2k Ironstorm list, 2 paths needing thoughts on

[chapter master 454]

So recently, been running ironstorm detachment and getting good results. The main focus being on using Land Raiders as the focus of "Mercy is Weakness" to ensure that whatever I want dead, dies. It isn't always needed but is the central combo of the army and main reason I did this. So here's the current layout:

 

Chaplain with Master of Machine War

 

Techmarine with Adept of the Omnissiah

 

Techmarine with Target Augury

 

Land Raider with all the trimmings

 

Land Raider Crusader with all the trimmings

 

2x Centurion Squads (3 man) with Twin-Lascannons and Missile Launchers

 

2x Redemptor Dreadnoughts with Macro-Plasma, Fragstorms, Icarus and Onslaught

 

2x Predator Destructors with heavy bolters and all trimmings

 

Sternguard Squad with Bolt Rifles, Heavy Bolter and sergeant with power fist

 

Callidus Assassin

 

Inquisitorial Henchmen

 

 

The list currently does do well but I feel I can improve it. Main issues I want to sort is mainly centred around ether replacing the Predator Destructors or possibly saving points from the Redemptors, alongside replacing the sternguard and chaplain (they do good but I am feeling they are redundant and ultimately should be axed for alternate HQ options and to have a unit that is meant to do objectives and not be split between doing objectives and doing plink damage to activate mercy is weakness (or just clear remaining no-name chaff around the tanks).

 

One direction is to ditch the chaplain, sternguard and both destructors and replace them with the Combi-Weapon lieutenant (with master of machine war), scouts and 2x ballistis dreadnoughts. This gives me a more durable gun turret who also hits better against armoured targets (something I am finding a lot on the flanks in ether transports, monsters or even full on tank commanders of the imperial guard!). The scouts give me a nice unit to have jump off the board regularly and just come back in to do trouble objectives that I normally can't do because I only have the callidus (Behind Enemy Lines, Investigate Signals) and the lieutenant is a fairly minimal risk totem pole to carry the master of machine war, an enhancement that has proven to be IMMENSE in application as so far the fall back and shoot factor has come into play so many times, meaning I have full on 2+ to hit when with techmarine boost.

 

The other direction is more involved and goes like this:

 

3x Techmarines (each one carries one of the enchancements)

 

Kayvaan Shrike

 

Land Raider with all the trimmings

 

Land Raider Crusader with all the trimmings

 

2x Centurion Squads (3 man) with Twin-Lascannons and Missile Launchers

 

2x Predator Destructors with heavy bolters and all trimmings

 

2x Predator Annhilators with lascannons and all trimmings

 

Assault intercessor (with jump packs) squad with power fist on sergeant, 2x Plasma Pistols (because the sergeant can have one)

 

Scout Squad with Chainsword on sergeant, sniper rifle, Shotgun and Missile Launcher

 

Callidus Assassin

 

Inquisitorial Henchmen

 

 

This one gives me a massive amount more bodies by giving up both redemptors for predator annihilators instead (this saves 160 points. Quite a difference), and now I have Shrike as well heading up a squad of Assault Intercessors. This version gives a massive boost to my ability to place units across the board and even have reasonable chances are assassinating backline holders. Shrikes squad can easily handle any light trouble I pick and with Lone-Op on the whole squad, dealing with it isn't as simple as pointing guns at him. This list does lose the GODLY macro-plasma but I have been rolling HOT on these for a good few games now (and I mean hot as in good hot, not the bad kind) and the melee component of the dreadnoughts isn't coming up as much as I would think. The switch to Annhilators is to add more anti-tank saturation, and Ironstorm works well with these variants which is always a boon. Naturally leaning on a bit of a gimmick with Shrike here but ultimately he is heading up a utility unit that does any number of tasks for me, from objective doing in tandem with the Callidus and Scouts or gets sent into places that I normally can't reach because of needing to drive around all the ruins!

 

 

Thoughts on both ideas here. One certainly feels more direct while the other feels more experimental, however both retain the major core of the list in the land raiders and centurions with the standard combo always being present.

Edited February 18 by chapter master 454

[Tacitus]

On the second one, how are you shielding Shrike?  No Lone Operative, and no squad that I can see.   Can you turn the Assault Intercessors into Jump Assault intercessors?  Then he's got a squad he can lead, which brings his leadership ability into play as well. 

 

What if you go the other way?  Instead of doing RG (IH Themed) Mechanized in an IH Det, do RG (IH Themed) Mechanized list in the RG Det.  Instead of giving all those tanks +1 to kill stuff, you give them -1 to get killed.   You've already got overkill alphastrike with all the heavy vehicles with heavy (potent) weaponry.  Your opponent is already going to struggle with enough of their own anti-tank to keep up with a somewhat skew list, its going to be even worse when the anti-tank they DO have is even less satisfactory.  Doubly so with your lack of Infantry Bodies for scoring. 

[chapter master 454]

Fixed that problem, it was always supposed to be Jump Intercessors. Brain did not remember the jump packs!

 

However on the whole "do Vanguard". That was a detachment I tried for a long time. Multiple times. It doesn't give kill power and while durability from -1 to being hit is nice, that eventually falls away once things get into the mid game.

As for overkill, the "Mercy is Weakness" combo with Target Augury is just one way for me to delete things. I have had times now where the combo doesn't get used just because the opponent doesn't have a list meant to eat such fire-power. However the other benefits of the detachment do show themselves over Vanguard regulary, such as Master of Machine War allowing a vehicle to fall back and still shoot (very important for land raiders as so they can allow other units to help clear melee issues), Target Augury even without the combo is still plenty nasty and does work just by itself (a lethal hit lascannon is surprising value in ironstorm, can lead to a kept re-roll for damage) and the king of durability that outshines Vanguard is Adept of the Omnissiah; this ability alone just stuffs a lot of damage that could come through. With Armour of Contempt and cover, land raiders are saving AP3 shots on 3+, and if it does have good damage and I fail one: zeroed. You have to land a second success before you even roll damage against the target, and when the land raiders are recovering D3 wounds a turn it just feels impossible to kill them.

And to note on that: only 2 games have seen land raider deaths, and both games were only 1 land raider kill each. One was the Necrons with the Nightbringer and the second was Imperial guard because someone forgot about tank commander's "Death befitting an officer" with a demolisher cannon isn't something to laugh at if you don't have Adept of the Omnissiah ready to cover you. Otherwise, I have had games where a land raider goes to 4 wounds and then by game finish is back to, or nearly at, full wounds again.

You don't get that with Vanguard which wants you to use infantry for moving things around and I don't want to just rehash Uriel Deep striking centurions.

 

Right now, the field that has been faced has shown ability to deal with armour in some cases, and others not so much. Been a bit of an Imperial Guard craze as well in my group...been fighting the game now something like 3 times out of 4 over the last month...and not the same list ether, different players but the general strat they have is similar...bunch of indirects and just get points via objectives and hope I can't kill their objective monkeys too quickly.

The other thing I need to make clear is that bringing my guns to bear is a MAJOR hurdle on the tables I play which are UKTC boards, so terrain is all ruins that are positioned to not only block LoS but also makes moving tanks a massive task to plan out and often I have had to break my castle of 2 raiders apart and designate a techmarine to both, needing to decide which tank needs which buff more. It has been shown to be the right play, just need to be able to assess which buff goes where better. general rule should be Lethal hits with the crusader and adept with the Phobos. This leads to my Land Raiders often needing to contend with targets at ranges less than full range and often less than 24", with occassional cross board snipes possible to help support other areas. So you will be surprised, my Alpha Strike doesn't happen as you would think, it is a very dodgy game of NIM and I have to break the pattern by using my Land Raiders to soak damage more often than not via Armour + Adept (and again, Adept does FAR more than Vanguard. Having the surefire "no" card is much better than tipping odds).