Apparently, I'm Doing the Primaris Thing (but Not Really) - First Conversions

[Wormwoods]

Yeah, they're pleasantly chunky without having the odd arm/leg proportions of most of the firstborn sculpts. 

[Brother Christopher]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this since it's not technically a WIP-related question but, I'll try before potentially turning elsewhere.

 

I'm looking for a fluff justification for a force of Marines the size of my Primaris project. Since I'm not well-versed in 40k fiction, I'd like to ask you, more experience brethren, about the logistics of how Space Marines operate in the field, based on novels and background texts. The publications I've read in the day (or the films, videos, animations and video games) focused on small SM forces or even individual warriors and I don't recall anything about the 'logistics' I'm interested in right now, i.e. how are they deployed, how many support vehicles they have and what do they do.

 

I will have had a force of 40-50 Marines: roughly 10 melee, 10-15 'specialists' (flamers, plasmas, meltas), 15-20 bolter dudes (including 2-4 heavy weapons), 5 sternguards, a command squad, 5 terminators and a bunch of Leviathan characters. I'm thinking about doing an 'exploration force' theme; i.e. the force is dispatched to accompany the chapter's Chief Apothecary (in Gravis) to recover some piece of tech, as well as gene seed.

 

How many vehicles would such a force have? Realistically, I'm thinking about 1 Dreadnought, 2 custom Rhinos (count-as Impulsors) and perhaps 1 large vehicle (Land Raider/Repulsor) but this means that less than half of the troops have a ride represented by a model. I thought that the small motor pool might be excused by the fact that the force is to operate in unfavourable terrain: mountains or ancient vaults or perhaps a Space Hulk?

[Terminatorinhell]

I think that seems like a reasonable list. Worse case scenario you toss in another rhino or LR lol... 

[MoriyaSchism]

2 hours ago, Brother Christopher said:

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this since it's not technically a WIP-related question but, I'll try before potentially turning elsewhere.

 

I'm looking for a fluff justification for a force of Marines the size of my Primaris project. Since I'm not well-versed in 40k fiction, I'd like to ask you, more experience brethren, about the logistics of how Space Marines operate in the field, based on novels and background texts. The publications I've read in the day (or the films, videos, animations and video games) focused on small SM forces or even individual warriors and I don't recall anything about the 'logistics' I'm interested in right now, i.e. how are they deployed, how many support vehicles they have and what do they do.

 

I will have had a force of 40-50 Marines: roughly 10 melee, 10-15 'specialists' (flamers, plasmas, meltas), 15-20 bolter dudes (including 2-4 heavy weapons), 5 sternguards, a command squad, 5 terminators and a bunch of Leviathan characters. I'm thinking about doing an 'exploration force' theme; i.e. the force is dispatched to accompany the chapter's Chief Apothecary (in Gravis) to recover some piece of tech, as well as gene seed.

 

How many vehicles would such a force have? Realistically, I'm thinking about 1 Dreadnought, 2 custom Rhinos (count-as Impulsors) and perhaps 1 large vehicle (Land Raider/Repulsor) but this means that less than half of the troops have a ride represented by a model. I thought that the small motor pool might be excused by the fact that the force is to operate in unfavourable terrain: mountains or ancient vaults or perhaps a Space Hulk?

That amount of vehicles sounds reasonable. It reminds me of the example Black Templars army from the 4th Edition Codex which had two Razorbacks and a Land Raider Crusader. The Horus Heresy black books cover some of the logistics operations in the description of how Thunderhawks and their transporter variant are used. If I remember right resupply was done via dropship or teleport depending on the situation.

[Rusted Boltgun]

I've been reading / listening to quote a few of the novels and Thunderhawks have been the most common method of deployment in what I have read (apart from 'product placement' Impulsors in one Indomitus novel) but I think that's because they suited the engagement better - typically deployment from a ship in orbit down into an enemy-held hive / city.

 

That said,  the last one had Sisters of Battle deployed in Rhinos for a ground assault and Lord of Mars has a Skitarii exploratory force also in Rhinos. 

 

Way back in Epic scale, Marines were carried in Rhinos and when I think of large scale Space Marine force, that's what my imagination heads towards - every squad has its own Rhino.

 

Edit: as this is a Primaris force, replace keyword Rhino with an appropriate repulsor-based craft 

Edited May 5 by Rusted Boltgun

[TheArtilleryman]

Your force is totally fluffily compliant Brother :)

 

In most of the fiction I’ve read (outside of the Horus Heresy, where legions are often deployed en masse) Space Marine deployments are usually pretty small. In one of the Ultramarines novels about Uriel Ventris, a contingent of about 30 marines is deployed to support the planetary defence forces to repel a T’au invasion. In a Grey Knights novel, twoish squads, led by a justicar (sergeant equivalent), are deployed to a star system to investigate a mystery surrounding an ancient daemonic legend.
 

As others have said, deployment planetside tends to be via Thunderhawk, Stormbird or other similar drop-ship. Drop pods are only really used in very specific situations, and you couldn’t deploy your armoured vehicles in one either.
 

The lack of transports for some troops could be explained by some of your guys landing on the surface and having to trek across land to their objective. Perhaps there is some interference or something, or they need to disable a shield generator for the rest of the team to be flown in. The terminators and captain, with their teleport capability, might typically be held in reserve, waiting for one of the sergeants to activate the teleport homer when the poop hits the fan.

[Firedrake Cordova]

Looking at the books I've read, there's been a few where Space Marines have cropped up:

• Brothers of the Snake. The book follows a single Space Marine, and their progression. They're initially deployed on their own, and are later deployed with a full squad, both on foot and with a Rhino. The book mentions Chapter serfs being present for "planned battles", carrying ammunition and other supplies.
• Ciaphas Cain. I can't remember which book it was, but in one of them multiple squads of Space Marines were deployed, and transported in-theatre via Rhino.

I think as has been said, insertion and rapid-deployment is generally via Thunderhawk, and in-theatre/local transportation is generally via Rhino. That doesn't mean the Rhinos have to be present on the table - they may be lurking in the rear, etc.

Edited May 5 by Firedrake Cordova

[Brother Christopher]

Thank you for the extensive feedback. I think that I won't be able to type in response as much as you did but I do appreciate what you wrote, will process it and put it to good use.

 

It also turns out that I had a good hunch, too (or was it the old lore that I've internalised?). To be honest, I'm a bit tempted to paint my Thunderhawk purple instead.... However, this would feel a bit off, like a betrayal of my squat-Templars.

 

In real-life terms, I think I'll focus on doing some infantry conversions first and only after I have a couple of game-ready Kill Teams, I'll get back to the vehicle side of thing. Also, since I don't really intend to use these guys for the main 40k game, I think I'll use my Primaris force as an excellent justification for (re)working some Plasticard vehicles.

 

However, in weird, nerdy way I want to have everything planned in advance... at least as much as planning anything is possible with the current churn of rules, changes and editions.

[Firedrake Cordova]

39 minutes ago, Brother Christopher said:

However, in weird, nerdy way I want to have everything planned in advance.

Proper planning prevents poor purchasing

[Brother Christopher]

You might be right there. I think I'm apprehensive about not falling into the same pitfalls as I did with with squat-Templars. And I mean I'm extremely wary.

 

For the last two weeks, I have been eyeing a cheap Repulsor and a cheap Spartan Assault tank that I'd badly want to buy. After all, these are some pretty cool models that have been on my wishlist for years.

 

However... I feel I should resist the temptation(s) and not buy any 'big tank,' at least not now, before getting any of the infantry done. It would most certainly be gratifying to add an item from a wishlist to the collection/project but the apprehensive/rational part of me suggests that this would be very superficial; just a boost of dopamine resulting from buying something I want to have (and can afford money-wise).

 

Another issue is that I just want these models for fluff/modelling reasons. The primary goal of this Primaris project (sorry for the alliteration!) after all was to see whether I'd be able to 'fix' the monotony of Primaris design philosophy, i.e. a focus on infantry. Getting a bunch of Primaris models quickly turned into a pretext for buying some of the models that I liked: hellblasters, the command squad box, as well as some 'spare bodies' for conversions and filling out 'roles' that I envisaged for my models. This resulted in a project 15-20 models larger than I initially anticipated but, admittedly, I don't have regrets in that regard. I adjusted my assumptions about painting to keep the project manageable time-wise.

 

The vehicles, though, are probably just a whim. I think that they'd look cool on display, perhaps a part of a diorama. As you can see, I'm struggling here On the one hand, there's the almost childish desire to get new toys. On the other hand, there's the adult (?) self-restraint.

 

Right now, I think, I'll force myself to pass on these purchases and maybe take advantage of a ready alternative: taking the hobby-first approach to this project all the way to it's logical conclusion and adapting the discarded plasticard projects to this. It will be an enormous time sink, true, but at the same time, it would work in tandem with 'my variation on Primaris' principle.

 

But, man, it's mentally challenging to stick to some self-imposed limitations, especially with some disposable income.

 

***

Moving on from my struggles and musing, in terms of actualising the project, I think I decided on 90% of matters with my custom chapter livery. I also ordered some more paints and fresh green stuff; the one I have is annoying to work with. I also prepped some moulds for the alternate chests and practised some rudimentary 'sculpting' that I intend to use for the conversions. The next step is to make some alternate knee pads and test a way of replicating them with green stuff moulds.

 

For the chapter symbol, I'm torn between using/stealing the Dark Angels' emblem (due to having some decals) or sticking to freehanding Maltese crosses. I think I'll go with the latter as a homage to the Chapter that started it all for me. Also, painting the chapter symbol leaves room for experimenting with different colours, instead of the white, red or black decals.

 

The secondary colour for my army will be light grey and the tertiary colour (used for capes), I think, blue. For the tabards, I think I'll stick to the classic beige - it will work well with purple. I'm not sure about eye lenses; I'm considering blue, green or pink. I think I'll need to paint a couple to actually see which I prefer. But these are minor things.

 

The only major thing with the paint scheme is whether I want sergeants to have different coloured helmets. On the one hand, this is a great way to introduce splashes of colour to the force. On the other hand, this feels a bit restrictive game-wise.

 

 

[Brother Christopher]

This has been a very strange week. I feel I wasted a lot of time overthinking and perhaps obsessing about things that don't really matter. The biggest challenge was to process something that I wanted to avoid from the get-go: thinking about this project as something useful for 40k. I started to spiral out of control a bit really wanting to buy a large tank for my troops and feeling that this isn't good for me since it's not something I actually need.

 

Hopefully, the bottom line is this:

1. I'm sticking to the infantry models I have with the potential of getting some easy to build models from the 11th ed started box.

2. In terms of vehicles, I'm not buying any. I'll finish my 2 plasticard Rhinos and adapt a plasticard, DIY Land Raider that I intended to reword for my Templars as a LR for the purple guys; this is also in line with the variation on 40k aesthetic I'm aiming for this project.

 

There, I wrote it so it's official! (Well, I might've written it before but to be honest, I'm torn here).

 

Now, in terms of something concrete, I started to butcher some Primaris greaves to see whether I'll be able to modify the knee pads for variety. The initial results are... not great but maybe it's just me tired after a tough week. Regardless, I'll make sure to post some WIP shots once I have something to show.

 

Also, I really, really dislike GW's modern approach to sprue layout. I feel they're taking every advantage to make one piece into 3 or 4. In a strange way, I'm glad they're doing this: this helps me temper any likings I might have had to get more models. It turns out that my bad experiences with assembling a Redemptor Dreadnought weren't just a bad dream ;) It's the norm and, admittedly, I don't like this.

 

I don't want to come off as complaining, mind you. It is what it is and, at least for now, this is quite an interesting hobby challenge. I think that the issue will become less irritating after I lay the groundwork for the project (see what works in terms of cutting and modifying the models, prepare press moulds, etc.).

[Firedrake Cordova]

I know what you mean about the sprue layout - on the one hand, the modern models are really nice and they're using all of the space one the sprue, but on the other hand they're a real pain to assemble when compared to the old models.

[Brother Christopher]

I know I keep teasing/promising photos but I really want to get the first batch of 5 bodies ready. But between my limited hobby time and rubbish pace with this kind of stuff, progress is a slog.

 

This also means that, erhm, I decided to limit the scope of modifications. I think I won't be redoing the ball-joints at the ankles beyond the 5 models I already did. I think it takes a bit too much time for what it does. Since in my head this is not a Primaris army but an "alternate 5th edition 40k" situation, I can just assume that the ball thingies are how SM armour looks like in this alternate universe. I realised that I already decided to keep the things I like (like the longer bolters), as well as some things I'm not a huge fan of (the extra armour on sword-bearing arms or the top of the backpacks) so I can leave a thing I'm completely neutral on as-is.

 

Admittedly, this feels a bit like a failure but I'll take it for what it actually is: a conscious creative decision.

 

This leaves the de-primarisation to the chest plates, knee pads, helmets and perhaps backpacks (I haven't started work on these yet so I'm still on the fence).

 

Truth be told, I can't wait to prime the first batch of models and see to what extent the conversions and green stuff will affect the paint job. After all, this is a product of my labour and not an injection mould; imperfections are a part of the process. In a way, I'm concerned that in attempt to add some variety, I'm just ruining perfectly fine models with superior detail.

 

... but I knew what I signed up for when I got the Leviathan box.

[Brother Christopher]

Here's the first batch of botched models ;)

 

Overall, I think I like them but am apprehensive about painting them, i.e. to what extent the file and blade marks, as well as transition between green stuff and plastic will look after I apply a layer or three of paint. As you can see, I used a permanent pen on some bits of the models and I think I should be fine but I'm worried nonetheless.

 

The larger models do look great and the 'fat thighs' I mentioned earlier somehow aren't an issue any more. It's just an inexplicable pitty that GW, with all the tech they have, decided to make all the Primaris models wear the exact same armour. Sure, there are small varieties here and there, but it seems that the core infantry models (Intercessors, assault Intercessors, Hellblasters, Flamer and Rocket guys) have the same amour, save a skull on the helmet or a notch in the gorget.

 

Shame, really. In order to 'fix' this, hobbyists need to go the modern way (3d printing) or produce inferior quality models, like these, by quite extensive conversions.

 

 

This one seems to be pretty okay; the sculpted abdomen armour is a bit janky but that's probably the best I can do here.

 

On this one, I had to fiddle a but with the 'straps' on the chest because they turned out to be too thick; in the end, overall, I think he's okay, too.

 

This one has some rubbish holes in the gorget (I probably should get a smaller drill):

 

With this one, I misaligned the eagle but, I think, I'll leave it as-is not to damage the wings. Design-wise, I'm not sure about the large knee pad. But I think it's okay - very much like in video game representations of Space Marines.

 

With this one, I'm not happy with the angle of the wires on the abdomen. Similarly to the aquila above, I'll leave them.

 

And here's a close-up of the altered ankle armour:

 

I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback. Do let me know if you feel like something looks silly or wrong (size of the knee pads?) - I'll try to fix that in the next batch of models.

[Firedrake Cordova]

I think they'll look great with a coat of paint

[MoriyaSchism]

Great work so far. I used to have trouble cutting, sanding and smoothing green stuff after the fact so I ended up switching to yellow Milliput or a mixture of yellow Milliput and green stuff. If you're looking for smaller drill bits I can recommend the ones made by JLC Tools.

JLC P008 is the name of the set I got. 

 

[Terminatorinhell]

Very good GS casting! I was batting around the idea of doing similar, taking little things I like from old marines. 

[TheArtilleryman]

Yep, great job as usual on your conversions. Keep up the good work!

[Grotsmasha]

Yeah, I agree with those above, these are going to look fantastic with paint on them

[Rusted Boltgun]

All that GS work looks a lot cleaner than anything I've attempted with the stuff! Some fine details too. Have you used moulds for some of the eagle work?

The only piece that jarred for me was the large knee pad - probably because I have no video game frame of reference. It doesn't look bad to my eyes - just different. Doesn't stand out in the group shot.

[MoriyaSchism]

4 hours ago, Rusted Boltgun said:

All that GS work looks a lot cleaner than anything I've attempted with the stuff! Some fine details too. Have you used moulds for some of the eagle work?

The only piece that jarred for me was the large knee pad - probably because I have no video game frame of reference. It doesn't look bad to my eyes - just different. Doesn't stand out in the group shot.

Space Marine models in Dawn of War II had similar proportions. There was some variation in poleyn design and size.

Edited May 18 by MoriyaSchism

[Brother Christopher]

Thank you for the amazing feedback; I appreciate it a lot since after completing this stage of work, I feel a strange loss of motivation - probably resulting from the realisation how much time all of this takes ;) I think I'll be further revaluating the scope of conversion work but that's to be determined after I finish the backpacks for these guys.

 

@MoriyaSchism Thanks for the suggestions. I've been reading a lot of good about mixing green stuff and Milliput but I loathe working with the latter because of how messy it is. Having said that, I'm getting around to trying it out for the better properties. GS is nicer and quicker to work with.

 

Also thank you for posting the image from the game: seeing someone find and quote the reference reassures me that I'm on the right track.

 

In terms of short-term planning, I think I'll try to arm one of these guys with an old missile launcher. I think I'll want to primarily use these models for kill team, if it comes to that, so a ML seems a good pick. Having said that, I don't think I'll be fiddling with more 'firstborn' weapons for these guys...

 

Apart from my planned count-as eradicators, that is...

[Sir Clausel]

This looks AMAZING! Love the work you have done here! Love to see somebody using molds to great effect here!

I find that milliput is much much easier to smooth out so the line between putty and plastic is way easier to blur. Mostly because its water soluble

[MoriyaSchism]

2 hours ago, Brother Christopher said:

 

@MoriyaSchism Thanks for the suggestions. I've been reading a lot of good about mixing green stuff and Milliput but I loathe working with the latter because of how messy it is. Having said that, I'm getting around to trying it out for the better properties. GS is nicer and quicker to work with.

 

Mixing Milliput can be a real pain but it's a bit different when combined with green stuff. It tends to behave more like GS. A 50/50 mixture of Milliput and GS works best when you need something detailed that also needs to blend smoothly with the host miniature. I also use less water when I work with pure Milliput because too much water makes it messy and flakey. Even a tiny droplet will make things get runny and weird, I use just enough so it doesn't stick to my tools. I use pure Milliput when plugging holes in surfaces that need to be sanded smooth like armour plates.

[Brother Argent]

They look utterly amazing @Brother Christopher.  That is exactly that I hope to do at some point when and if I return to my Leopards Argent/Star Leopards.  I agree about the sameness of the Primaris.  I don't have any experience with sculpting, at least not half decently, so hats off to you and your amazing work.  I hope you keep going on this project as, in a few years when I get tired of painting orange and want to punish myself again I will need inspiration/a guide for how to bring my Leopards to life.

Edited May 18 by Brother Argent