Karhedron Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) On 1/24/2024 at 11:59 PM, TempestBlade said: Anyone else considering adding some vanguard vets to the Inner Circle detachment? I was thinking 2 SS and 3 meltapistols. That is how I am running my BA Van Vets. +1 to Wound really benefits both the Relic Weapons (2+ vs MEQs) and the Inferno Pistols (4+ vs most vehicles/monsters). On 1/26/2024 at 4:14 AM, Tacitus said: The big one: The Hunt for the Fallen thing is about to get RetConned/abandoned pretty hard. I am not sure about that. The Hunt seems to be very much still a thing. The only difference now is that Lion is the final judge over the Fallen that are captured. Those he deems innocent of the treachery on Caliban are spared (and may be the new Inner Circle Companions once they have been Rubiconed). Edited February 5 by Karhedron Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382171-the-silver-lining/page/2/#findComment-6021025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 15 minutes ago, Karhedron said: Pretty well I think. They are basically better Intercessors but the latest points drop has them cost the same as Intercessors did at the start of 10th. Any unit with OC1 is going to benefit most from Grim Resolve as half of 1 rounded up is still 1. At 90 points for a squad, they add some cheap(ish) bodies for Objective Camping while still fitting the 1st company theme if you wish. They don't have any obvious synergies. They'll do OK, the Inner Circle Task Force hits them a little. In something occuring far too often, the Inner Circle Task Force actually interacts with Vanguard Vets even more and in more interesting ways given bespoke VV rules on successfull charge and so many of the Strats being Deathwing Fight Phase, Deathwing Deep Strike, and Deathwing Fight Phase again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382171-the-silver-lining/page/2/#findComment-6021030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Karhedron said: I am not sure about that. The Hunt seems to be very much still a thing. The only difference now is that Lion is the final judge over the Fallen that are captured. Those he deems innocent of the treachery on Caliban are spared (and may be the new Inner Circle Companions once they have been Rubiconed). It's also really the only logical move forward with how they describe the events at Caliban happening. It's pretty cemented at this point that the vast majority of them had no clue what was happening, which means what really matters is what they did afterwards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382171-the-silver-lining/page/2/#findComment-6021049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 13 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said: It's also really the only logical move forward with how they describe the events at Caliban happening. It's pretty cemented at this point that the vast majority of them had no clue what was happening, which means what really matters is what they did afterwards. The logical move for the Lion is to send some Inner Circle Champions out to collect the remaining "good" Fallen. They're the best advocate he has to the remaining Fallen, as well as equipped with the secrets necessary to find them. Then give them signals to summon the Raven- and Death Wings for the Fallen that have.... fallen. crimsondave 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382171-the-silver-lining/page/2/#findComment-6021202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion El Jason Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 22 hours ago, Tacitus said: All TDA and Dreads could get Assault Cannons in 2nd Ed - and I'm pretty sure I'm not misremembering. I've got the Codex UM and the Codex Angels of Death. In 2nd Ed Power swords were S5. Power Axes (which is what Dante had because they hadn't named and specialized his axe yet had two profiles 1h=S5/2h=S6, Azrael's Sword of Secrets was already a thing, and was S6. Logan Grimnar's Axe Morkai was a thing, and was always S6. He also had a Power Fist as he was in Terminator Armor- but the bonus to the Axe made it preferred most of the time. The Heavy Bolter is included in my 2nd Ed Codex UM for Devastator Squads. I just pulled out the three codices, and the Wargear book from my 2nd Edition box, so what am I misremembering here? OK... Dante had the Inferno Pistol which was Str 8 and could be used to strike hits in melee. Logan Grimnar and Calgar had power fists at Str 8 Azrael only had Str 6. (He was also the only chapter master with WS7). Maybe I wasn't clear about the HB and AC, I was of course refering to the Landspeeder options. You can check your AoD codex for that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382171-the-silver-lining/page/2/#findComment-6021256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Lion El Jason said: OK... Dante had the Inferno Pistol which was Str 8 and could be used to strike hits in melee. Logan Grimnar and Calgar had power fists at Str 8 Azrael only had Str 6. (He was also the only chapter master with WS7). Maybe I wasn't clear about the HB and AC, I was of course refering to the Landspeeder options. You can check your AoD codex for that. He was also the only one with an Area of Effect Invulnerable vs S8 -3 Pie Plates of Death, he was also the only one with Immunity to Psychology. Dante and Logan were the only ones with Strategy Rating 5. Marneus was the only one without a defensive ability - I would have said Field but they did harder to hit and Terminator Armor for Logan. All of them got what was assumed to be a little bump or valley here and there. Ultramarines were the only ones with what would become Sternguard Veterans, Blood Angels were the only ones with what would become Vanguard Veterans. Space Wolves were the only ones with bonus "sergeants" before Sergeant Telion. Honor Guard started out as UM only, then went to everyone. UM started with Doctrines then everybody got them. And of course the Land Raider Crusader started in the Black Templar 4th Ed, before going to everyone in 5th Ed. Cassius went from an Ultramarine Chaplain, to shared with the Deathwatch, to not even in the UM Codex anymore. UM are the only ones not to get a Chapter Specific vehicle between Librarian Dreads, Dark Talons, and Stormfangs. They got a unique pilot. Every (Big Four) Chapter has had at least one turn as the Test Bed For The Next Big Thing. UM having been the Poster Boy Faces Of The Franchise for so long have that turn more often than most, but that doesn't mean they were the only ones either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382171-the-silver-lining/page/2/#findComment-6021304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion El Jason Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Now you're just naming rules. I think you've missed the point. None of your examples fit the discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382171-the-silver-lining/page/2/#findComment-6021355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 2/6/2024 at 9:49 AM, Lion El Jason said: Now you're just naming rules. I think you've missed the point. None of your examples fit the discussion. You said the DA are the test bed for all the rules before everybody gets them. I point out that's a "Grass is greener" issue, and point out a bunch of rules/units/etc that didn't start with the Dark Angels. Which you say don't fit the discussion. It sounds like your fiction is more important than the facts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382171-the-silver-lining/page/2/#findComment-6021846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion El Jason Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 No, I said Dark Angels get DARK ANGEL SPECIFIC stuff that then (If its good) is handed out to the other factions AND THEN DA LOSE IT. You have basically only said "Some codexes are released before others". Please understand the discussion before posting again. Cpt. Bannockburn and FarFromSam 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382171-the-silver-lining/page/2/#findComment-6021937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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