The Great Slaughter

[Kneebiter]

On 2/21/2024 at 12:13 PM, SkimaskMohawk said:

Bikes are objectively not a screening unit, especially not when compared to jetbikes; you get fewer models, cost more points, and have a lower max unit size. They share the very limited vanguard slot, but can't be taken in the compulsory part of skyhunter, meaning you can take a total of six per demi company, aerial assault, and skyhunter formation.  Pretty much every other non vehicle is a better screen.

I know it has a Vanguard slot, but the Aerial Assault formation requires everything to Fly or be in a Flyer.  We haven't seen anything yet that fits the AA Vanguard slot.

[SkimaskMohawk]

8 hours ago, Kneebiter said:

I know it has a Vanguard slot, but the Aerial Assault formation requires everything to Fly or be in a Flyer.  We haven't seen anything yet that fits the AA Vanguard slot.

 

Ya it's kinda funny because currently that doesn't allow any vanguard unit to be taken. The options i can think of are like, seekers and recons thatd fit the vanguard role and then qualify for a dedicated transport.

 

Also, different note, me and crabz were looking at the stuff flast night after our game and it seems that deathstorm detachments end up shooting themselves. Doesn't really matter since they run out of ammo and are useless, but still funny.

 

Oh also, while the artillery formation is dumb, it's also 430 minimum and comes with a benefit the marauder pathfinder provides sitting in the corner of the table, so idk. Pioneer rapiers are still hyper dumb.

[Crablezworth]

Pioneer and no limit infiltrate is the current worse offender for upsetting important incentives. I have to experience this from both ends because RG's trait is just silly if not restricted. 

 

I love the idea of infiltrate but having no limits on it just isn't good, especially considering anyone can take solar aux pioneer formation as allies. The buy in sadly with tarantulas is really really cheap, the entire baseline formation is 122pts, 1 hq 4 veletarii and 2 detachments of tarantulas (las or aa or mix of both)

 

That's 3 detachments right there being able to infiltrate anywhere on the board outside the enemy's deployment zone or 4 inches from an enemy unit. And that's just the compulsory, the optional slots, oh good, I can take a detachment of 8 infiltrating charonite ogrnys, a core detachment, which can mean possibly more ogryns. 2 vanguard detachments, not like the 200pts u can spend there won't get you 16 sentinels with an insane amount of firepower, who themselves have foward deployment. and rounding out optionals an air support slot.

 

Add to that the choice slot is battle tank/artillery/another air support. Anyway, not all of that infiltrates obviously but jut the infantry alone being able to, sort of renders transports not pointless but certainly not as useful or needed, you don't need a vehicle if u can just teleport where you'd like to be before the game even starts. 

 

I'm excited for arvus's and dracosans, but the existence of this formation is a big bummer, because as much as I love rule of cool and models, I'm still a fairly pragmatic person and I don't want a million of each just to sit on a shelf collecting dust, and they sort of will in some respects because they're largely rendered obsolete by just getting infiltrate for free. There's some argument to at least still offering some protection in the case of the dracosan, but it's often more expensive than its occupants. 

 

 

 

I think another tangential issue that conspires to make infiltrate more annoying and abuseable is, because friendly units can move through other friendly units without penalty, u can bubble wrap while infiltrating and pay no penalty to causality/activation. It's too easy for a unit being encircled by another friendly unit to pay no activation penalty for it because the detachment can just phase through the friendly detachment as if its isn't there. This is only tangentially connected to infiltrate but, it's a core issue I feel that does affect the game negatively even without infiltrate taken into account, example, its too lenient to parking lots and really stretches credibility and immersion. I can see friendly infantry parting like the red sea to accommodate the passing of a column of tanks but by immersion stops when that same tank column is melting through other friendly tank columns as if they weren't there. 

 

I'll live with stuff like larger scale detachments simply not being pinned/moving out of engagement/combat but it really strains credibility to have super heavies gracefully driving over other detachments without being slowed or causing any damage.