Strikemaster/Talonmaster

[Tacitus]

Got my hands on the codex today and I noticed something.  Strike Masters and Talon Masters are still in the codex, while Cassius is not in the SM Codex (My guess is Cassius is going back to Deathwatch and will be in that codex) - and the two Sergeats (Telion and Chronus) aren't mentioned either and I'm guessing are gone.  This makes me think the Strike Master and Talon Master are getting a re-release similar to the updated/rereleased Gravis Captain/Power Sword Ancient.

[Marshall Bretton]

That's interesting, is there anything else we thought had been removed still in?

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Marshall Bretton said:

That's interesting, is there anything else we thought had been removed still in?

I should clarify - they're still in the "fluff" - they have their own little section of the two company pages.   So there isn't a datasheet, but they're still referenced.  Other things that have been removed have no reference to speak of. 

[FarFromSam]

Good eye, glad to see them still in the fluff. This looks like more bad GW work out in the open.  Oops.  They don't invest effort into the lore or rules and it shows.

[NTaW]

I feel like both models could easily be represented on an upgrade sprue, similar to how there's a Necron upgrade sprue for the Kill Team box that can be used to make Immortal models into a Royal Warden and a Cryptek (there's also two Plasmacytes on the sprue, which are token units like Watchers in the Dark).

 

What's two more Lieutenant options, right? There's only 6 on the webstore right now. We gotta pump those numbers up.

[WrathOfTheLion]

GW will also do bizarre stuff sometimes, canning a unit because the model isn't available, only to bring it back later in some capacity.

 

The CSM rumors are a prime example, where they may get a jump pack lord after having it just deleted in their 9E codex.

[crimsondave]

41 minutes ago, FarFromSam said:

Good eye, glad to see them still in the fluff. This looks like more bad GW work out in the open.  Oops.  They don't invest effort into the lore or rules and it shows.

I already gave up on the rules.  I hope the lore effort doesn’t get as bad as the rules.

[Marshall Bretton]

2 hours ago, crimsondave said:

I already gave up on the rules.  I hope the lore effort doesn’t get as bad as the rules.

Yeah I'd love a summary of any changes or new stuff from anyone that has the book

[Lion El Jason]

Power Armour in the 1st company is already taking a dump in the mouth of anyone who ever wrote good lore before.

[Tokugawa]

If Talon Master returned, it would certainly mounted on new storm speeder chassis, possibly with better weapons. 

 

Rules wise, giving such a flying tank "look out sir" or "lone operative" or whatever non-targetable type protection is ridiculous. So the function of the unit would change towards "tank ace/tank commander".

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

If Talon Master returned, it would certainly mounted on new storm speeder chassis, possibly with better weapons. 

 

Rules wise, giving such a flying tank "look out sir" or "lone operative" or whatever non-targetable type protection is ridiculous. So the function of the unit would change towards "tank ace/tank commander".

I think that is why the Talonmaster went away so it could come back in a Storm Speeder of some kind - or potentially an Outrider bike.   Though I'm not expecting it anytime soon.   I expect an update to the Ravenwing Command Squad to allow Bike Chaplains and Sammael to co-join first. 

[moi_a_mania]

The Ravenwing key word is not limited to certain units as it's states "All Flying Units". 

 

I'm reading this as Stormravens, Storm Talons, etc.  Could GW be phasing out Land Speeders only to have them replaced with other flying units instead?

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, moi_a_mania said:

The Ravenwing key word is not limited to certain units as it's states "All Flying Units". 

 

I'm reading this as Stormravens, Storm Talons, etc.  Could GW be phasing out Land Speeders only to have them replaced with other flying units instead?

No, they just refreshed the range with Storm Speeders.  This is a SOP to the original Dark Talon etc, warped out to the Raven/Eagle that's not DA "legal".  Its stupid.  The Storm Raven is Deathwing, the Storm Talon should be Green Wing. 

 

Edit to add:  Some Ravens should be Greenwing as well, just like some Land Raiders should be Greenwing.  Azrael would get in a Green Land Raider not a white one.

Edited February 5 by Tacitus

[Lion El Jason]

5 hours ago, Tacitus said:

No, they just refreshed the range with Storm Speeders.  This is a SOP to the original Dark Talon etc, warped out to the Raven/Eagle that's not DA "legal".  Its stupid.  The Storm Raven is Deathwing, the Storm Talon should be Green Wing. 

 

Edit to add:  Some Ravens should be Greenwing as well, just like some Land Raiders should be Greenwing.  Azrael would get in a Green Land Raider not a white one.

 

Personally I prefer the original colours, only TDA in white, ALL Land Raiders and vehicles in green.
I also think white Land Raiders look bad but that is subjective of course.

 

[phandaal]

20 hours ago, crimsondave said:

I already gave up on the rules.  I hope the lore effort doesn’t get as bad as the rules.

 

My fear is that the lesson GW learned from the End Times pushback was not that they shouldn't do it to 40k, but that they should just draw it out for longer.

 

The lore nowadays feels mostly focused on escalation. So who knows what new units will appear or what will return or be deleted.

 

Maybe Ravenwing will reform to be nothing but Talonmasters, and everything with wheels will inexplicably be deleted without any kind of warning.

[Tacitus]

2 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

My fear is that the lesson GW learned from the End Times pushback was not that they shouldn't do it to 40k, but that they should just draw it out for longer.

 

The lore nowadays feels mostly focused on escalation. So who knows what new units will appear or what will return or be deleted.

 

Maybe Ravenwing will reform to be nothing but Talonmasters, and everything with wheels will inexplicably be deleted without any kind of warning.

I don't think they're "End Times"ing 40K, I think they're pushing a major model refresh, especially for Space Marines which so many people collect primarily from value set boxes from 10 years ago and haven't had to buy a kit in years.   I think this was aimed at all the 30-40 year olds who had a few thousand points of marines and no reason to buy another Tac Squad because the flashy bit on the legplate was new but served no purpose.

[phandaal]

1 minute ago, Tacitus said:

I don't think they're "End Times"ing 40K, I think they're pushing a major model refresh, especially for Space Marines which so many people collect primarily from value set boxes from 10 years ago and haven't had to buy a kit in years.   I think this was aimed at all the 30-40 year olds who had a few thousand points of marines and no reason to buy another Tac Squad because the flashy bit on the legplate was new but served no purpose.

 

These two things are not mutually exclusive.

[Tacitus]

15 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

These two things are not mutually exclusive.

They already split into 40K/Horus Heresy.  And they're reopening Fantasy as The Old World, suggesting they've learned that lesson. They already renamed 40K stuff for IP which is the assumed reason for the actual End Times and "name" changes.  There's no benefit to End Times'ing 40K.  

[phandaal]

2 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

They already split into 40K/Horus Heresy.  And they're reopening Fantasy as The Old World, suggesting they've learned that lesson. They already renamed 40K stuff for IP which is the assumed reason for the actual End Times and "name" changes.  There's no benefit to End Times'ing 40K.  

 

Tell that to Games Workshop, not me.

 

You are thinking too literally though. They aren't going to delete the setting and replace it whole cloth - they are going to escalate things in the current setting.

[FarFromSam]

32 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

I don't think they're "End Times"ing 40K, I think they're pushing a major model refresh, especially for Space Marines which so many people collect primarily from value set boxes from 10 years ago and haven't had to buy a kit in years.   I think this was aimed at all the 30-40 year olds who had a few thousand points of marines and no reason to buy another Tac Squad because the flashy bit on the legplate was new but served no purpose.

 

 

The new terminator resize proves that when you rescale a model well, people will buy loads of them.

  Primaris is a bad lore chasing an excuse to secure IP for copyrighting.  Idk what the floating tank are.   

I wouldn't put anything past GW, but  you're right about 40k and end times being unlikely.  We hope.

[Tacitus]

14 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

Tell that to Games Workshop, not me.

 

You are thinking too literally though. They aren't going to delete the setting and replace it whole cloth - they are going to escalate things in the current setting.

That's what End Times mean - the killed off Fantasy and replaced with AOS in whole cloth.  As for the setting, they're constantly advancing it in meaningless ways.  Cadia Fell, but nothing really happened other than a new Cadian top dog.   Guilliman was fighting off two Daemon Primarchs of Chaos, but neither Terra nor Macragge fell, and neither Primarch linked up with the other.  Now it's 2v3 and we're still not seeing them teaming up, though I suspect that disruption will happen as soon as Guilliman and Lion finally meet. 

[Tacitus]

14 hours ago, FarFromSam said:

 

 

The new terminator resize proves that when you rescale a model well, people will buy loads of them.

  Primaris is a bad lore chasing an excuse to secure IP for copyrighting.  Idk what the floating tank are.   

I wouldn't put anything past GW, but  you're right about 40k and end times being unlikely.  We hope.

I don't think Primaris was for IP.  They'd already done the Adeptus Astartes thing.  I think it was solely to swap out entire chunks of preexisting Marine Armies for sales.  Intercessors dropped to replace Tacs.  They sucked.  They were improved to be way better than Tacs to the point Tacs had to be buffed to just below them.  Rinse and Repeat on multiple fronts.  Redemptors and Dreads/Venerable Dreads... 

[Lion El Jason]

I have to agree.  I have been drip buying models for years because I had armies that were fine and I didn't need to replace them.  10th hit me hardest and I've had to replace most of my stuff now.
I keep all my terminators but 70 bikes, 15 attack bikes, 10 land speeders, 30 sniper scouts, 2 thunderfire cannon and 2 companies of power armour are all going in a case, never to be seen again.

I've bought more marines this edition I've used for the last 7.

I would not have bought upscaled tactical marines but I need infiltrators.  I would have bought a few upscaled bikes but mostly used my old ones.  With the primaris, I have no choice.  You must buy to play.

[FarFromSam]

I have printed pack antenna for infiltrators.  Phobos armor as a concept is so dumb.   We're going to have armor just as durable as front line units but stealthy,  but also keep making front line armor even though phobos is cheaper to make... christ GW.

 

 Any way true scale marines look great with antenna,  and true scale marines plus iron armor make for great gravis armor stand ins

[Tacitus]

On 2/7/2024 at 4:51 PM, Lion El Jason said:

I have to agree.  I have been drip buying models for years because I had armies that were fine and I didn't need to replace them.  10th hit me hardest and I've had to replace most of my stuff now.
I keep all my terminators but 70 bikes, 15 attack bikes, 10 land speeders, 30 sniper scouts, 2 thunderfire cannon and 2 companies of power armour are all going in a case, never to be seen again.

I've bought more marines this edition I've used for the last 7.

I would not have bought upscaled tactical marines but I need infiltrators.  I would have bought a few upscaled bikes but mostly used my old ones.  With the primaris, I have no choice.  You must buy to play.

I have 6 boxes of Devs to get me 4xAll Load Outs - but I'm not buying any Tacs or more Devs.  They're just betting to get the Assault Marines Treatment.  I'm a little surprised it didn't happen to Tacs already.  Devs are safe for as long as it takes to get each of the "elements" Flamer/Plasma/Melta/Grav/Las/Frag N Krak in a balanced vs Devs box.   Flamer Aggressors are here, Hellblasters are here.  Eradicators are here, Desolators are here - but Eliminators are not a Balanced vs Dev kit with lower quality and quantity of Las output.