BA Vanguard Veterans

[L30n1d4s]

So, with the new Detachment rules, 10 VV led by a Captain and SP now put out 50 x S8 AP-2 Dmg1 attacks on the charge, all with Lethal Hits and the ability to get Lance for free (Red Rampage is a Battle Tactic, so Captain can use his ability on it).

 

Additionally, the JP Captain with a PF gets 6 x S11 AP-3 Dmg 2 attacks and the SP gets 6 x S7 AP-2 Dmg1 attacks, all with Lethal Hits and Lance.

 

In terms of survivability, the 4++ from the VV Stormshields, coupled with 5+++ FNP from the SP and option for a free Armour of Contempt (from the Captain, if he didn't already use it on Red Rampage) makes the squad surprisingly durable.

 

To top it all off, they of course have very respectable mobility, with 12" move, Deep Strike, and the Aggressive Onslaught Strat (again, another Battle Tactic, so potential to make it free with the Captain). Since they also are Infantry and have Fly, they have great mobility navigating through Terrain while still maximizing Cover and LOS blocking pieces. 

 

Overall, I think the bump up to S8 with the new Detachment rules really puts them at another level, letting them shred things like MEQs, Heavy Infantry, and even light vehicles/Monsters with their mass Dmg1 attacks.

Edited February 9, 2024 by L30n1d4s

[Carcosa]

I am at the moment build a unit of VV. And i plan to run them with a captain und SP. I like your analyses.

But just one question. How to you get a AP of -3?. That should only be possible in the gladius detachment.

[L30n1d4s]

Sorry, good catch, I forgot that Red Rampage gives Lethal Hits, not -1AP.

 

That means the VV and SP are only AP-2 and the Captain is only AP-3 on their melee attacks.

Edited February 8, 2024 by L30n1d4s

[Blindhamster]

+1 to wound as well, means at strength 8, the worst they’re wounding just about anything in the game at is 4s

[Karhedron]

Yes, I think VanVets are a big winner in the buffed Sons of Sanguinius Detachment. I am running a 10-man squad with 5 Storm Shields and 5 Inferno Pistols to give them some extra punch against multi-wound targets. Even against T9+ targets, you should get at least one melta shot hitting and Wounding which is on average 2 or 4 extra wounds depending on range. Plus those pistols can be fired in melee athough I feel the chances of squad remaining in melee of that long are minimal.

 

In fact, I really can't see a good reason to take Sanguinary Guard at this point considering how much extra you pay for the Damage 2 weapons.

Edited February 8, 2024 by Karhedron

[Adorondak]

11 hours ago, Karhedron said:

In fact, I really can't see a good reason to take Sanguinary Guard at this point considering how much extra you pay for the Damage 2 weapons.

 

The banner? I haven't played many games of tenth yet, but it seems like giving sang guard OC 2 probably wins more games then d2 weapons would.

[Xenith]

Objective can't be contested if your foes are all dead! Though I guess it helps them persist on an objective longer in case it's flipped. 

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, Xenith said:

Objective can't be contested if your foes are all dead! Though I guess it helps them persist on an objective longer in case it's flipped. 

 

Agreed. It has been a while since I had to count OC to see who controlled an Objective and even longer since it decided a game. The vast majority of Objectives are claimed by wipeout in my games.

[Xenith]

It's mattered on my side, but when I'm playing nids who have to swarm people off them as opposed to being able to remove opposing models (they struggle). Sanguard should easily be able to kill 15 gaunts to flip an objective, while the gaunts have zero chance of killing a sanguard so have to rely on numbers to hold it. 

[Karhedron]

And because I like any excuse to show my latest models "hot off the press". 

[DemonGSides]

Wow, gorgeously done.  That gold is like, PERFECT (imo, I know some people want a shinier look).

Love the lightning claws too.  I've got a grip of them as well and was thinking about knocking up some VV with the new Jump Assault Int kit.

[Tokugawa]

On 2/8/2024 at 11:55 PM, Karhedron said:

Yes, I think VanVets are a big winner in the buffed Sons of Sanguinius Detachment. I am running a 10-man squad with 5 Storm Shields and 5 Inferno Pistols to give them some extra punch against multi-wound targets. Even against T9+ targets, you should get at least one melta shot hitting and Wounding which is on average 2 or 4 extra wounds depending on range. Plus those pistols can be fired in melee athough I feel the chances of squad remaining in melee of that long are minimal.

 

In fact, I really can't see a good reason to take Sanguinary Guard at this point considering how much extra you pay for the Damage 2 weapons.

Agree. 5 men VV unit doesn't finish any work obviously differently with cheaper jump intercessors unit. Go 10 men, attach best available leaders, then they are very different.

[Paladin777]

Funny enough, i don't think they really got buffed all that much if a captain is includes. They were already quite good in a detachment that was awful, and I think people are looking at them because the detachment got better. 

They would already shred T4 targets before, and how many T7/8 targets are out there?

 

the biggest buff they got, in my opinion, is that they don't need a captain to get to S7 anymore. 
 

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely running them. Ive just been saying they're good for BA (because we can take a SPriest) since the edition dropped!

Edited February 12, 2024 by Paladin777

[Brother Raul]

This is the unit that's holding up my 10th edition list building (waiting for a Primaris version for clarity on rules, points and gear).

 

I have a feeling they will end up replacing DC as they might get better gear. Plus also with a SP (at least) and SOS detachment they might be a LOT better.

 

Will soon find out hopefully but they may become the new Infernus pistol powerfist delivery system.

[Karhedron]

I don't think VanVets will be getting a new loadout as that would invalidate the entry in the codex. GW have been pretty sharp on making sure what is in the Codex matches what is in the boxes. While there may be a new kit coming at some point, I don't think the loadout will change for VanVets.

 

I recon DC will lose most of their wargear options when the Firstborn version gets punted to Legends. Primaris DC will probably get the same loadouts as Intercessor, Assault Intercessors and Jump Intercessors respectively.