The 'updated' Codex Astartes

[Paladin777]

Mine fudges the numbers a little, and uses the ‘split’ squads for a total of 20 squads at either 5 or 6 members per squad. Theres also a couple of other composition things that I’m fudging too. For instance, I intend to have a couple squads of infiltrators, as well as 10/6/4 battleline/close support/fire support. 
 

I really don’t want 30 of any of the battleline units. I’ve already got 20 intercessors and that’s plenty!

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

Mine fudges the numbers a little, and uses the ‘split’ squads for a total of 20 squads at either 5 or 6 members per squad. Theres also a couple of other composition things that I’m fudging too. For instance, I intend to have a couple squads of infiltrators, as well as 10/6/4 battleline/close support/fire support. 
 

I really don’t want 30 of any of the battleline units. I’ve already got 20 intercessors and that’s plenty!

Infiltrators are battle line units per shoulderpad, if not per Codex (which is dumb and puts a nail in the 10th Company builder.  But in theory your 2nd Company of Ultramarines might have 60 Intercessor Marines, 20 of which done Gravis Armor and Heavy Intercessors to be Heavy Intercessors, and 20 of which don Phobos Armor and Infiltrator gear to be Infiltrators.  Meanwhile you might have 20 Close Assault Primaris Marines who could kit out as Jump Assault Intercessors, Assault Intercessors, Incursors, etc. 

 

If I were making the choices, I'd make the Infiltrators BATTLELINE for 6 sheets, and most of all I'd make the 3-and-only-3 and the 3-6 units into 3-5 or even better 5 and only 5 but either way.

[Emperor's Angel]

Primaris Battle Company organization is something that I have also attempted to nail down.  I have tried to keep the spirit of the Codex Astartes and how things should be done.  
 

Ultimately what I have decided is a hybrid Horus Heresy/Codex Astartes meld.  The goal is to try to get it to work with 3/5/6/10 whilst not making it seem like an Ad Hoc nightmare.  
 

I organize the 100 Battle Brothers into 20 man elements.  Each element is lead by a Lt.  So yes, 5 LTs per Company.  I know… it’s a stretch here but I’ll explain why I do it later.

 

So in a battle company, there are 3 battle line elements, 1 fast attack element, and 1 heavy support element.

 

In each element are 2 veteran sgts and 2 sgts.  So when it comes to battle line squads this is fairly simple.  You can do 2 ten man squads or 4 five man squads.  And as long as the vet sgt and sgt are distinguishable, I can break them/combine them as needed.  Of course the regular sgts have to not have any special equipment.  Just a red skull or something.

In the Fast Attack and Heavy Support Elements is where we see the prevalence of three man squads.  I just keep to my rule.  There is one Lt, 2 Vet Sgts, and 2 Sgts.  So if I can do 5/10 man squads they organize just like the battle line elements do.  But they can also do the 3-6 man squad too.

 

Lets assume the Fast Attack Element of 2nd Company is going all Gravis Inceptor armor.  They can divide into 2 six man teams and 3 three man teams.  When operating like this, all I have to do is paint one of the squad leaders as a Lt.  Maybe spice it up a bit with some extra bits.  But functionally, they will only operate mechanically like a Sgt.  which is ok, maybe these are Jr LTs, not as prestigious as the battle line LTs are.  And it’s not like I can buy an Inceptor Lt anyway.  And when it comes to the tabletop, I’m probably never going to see a fully realized assault and support elements.  So it’s up to me how I paint them, unless I’m throwing down the whole company in one game.

 

What I have to drop, is labeling squad number.  Because the squads are ad hoc.  But the Element number will never change.  So each twenty man element (and the related Lt) will either have a I, II, III, IV, V on them.  
 

The way I figure it… is the Battle Company can organize into 3 main fighting groups centered around a Battle Line element.  With the Assault and Heavy elements sprinkling their assets between each one.

 

And this also helps me think about Reserve Company reinforcements.  These would be assigned via elements.  And each element would have its own officer that goes with them.  Same with reinforcements from the 1st Company.  I just need a Terminator Lt.

 

I should just call it a Platoon instead of element.  It just doesn’t seem Space Marine enough… which I know is odd… because I have terms like squad and sgt.  Why does that bother me?  IDK.

 

So in this regard…

 

5 marines (Captain and 4 Company Heroes)

 

5 marines (The LTs)

 

100 marines (The 5 platoons)

 

110 marines in a Company not including specialists assigned from the HQ Company. 
 

And this still keeps the 60/20/20 spread.  Hope Guilliman doesn’t mind I added 3 LTs to his Company organization…  I like it anyway.

[Tacitus]

19 minutes ago, Emperor's Angel said:

Primaris Battle Company organization is something that I have also attempted to nail down.  I have tried to keep the spirit of the Codex Astartes and how things should be done.  
 

Ultimately what I have decided is a hybrid Horus Heresy/Codex Astartes meld.  The goal is to try to get it to work with 3/5/6/10 whilst not making it seem like an Ad Hoc nightmare.  
 

I organize the 100 Battle Brothers into 20 man elements.  Each element is lead by a Lt.  So yes, 5 LTs per Company.  I know… it’s a stretch here but I’ll explain why I do it later.

 

So in a battle company, there are 3 battle line elements, 1 fast attack element, and 1 heavy support element.

 

In each element are 2 veteran sgts and 2 sgts.  So when it comes to battle line squads this is fairly simple.  You can do 2 ten man squads or 4 five man squads.  And as long as the vet sgt and sgt are distinguishable, I can break them/combine them as needed.  Of course the regular sgts have to not have any special equipment.  Just a red skull or something.

In the Fast Attack and Heavy Support Elements is where we see the prevalence of three man squads.  I just keep to my rule.  There is one Lt, 2 Vet Sgts, and 2 Sgts.  So if I can do 5/10 man squads they organize just like the battle line elements do.  But they can also do the 3-6 man squad too.

 

Lets assume the Fast Attack Element of 2nd Company is going all Gravis Inceptor armor.  They can divide into 2 six man teams and 3 three man teams.  When operating like this, all I have to do is paint one of the squad leaders as a Lt.  Maybe spice it up a bit with some extra bits.  But functionally, they will only operate mechanically like a Sgt.  which is ok, maybe these are Jr LTs, not as prestigious as the battle line LTs are.  And it’s not like I can buy an Inceptor Lt anyway.  And when it comes to the tabletop, I’m probably never going to see a fully realized assault and support elements.  So it’s up to me how I paint them, unless I’m throwing down the whole company in one game.

 

What I have to drop, is labeling squad number.  Because the squads are ad hoc.  But the Element number will never change.  So each twenty man element (and the related Lt) will either have a I, II, III, IV, V on them.  
 

The way I figure it… is the Battle Company can organize into 3 main fighting groups centered around a Battle Line element.  With the Assault and Heavy elements sprinkling their assets between each one.

 

And this also helps me think about Reserve Company reinforcements.  These would be assigned via elements.  And each element would have its own officer that goes with them.  Same with reinforcements from the 1st Company.  I just need a Terminator Lt.

 

I should just call it a Platoon instead of element.  It just doesn’t seem Space Marine enough… which I know is odd… because I have terms like squad and sgt.  Why does that bother me?  IDK.

 

So in this regard…

 

5 marines (Captain and 4 Company Heroes)

 

5 marines (The LTs)

 

100 marines (The 5 platoons)

 

110 marines in a Company not including specialists assigned from the HQ Company. 
 

And this still keeps the 60/20/20 spread.  Hope Guilliman doesn’t mind I added 3 LTs to his Company organization…  I like it anyway.

I think this is close to what I do in my head.  There are 60 Battle Line Marines, 20 Close Assault and 20 Heavy Support which will all go through an If/Then/Else style decision tree to determine their equipment load - Gravis, Phobos, Jumps, etc.  In other words the first ten Battleline marines are always a squad, but they could be Heavy Intercessors, Intercessors, or Infiltrators depending on mission needs, but they're always Squad Attilius.  The next 10 go through a similar but seperate mission needs decision tree but are always Squad Elias.   Meanwhile the last 10 go through a different tree, and might end up as 5 Desolators in Squad Ozias, while the "veteran" from past squad descriptions and Combat Squadding would get a temorary brevet to Sergeat of Squad Lazarus consisting of 5 Eradicators.  

 

Edit to add:  Assuming the switch of the lame 3 or 3/6 squads into 5's for divide into 100 math.  One could also fluff a 6 person Eradicator sqaud by seconding Primaris Marine Constantine to the company on his completion of service in the 10th company, and assorted Reserves company graduating to a Battle Company that doesn't yet have a 100 spot for him until casualties create an opening which then causes a fill in from the bottom.  One could assume Marines who have "graduated" from the Reserve Companies metriculate to the Battle Companies as vehicle pilots pending a permanent posting caused by casualty reinforcements - which makes more sense than a Strike Cruiser lightyears from Chapter Command reporting 20 dead Marines that need replacing. 

Edited February 6 by Tacitus

[Emperor's Angel]

I guess It all comes down to how a Space Marine promotes.  
 

As I understand it… once Space Marines graduate from the 10th company and get their power armor (let’s ignore Phobos for right now).  They then spend time in the 9th company… then the 8th… then the 6th or 7th.  

I like to think that a miniature version of this happens in the Battle Company itself.  The newest transfers from the 6th and 7th Companies start in the Heavy Support, then to the Assault element… and finally into the tactical squads.

 

So it makes sense to me… to always be moving warriors around to insure your battle line squads are fully manned.  They form the 20 man base of the strike force.  And your Battle Line squads are seen as the most trained and flexible marines.  So if a Company is under strength due to losses… it should be felt in the assault and heavy support elements first.  Which makes the 3 and 6 man squads make sense in that regard.

 

It makes sense in my head.  I don’t even like thinking about transports and vehicles lol.  Honestly… in my opinion… unless we are talking Dreads… I think all Chapter vehicles… dropships, tanks, apcs… should either be Chapter serfs or machine spirits or mind wiped servitors integrated into the hull.  So much resources are spent in lives, geneseed and time to get 1 Space Marine into a suit of power armor… that it would make me sick to put him in a Tank or Aircraft as a pilot/driver.  I would outsource it.  I don’t need a super soldier to drive a tank and run a pintle mounted storm bolter.  
 

… yeah I would just mind wipe and servitor-ize every failed marine applicant and plug them in my vehicles.  Do some of that tech marine :cuss:.

[AutumnEffect]

15 minutes ago, Emperor's Angel said:

It makes sense in my head.  I don’t even like thinking about transports and vehicles lol.  Honestly… in my opinion… unless we are talking Dreads… I think all Chapter vehicles… dropships, tanks, apcs… should either be Chapter serfs or machine spirits or mind wiped servitors integrated into the hull.  So much resources are spent in lives, geneseed and time to get 1 Space Marine into a suit of power armor… that it would make me sick to put him in a Tank or Aircraft as a pilot/driver.  I would outsource it.  I don’t need a super soldier to drive a tank and run a pintle mounted storm bolter.  
 

… yeah I would just mind wipe and servitor-ize every failed marine applicant and plug them in my vehicles.  Do some of that tech marine :cuss:.

 

Another option would be to have Scouts and other combat ready aspirants take on the role of vehicle operator.

 

Gets them combat experience while in a somewhat protected environment while still giving you the flexibility and initiative a non-lobotomized mind has.

As an added plus you can shove them out of the way and take over operations if necessary rather than needing to unplug and dump a Servitor that's having a fit because a Warpsmith half a kilometer away is spitting sick scrap-code at it.

Dan Abnett has given some tacit approval to your servitor plan though. In the Gaunt's Ghosts novel Salvation's Reach an Astartes Caestus Assault Ram is piloted by a Servitor that was a failed aspirant so there's some Black Library precedent.

Edited February 6 by AutumnEffect

[Emperor's Angel]

Hehe… the idea that my mind wiped servitor pilot thing is freaking the heck out due to the sick and twisted warp fueled machinations of a 10,000 year old technowitch space marine demon thing sounds metal as hell.

 

“Brother Grimm, please give that thing the Emperor’s peace and grab the wheel”

 

I love 40k.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Emperor's Angel said:

I guess It all comes down to how a Space Marine promotes.  
 

As I understand it… once Space Marines graduate from the 10th company and get their power armor (let’s ignore Phobos for right now).  They then spend time in the 9th company… then the 8th… then the 6th or 7th.  

I like to think that a miniature version of this happens in the Battle Company itself.  The newest transfers from the 6th and 7th Companies start in the Heavy Support, then to the Assault element… and finally into the tactical squads.

 

So it makes sense to me… to always be moving warriors around to insure your battle line squads are fully manned.  They form the 20 man base of the strike force.  And your Battle Line squads are seen as the most trained and flexible marines.  So if a Company is under strength due to losses… it should be felt in the assault and heavy support elements first.  Which makes the 3 and 6 man squads make sense in that regard.

 

It makes sense in my head.  I don’t even like thinking about transports and vehicles lol.  Honestly… in my opinion… unless we are talking Dreads… I think all Chapter vehicles… dropships, tanks, apcs… should either be Chapter serfs or machine spirits or mind wiped servitors integrated into the hull.  So much resources are spent in lives, geneseed and time to get 1 Space Marine into a suit of power armor… that it would make me sick to put him in a Tank or Aircraft as a pilot/driver.  I would outsource it.  I don’t need a super soldier to drive a tank and run a pintle mounted storm bolter.  
 

… yeah I would just mind wipe and servitor-ize every failed marine applicant and plug them in my vehicles.  Do some of that tech marine :cuss:.

From what I remember they go from 10th to Dev Reserve Company(9), to Assault Reserve Company(8), to Battleline reserve (6 and 7) to Dev squad in Battle company, to Assault, to Tactical - so even in the company they advance inside of it.

 

1 hour ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

Another option would be to have Scouts and other combat ready aspirants take on the role of vehicle operator.

 

Gets them combat experience while in a somewhat protected environment while still giving you the flexibility and initiative a non-lobotomized mind has.

As an added plus you can shove them out of the way and take over operations if necessary rather than needing to unplug and dump a Servitor that's having a fit because a Warpsmith half a kilometer away is spitting sick scrap-code at it.

Dan Abnett has given some tacit approval to your servitor plan though. In the Gaunt's Ghosts novel Salvation's Reach an Astartes Caestus Assault Ram is piloted by a Servitor that was a failed aspirant so there's some Black Library precedent.

Not the scouts, but that was how it was explained - vehicle crew come from the reserve companies.  I just take it the next step further.  Reserve Company Marines ready to be promoted to battle companies get sent to them as vehicle crew so they're already in system if the company squads need reinforcing - I figure they're part of the "Support Personnel" of the Headquarters Staff which is why they're not part of the 1000 cap while they're unassigned. 

[Paladin777]

7 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Infiltrators are battle line units per shoulderpad, if not per Codex (which is dumb and puts a nail in the 10th Company builder.  But in theory your 2nd Company of Ultramarines might have 60 Intercessor Marines, 20 of which done Gravis Armor and Heavy Intercessors to be Heavy Intercessors, and 20 of which don Phobos Armor and Infiltrator gear to be Infiltrators.  Meanwhile you might have 20 Close Assault Primaris Marines who could kit out as Jump Assault Intercessors, Assault Intercessors, Incursors, etc. 

 

If I were making the choices, I'd make the Infiltrators BATTLELINE for 6 sheets, and most of all I'd make the 3-and-only-3 and the 3-6 units into 3-5 or even better 5 and only 5 but either way.

I was more referring to Phobos units at large supposedly being relegated to the 10th (vanguard) chapter. 

[Tacitus]

22 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

I was more referring to Phobos units at large supposedly being relegated to the 10th (vanguard) chapter. 

I don't remember they are.  AFAIK they're not necessarily detached from the 10th company to a Battle Company like scouts were, they're just another armor/weapon/equipment set for the rank and file Marines already in the Battle Company like Gravis. 

 

That said I'm sure the 10th company can easily have 60 Infiltrators/(New)Scout Squads, 20 Incursors, and some Eliminators plus some Warsuits for Heavy Support:

 

- and I wouldn't be surprised to see some fluff changes like progression through the 10th company is Scouts, Warsuit Pilot, Eliminators, Incursors, Infiltrators but that's a guess on my part. 

[Emperor's Angel]

5 hours ago, Tacitus said:

I don't remember they are.  AFAIK they're not necessarily detached from the 10th company to a Battle Company like scouts were, they're just another armor/weapon/equipment set for the rank and file Marines already in the Battle Company like Gravis. 

 

That said I'm sure the 10th company can easily have 60 Infiltrators/(New)Scout Squads, 20 Incursors, and some Eliminators plus some Warsuits for Heavy Support:

 

- and I wouldn't be surprised to see some fluff changes like progression through the 10th company is Scouts, Warsuit Pilot, Eliminators, Incursors, Infiltrators but that's a guess on my part. 

I think (going off memory) that the 10th Company is now the Vanguard with Phobos equipped marines AND Scouts.  Which to me is just lazy… and not needed because of how marines can just adjust their power armor to the different configurations.  Phobos allows all battle companies to field a scout force.  Just like Gravis allows all battle companies to focus as a slower siege force.

 

I would just have 3 reserve battle line companies, 1 assault, 1 heavy support.  And say Scouts (which thematically I don’t even know why they are needed now that Phobos exists) are relegated to HQ company assets dolled out to the various companies for missions until they get full power armor… and then inducted into the 10th Company.

[Xenith]

The 3 and 6 man units are just battlefield formations, and do not reflect company strength. Remember that an old attack bike unit had 2, 4 or 6 marines, who would be in a specific squad. The others might be in an assault squad, or be in a speeder. The 6th tactical reserve company was trained to fight entirely on bikes if needed, and the 7th tactical reserve company could be entirely in speeders. 

 

For my Flesh Eaters, squad 13 is a close support unit, and has 3 on outrider bikes, one is in an invictor, and another 2 will be on an ATV. In-universe it might be that some day all 10 of the unit fight as a single reiver or incursor squad, however those same marines still all make up squad 13. 

 

In the new codex, the squads are stil 10 strong, and the company has been expanded to 200 marines, so 20 squads of 10 marines each, which then break into the various battle formations. one squad might form 3x3 man units of inceptors, and the last guy drives an impulsor. It's all pretty fluid now. 

Edited February 7 by Xenith

[jaxom]

On 1/22/2024 at 4:11 PM, Valkyrion said:

I've gone backwards in time since 7th edition, so with regards to being as official as we can, which is it per standard battle company; 

20 x 5 man squads 

10 x 10 man squads but 10 man ideal squad size

10 x squads, but some will only be 3 man or 5 man but the 10 squad limit is not exceeded.

20 x squads, be they 3 man, 5 man or 10 man but cannot number more than 100 in total

20 x squad, be they 3 man, 5 man or 10 man but CAN number over and above the 100 nominal limit.

Something else I've not considered.

 

Thanks!

I don't know why there seems to be ambiguity on the matter. There are only two relevant changes and they're conceptual extensions of the old Codex Astartes. Each company contains 100 Battle Brothers split into 10 squads. The old classifications of squad type matched the only squads available at the time. New squads in those roles led to a change in the names:

• 6 Tactical Squads (10 x 6) --> 6 Battleline Squads (10 x 6)
• 2 Assault Squads (10 x 2) --> 2 Close Support Squads (10 x 2)
• 2 Devastator Squads (10 x 2) --> 2 Fire Support Squads (10 x 2)

The old squads are examples of the new classifications, but no longer the only examples.

 

The second relevant change is how Combat Squads work. Previously, a squad of 10 Battle-Brothers could split into two Combat Squads for "increased tactic flexibility." The two new Squads were smaller versions of the same unit, because that's all that existed at the time. Many players represented this as two 5-man squads where one had a Veteran Sergeant and one had a Veteran Battle-Brother or Corporeal, rather than use actual Combat Squad rules (assuming they existed as some editions had them and some did not). A bike formation was technically six bikers, a land speeder, and an attack for a total of 10 Battle-Brothers. Combat Squading them (in lore) resulted in two formations; each with three Bikes and a 'fire support' element of either the Land Speeder or the Attack Bike; I don't think that was represented on the table top except maybe the Ravenwing at some point?

 

The new Combat Squad concept allows a squad to split in any way that supports combinations of game-legal units. For example, a Close Support Squad can split its Battle-Brothers into Combat Squads of 3 Bikers, 5 Jump Assault Intercessors, and a Storm Speeder crew. This also helped lore writers explain vehicle crews: yes, there are some dedicated tank crews, but many vehicles can be crewed at the company level this way so there aren't an extra 150-300 marines per Chapter just for vehicles.

 

@Mr. Oddity has provided an excellent example of how a Company might look like taking all this account. I've done something similar to show what it looks like in different gene-lines. I'll try to find it and edit into this post.

 

Edit: 

 

Edited February 11 by jaxom

[Lord_Caerolion]

The only other thing that got changed was allowing a seconded squad from a Reserve Company to temporarily be designated the 11th squad of the Battle Company, for example. 
I’ve seen people claiming this means the Codex has doubled Company sizes and thus Chapter sizes, but forget that what it really means is that 2nd Company temporarily has 11 squads, but 8th Company temporarily only has 9.