother_b]

Great topic my regular opponent has a necron army and I’m likely going to face it soon with my admech or GSC. If low enough point levels I’ll bring my white scars but I don’t have quite the necessary load out to deal with them as listed, and I’ve got about 1500 points total.

 

I’ve got one unit of 3 aggressors I’ll

finish up and was contemplating more. This seals it as they’ll do well against other units that present the same type of threat also.

 

And as an Admech player, we got nothing remotely as bad ass as the C’tan, or the other myriad options except maybe a knight to add as an ally.

Bless my White Scars, Emperor, I feel a battle with Crons coming soon!

[Tacitus]

Oh its even easier for Ad Mech - a Datasmith attached to a bunch of Kastellan Robots. 

[brother_b]

16 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Oh its even easier for Ad Mech - a Datasmith attached to a bunch of Kastellan Robots. 

Whew because that’s the only play I felt I had!

[CCE1981]

Looks good that we can deal with one C’tan, now what about the other 5 in the list?  That would be the Three named C’tan then 3x Transcendants?