Apparently, I'm Doing the Primaris Thing (but Not Really) - First Conversions

[Brother Christopher]

Introspection time!

 

It's a really good thing that GW managed to discourage me  to their policy and products with the Primaris thing. It turns out that I'm very susceptible to collecting Marines. Without the 'external' factor of not wanting to support GW, I would've been in a way, way darker place when it comes to piles of shame.

 

The last 3 years in the hobby has been all about my finishing my Firstborn Templars and loosely keeping up to date with the new releases. I haven't been invoved with the collecting/purchasing side of the hobby.

 

Today, after actually rejoining the modern hellscape of wanting to buy and collect GW's products, I came to realise that most of my concerns and prejudices were quite grounded.

 

In a positive, 40K fashion, I want to address two things. (Hyperbole alert! I personally don't feel actual hatred towards the hobby.)

 

1. I hate GW

 

Yeah, so being their customer is way harder than I anticipated. Quite clearly, I'm not the target audience for their business practices. Interacting with GW isn't good for my mental health; it is quite upsetting to what degree their business model is driven by FOMO and reliant on the endless churn of new releases. What I want to say is: it's difficult to get models that you'd like, given their 'artificial scarcity' and their more and more 'exclusive' nature. This is something that I theoretically knew is a factor but haven't experienced it first-hand.

 

Sure, there are some SM sculpts that I liked but, you see, they're exclusive: were a part of a bundle or were released for a special occasion or whatnot. As a side note, it's also quite depressing how uninspired many of the limited and exclusive SM models were; it's just a standard Primaris Marine in a slightly different pose. Sure, these poses are often cool but, at the same time, we're spoilt for choice of non-standard poses in regular kits (at least, that's how I see it, given that most of my experience is with the boring poses of squat-marines). But are they cool enough on their own to cost the equivalent of 7 regular dudes? I don't think so...

 

For example, GW has this Warhammer Store opening model, Sergeant Jovian I think, that costs ~120 zlotys. For 70 zlotys I can have 5 Intercessors. Is Jovian a cool model? Yeah, quite. But is he that much cooler than what you can build out of an Intercessors box? That's debatable. His price only comes from the 'exclusivity' and not from anything else; after all, he's just an Intercessor in the regular mk X armour.

 

I wanted to buy a Techmarine or Chaplain but there aren't many options, too. Especially for the Chaplain in the silly, slick armour. The Indomitus Chaplain, a sculpt that I'd like to have, is not available.

 

Back in 5th-6th edition, when GW's catalogue of models was more finite, I've never experienced any problems with availability of models. For me that was way better than what we have now since it also helped me plan my army.

 

2. I hate myself

 

It turns out that I'm very much prone to making the same mistakes and spiralling out of control in terms of planning and/or purchasing models. It takes way too much mental effort and self-restraint not to buy models.

 

It probably is a result of me not seeing a clear purpose for the collection. I'm trying to focus on a models-first approach, i.e. buying and painting models that I like, but I subconsciously impose the gaming aspect on my plans. For example, I think I could do with just one plasma gunner but I feel I should have a squad of 5. Or since I have two full squads of Infernus marines, I really should paint at least one squad. Generally speaking, I feel the (unreasonable?) urge to think about models in terms of "squads of five."

 

But this thinking will very quickly grow the number of models to unreasonable sizes.

 

I wanted to focus on skirmish games but then what's the point of the Apothecary or 5 Infernus Marines or Terminators? Or other cool models? Captains? Techmarines? Kill Team doesn't work as a justification...

 

Right now, I'm trying, badly trying, to organise the collection into squads of five but that could work well as a diorama or in a small, Combat-Patrol-sized game or that can be harvested for individual models for Kill Team and/or other skirmish games.

 

AND ABSOLUTELY NO VEHICLES. I typed this in caps to shout at myself and remind myself that this is supposed to be limited project. I must confess that I almost bought a Spartan (a count-as Land Raider) for my dudes.

 

The bottom line is this: with a range so wide, covering so many games and options, I struggle to find a clear purpose for the collection. I don't know where to stop. And this saddens me because I've already made the same mistake in the past.

 

***

My current collection of untouched models consists of the following:

1. Leviathan box, i.e.

- 5 Sternguard

- 10 Infernus

- 5 Termis

- 2 Termi Characters

- 2 non-Termi Characters

2. 10 Assault Intercessors

3. 5 Bolter Intercessors

4. Command Squad (5 models)

5. Indomitus Captain

 

And I think that this is the cut-off point for my Primaris project.

 

I appears to be quite a reasonable small force that will also allow me to have some fun with conversions and whatnot.

 

In terms of power armour marines, I suppose I'll go with something like this:

1 Character from every 'branch' of the organisation, i.e. secular (Captain/Lieutenant), religious (Chaplain) and technical (Techmarine) to form the bulk of a command squad; all characters will be conversions - I don't feel like paying GW's premium prices

1 Ancient and 2 Champions (1 with shield)

5 Flamer Marines

5 Bolter Marines

5 Melee Marines

3-5 Jump Pack Marines

5 Sternguard Marines

* Tactical Squad, i.e. some bolter marines, as well as special (plasma, melta) and heavy (bolter and missile launcher) weapons

 

I'm curious to see how this actualises and where this takes me.

 

Hopefully, I won't be buying more stuff since this is probably already too much. In my defence, I wanted to have a nice variety of bits and poses and I like most of the models from the Command Squad box.

[ShadowCaptain]

If I may. If you like contrasting, liche purple and bone white, with matte black.. I have a chapter called the Shadow Falcons, feel free to use the scheme. 

I

Edited April 15 by ShadowCaptain

[Firedrake Cordova]

Just one more turn Space Marine  (apologies to anyone who hasn't played Sid Meier's Civilisation)

 

In all seriousness, identifying any negative behaviours you may have is difficult, and taking steps to prevent them is even harder. All I can suggest is making a list of your restrictions, then making an army/collection list that fits these, and trying very hard to stick to it.

Edited April 15 by Firedrake Cordova

[TheArtilleryman]

I can sympathise with an awful lot of this. The GW range is huge and also constantly changing. As we’ve discussed before, things also get removed from the range which is very frustrating. 
 

1. eBay. I never buy anything from GW direct anymore. Most of what I buy comes from eBay, usually second hand, even if the item is “as new.” Sometimes I use FLGS sites but not often. The great thing about this is it’s usually cheaper but also a good way to get hold of those specific models that you can’t get from GW anymore. Don’t get sucked in by people charging a fortune, just be patient and lurk until you see what you want at a good price.

 

2. Don’t be made to feel you have to buy things that are the “meta” or whatever. Get the things you actually want. And if there are things in that pile of stuff that you don’t want - sell them or whatever. It’ll pay for something you do want and it will reduce your pile of stuff to do.

 

3. Small armies are fine. I’ve got two nice little 1000 point armies of T’au and Grey Knights. I originally had huge plans for them, but when in my head I realised those plans would just be more of the same, I decided 1k is just fine. It looks nice, can be used in skirmishes and I can take the time needed to paint them to my best standard without thinking “omg I’ve got a hundred more to paint.”

 

4. If you want to thin it out but aren’t sure how, try coming up with a theme. With Leviathan as a starting point, you could  start with a small elite force, with the Sternguard and Terminators, led by the terminator characters. The Indomitus captain could be assigned to lead the Sternguard. You said no vehicles, but you could use the ballistic dreadnought from the box as it would fit with the theme and give it the firepower this force would be lacking. Whatever the theme, you could do something like this as a place to start and put the rest of the stuff away until you’ve completed that lot.

 

Just some thoughts - hope they’re useful!

[Brother Christopher]

Thanks, that's actually useful. The most important thing for me is to focus on a feasible project that can be finished in a reasonable time. I think that I'll just stick to the models I got and bought so far and enjoy converting and painting some marines that are not black.

 

11 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

4. If you want to thin it out but aren’t sure how, try coming up with a theme. With Leviathan as a starting point, you could  start with a small elite force, with the Sternguard and Terminators, led by the terminator characters. The Indomitus captain could be assigned to lead the Sternguard. You said no vehicles, but you could use the ballistic dreadnought from the box as it would fit with the theme and give it the firepower this force would be lacking. Whatever the theme, you could do something like this as a place to start and put the rest of the stuff away until you’ve completed that lot.

 

This should work as a theme. I was thinking about a boarding force theme or simply a small, elite-ish recon theme, with two Rhino/Impulsors.

 

Actually, adding the Leviathan Dreadnought to the mix is a great idea; however, that's something I've discarded at the very beginning, wanting to add him to my main, Templar force. Now, however, after reading what you wrote, I think that should I decide to paint him purple he'd be a nice centrepiece for the army.

 

Also, since my focus should be on infantry, I think I won't be buying any vehicles for now... and maybe, if/when I paint the bulk of the purple marines, I'll revisit plasticard scratch building and salvage the two custom Rhinos that I've already written off.

 

Exciting stuff! If I only had more time on my hands ;)

 

11 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

1. eBay. I never buy anything from GW direct anymore. Most of what I buy comes from eBay, usually second hand, even if the item is “as new.” Sometimes I use FLGS sites but not often. The great thing about this is it’s usually cheaper but also a good way to get hold of those specific models that you can’t get from GW anymore. Don’t get sucked in by people charging a fortune, just be patient and lurk until you see what you want at a good price.

 

I'm trying to do that; I don't want to directly endorse GW, that's for sure. I bought 4 "kits" for my project, 2 of which were sold by individuals, 1 is properly second-hand (painted an all) and 1 is from a local retailer. So, I consider that I only bought 1 'new kit' indirectly from GW.

 

11 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

2. Don’t be made to feel you have to buy things that are the “meta” or whatever. Get the things you actually want. And if there are things in that pile of stuff that you don’t want - sell them or whatever. It’ll pay for something you do want and it will reduce your pile of stuff to do.

 

Oh, I'm most definitely not chasing the meta. My only concerns are that I can't get out of the gaming framework in thinking about how to build my models. For the 'meta' part of proper 40k, I have my count-as Templars and conversions that are fitted to cover most of the options in the Codex, minus Gravis stuff and the more exotic vehicles (Storm Speeders, I think).

[TheArtilleryman]

On 4/15/2024 at 11:27 AM, Brother Christopher said:

For example, I think I could do with just one plasma gunner but I feel I should have a squad of 5.

 

4 hours ago, Brother Christopher said:

My only concerns are that I can't get out of the gaming framework in thinking about how to build my models.

This made me think. Tactical squads can now have two special weapons instead of a special and heavy. So if you don’t want a full squad of specials you could further down the line field your intercessors as a tactical squad with two flamers for example.

[Snakes of Ithaka]

58 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

 

This made me think. Tactical squads can now have two special weapons instead of a special and heavy. So if you don’t want a full squad of specials you could further down the line field your intercessors as a tactical squad with two flamers for example.

 

This is something I have been looking at doing too splitting up the the hellblasters and infernus squads and put them with some intercessors for some old school tactical squad goodness.

[Brother Christopher]

I think I've finished the purchasing and collecting stage of my Primaris Project. I bought probably a bit too many models but I felt pressured to do so, taking advantage of the limited availability and the perceived threat that GW may increase prices. All in all, I feel I bought most of the models at a bargain price, i.e. price that I used to pay years ago when I bought most of my Firstborn stuff. On average, for the models I bought, the price per model is around PLN 20. For reference, GW sells 10 Intercessors for PLN 210, but my collection includes a number of characters, as well as 3 ridiculously-priced Bladeguard Veterans.

 

I am quite sure that I bought a bit too much for my needs but that's good since I have a nice buffer in case I want to make something not following the 5-man-squad model.

 

Today, if I have the time, I want to try out a new idea for my painting recipe and perhaps make the final decisions regarding the colour scheme.

 

But, more importantly, I'm having second thoughts about the "heavy conversions," i.e. oldschool mixed marks of armour*. It seems like an exciting prospect but I'm worried that a uniform look would or could be better... After all, this appears to be GW's current approach to Space Marines, with all the Primaris looking the same, as well as single-mark Tactical Squads for Horus Heresy.

 

Right now I'm sort of inclined to go with mixed armour marks for the Troops Choices (i.e. Intercessor models who will be my count-as Tactical marines) but stick to a single 'mark' for some "specialist" squads, e.g. the command squad, Bladeguard squad or Infernus squad.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

*The scope of conversions for the "marks of armour" include alterations to knee pads, breastplates, tassets and helmets.

[Torbenos]

Personally I am always in favour of a more "busy" visual for space marines, as I am more of a fan of the warrior monk/knight aesthetic rather than a sleek modern sci-fi soldier. I'd say go for the mixed marks, there's a lot of excellent examples of it looking terrific. 

[TheArtilleryman]

Sounds like a plan!

[Firedrake Cordova]

I think I prefer the mixed-mark look. The background used to be that armour was centuries-old and patched-up, which created a rather un-uniform look, especially in the older chapters.

[Rusted Boltgun]

I've also started a Primaris project and amassed around 2k pts of models since I got back into the hobby, despite 'playing Kill Team and not getting into 40k'.

Most were puirchased in battleforces or eBay unwanted models.

My Primaris will be Primaris only but I've created a homebrew chapter and backstory that works with this.

I've ideas for making the squads a little more interesting and harking back to RT but there won't be much in terms of older armour apart from the odd beakie helmet or studded shoulder pad. 

I've also designs on a few kitbashed characters.

Ultimately, I think that as the kids would say - 'you do you'.  I mean that nicely .

What will excite you about the project?

What will be fun to paint?

[Brother Christopher]

Ahaha, I can always count on you, Brothers! I'll give my best and try to convert the models I have to make them more in line with the old aesthetic. However, I cannot promise that I'll stick to this; I'm a bit concerned about the amount of work/time this'll take.

 

However, I vow to try!

 

2 hours ago, Rusted Boltgun said:

I've also started a Primaris project and amassed around 2k pts of models since I got back into the hobby, despite 'playing Kill Team and not getting into 40k'.

 

This sounds very familiar. I don't want to count the point of my target collection, though. I decided to really focus on the adage: get the models you like. And I mean it; while the prospect of using them in a game of mainline 40k is a constant, I try not to think about it - after all, I have my useless squat Templars for that purpose.

 

However, the 'get the models you like' started spiralling out of control; after all, in terms of poses, Primaris kits are pretty cool and it'd be a waste not to use most of the cool poses. And in order to do that, I needed more bodies.

 

Now, the collection is absolutely complete. If anything, I might try to sell some of the models (maybe 5 Infernus Marines and 5 Intercessors, but for the latter, I'll make the final decision after I organise and assemble most of the models). Also, I think I bought all the models from the Primaris range that I actually liked over the years, maybe apart from the over-costed heros. I mean, I'm lucky enough to afford them but my moral compass prohibits this. After all, most of the lieutenants/captains are just regular Intercessors with the tiniest smidgens of bling but cost 70-80% of a 10-man squad. No, thank you, GW - I'll bling up some regular dudes using leftotver bits.

 

Also, in terms of infantry, I don't see myself buying anything new... well, maybe apart from the 11th Edition Starter wherein I hope to see some Terminators, Vanguard Vets or upscaled Devastators.

 

2 hours ago, Rusted Boltgun said:

My Primaris will be Primaris only but I've created a homebrew chapter and backstory that works with this.

 

I'll be also creating my own chapter but I intend to take things a bit further. My Marines, you see, are not Primaris Marines. They are just your regular 4th-5th edition Marines but from a slightly alternate universe, with slightly different (i.e. modern, by real world standards) wargear. Cadia is still there, etc.

 

2 hours ago, Rusted Boltgun said:

I've ideas for making the squads a little more interesting and harking back to RT but there won't be much in terms of older armour apart from the odd beakie helmet or studded shoulder pad. 

I've also designs on a few kitbashed characters.

 

And I'll be following your progress! :)

 

2 hours ago, Rusted Boltgun said:

What will excite you about the project?

What will be fun to paint?

 

Overall, I'm extremely glad to have won the Leviathan box. Sure, it opened the floodgates, but I do hope that I won't fall into the old habits (at least not more than I already did). I'm very much excited about most of the things connected with the Primaris ProjectTM. I think it's mostly the prospect of working on better-proportioned models, as well as (hopefully not) ill-founded belief that I can fix the "boring kits" and end up with something akin to 'true scale' Space Marines.

 

An unexpected drawback, though, is t that the prospect of working on the Primaris models makes me regret having a way too large of a Firsborn army. My motivation to finish the better designed but clumsy models is more and more diminished; but well, I made a commitment to finish that so I shall.

 

***

There is another development in the concept stage of the project. Initially, I wanted to stick to the Leviathan box + 10 Intercessors. Unfortunately, after inspecting the push-fit sprues, I figured that converting the models from Leviathan to fit my needs would be too much of a hassle and it would be more time-efficient (and overall better) to get proper kits.

 

Well, long story short, I ended up with probably 15 models more than I initially planned. I think that this will somewhat force me to change my painting philosophy.

 

I wanted to paint the models using 120% of my skills: to really push myself and see what I can do. Now, though, I don't feel like it. Firstly, I'm a bit afraid of the time commitment. Secondly, I'm a bit afraid of failure. Thirdly, and most importantly, I feel that actually attempting to reach my limits won't really work with heavily converted models. Marks left by filing and cutting, as well as sculpted/scratchbuilt bits, I think, won't go hand-in-hand with the "do my best" attitude. I suppose, I'll try my best with the more 'vanilla' models: Bladeguards or members of the Command Squad. But for the rank and file models, I'll try to streamline the process.

 

Speaking of streamlining, I wanted to see how that'll work and painted one more test model. I focused on the base colour, i.e. purple. And I suppose I'm quite happy with it. The result is very similar to what I painted before but the painting process is way more enjoyable and, hopefully, should be easier to replicate.

 

 

 

 

And some close-ups:

 

 

@Firedrake Cordova Once again thanks for the YT tutorials recommendations. I watched some of the videos, digested and spat out their contents (I'm not as pro as some of the people from these videos). As a result, I have this bastardised, simplified approach: a recipe that's manageable skill- and time-wise but works pretty well, for my needs. I'll probably further refine it after I've worked on the first batch of Primaris and get a better 'feel' of the models.

 

In the second part of April, I will want to juggle between painting more Templars (I want to finish 3 Initiates nad 3 biker characters) and perhaps butchering converting the first batch of 3-5 Primaris models.

 

In terms of planning, I still need to decide about secondary and tertiary colours: shoulder pads, eyes, as well as a chapter symbol.

 

For the trims of shoulder pads, I think I'll go with silver for regular troops and gold for sergeants/veterans.

 

For the 'main field' of the pads, I'm thinking grey (the same tone as the arms), dark grey (in case I decide to use transfers for the chapter symbol) or purple.

 

[Firedrake Cordova]

I'm glad the videos were helpful. Getting an approach that gives you the results you want in the time you have is a great start

 

Whilst it's nice to push your skills as it often leads to improvement, it's also worth bearing in mind that you can cause burn-out if you do this for prolonged periods.

[Brother Christopher]

By the Emperor, I'm struggling to finalise my paint scheme. By the life of the Primarch, I can't decide on the colour of the shoulder pads.

 

I'm thinking about purple, grey or dark grey/black. Luckily the Space Marine Painter comes in handy; I've generated a number of images to help me with the decision and thought that I might share this with you for some extra feedback.

 

v.1.1.

 

v.1.2.

 

v.1.3.

 

v.2.1.

 

 

v.3.1.

 

v.3.2.

 

All are cool in their own ways, I guess. I would probably like to go with the grey pads but that'll make the use of transfers more difficult (most transfers appear to be white).

 

The purple version feels somehow lacking, but I don't know why. I suppose that the versions with a gold or grey trim helps.

 

As for the dark grey/black, it adds a tertiary colour and would make the application of transfers easier.

[Firedrake Cordova]

I think v3.1 and v1.3 are my favourites.

[Rusted Boltgun]

It is a tough call, I went through a similar dilemma with my own Primaris scheme.

I like 1.3 and 2.1 but it might depend on the colour(s) of the chapter symbol.

I like the silver arms!

[TheArtilleryman]

I actually like the first one, but then I’ve massively gone off painting shoulder trims because they do my head in. 
 

Otherwise I would say 2.1 because you could do the whole thing purple and then paint in the middle of the pad instead. I think sticking to two colours is the best idea to keep it simple. Too many colours can start to feel a bit too busy on marines IMO.

[Brother Christopher]

I do appreciate your feedback! All of this is so silly, me posting 90% identical images of dudes in power armour and I am really, really happy that you're taking time to respond to this silliness.

 

Based on your feedback, I'll go with the purple main field of the shoulder pads for the regular infantry.

 

Even though I didn't want to make any more test models, I think I'll make another one with a grey undercoat (for the previous attempts, I used a black primer). I think that this should give me a more vibrant purple that I can later tone down by glazing.

[Bob Fossil]

A bit late, but I was happy to get comforted in my paint scheme choices here.  I tend to prefer simple schemes on marines. With the arms and body in different colours, I wouldn't add any more.

I think 1.3 and 2.1 would look great!

[Brother Christopher]

@Bob Fossil No worries, Brother. Thank you for reply. This is a long-term project and I'm still collecting feedback and deliberating on my final decision.

 

In the meantime, I'm still wasting time on trying to figure out what I want with the base colour. Over the last 2-3 weeks I've wasted watching photos and tutorials but I'm not sure if this produced any results. I might consider using some contrast paints (or the like) but at this point, I suppose, I managed to convince myself that what I have looks okay.

 

I even managed to half-assemble two first Primaris models and do another test paintjob (model on the right). I also tried slapping some paint on a grey undercoat but I suppose I prefer the black undercoat. The colours are more dull but I think I've grown to like that about it - it adds a bit of grimdarkness to the thing, I guess.

 

 

Let me know what you think.

 

I suppose I'll go with the tools I have; painting the model on the right was actually every pleasant, satisfying and relaxing. At lest way better than doing black.

 

Next up, conversion time. I think I'll want to prep my first 5 models and see how the changes I have in my mind actualise.

 

As a side-note, the quality of the Primaris models is quite superb - definitely an improvement. The sculpts, though, are kinda meh. In person, they are definitely larger than squat-Marines but don't feel properly imposing; they feel a bit... fat, but that's probably because of the extra plates on the thigh armour.

[Firedrake Cordova]

I much prefer the colour of the one on the right

 

I thought the thing with the Primaris marines looking "fat" was that the stomach was more correctly modelled? (armour plates not being the thinnest thing) Apparently, John Blanche is a bit of a fan of them and their design ...

Edited April 27 by Firedrake Cordova

[Terminatorinhell]

I think the right one is nice too. I sorta like both though. Not sure if you could use both. 

[TheArtilleryman]

The colour on the right is much nicer. Black undercoat all the way for the depth of shading you can get. 
 

The “fat” effect is because the armour is more realistically modelled on the Primaris guys. Someone once told me to look at a firstborn marine and imagine there is a person inside the armour - in order to fit in the suit they’d have to be thin as a rake, which is not how you imagine a marine. With the primaris guys you can believe a lot more readily that a muscular physique would fit inside.

[Terminatorinhell]

I honestly really prefer the primaris physique too.