Unit comparison for BA list building.

[Brother Raul]

Hail Brothers!

                        Trying to compare newer units as there are so many units and so few restrictions it's more of a challenge to build a list, but that's the adventure!

 

Particularly I'd love to hear people's experiences with a few units.

 

Ultimately the list will be a pretty standard BA SOS detachment rush list with some dedicated armoured anti armour. 

 

2000 points doesn't seem to go as far as it used to and some units synergie better with our detachment than others.

 

What do people think about Hellblasters V interceptors, BA synergy specifically? Heavily leaning towards a 3 man interceptor squad for the obvious reasons but does the heavy on hellblasters help them keep up?

 

They are expensive units ultimately in a detachment with little help for shooting but geez I've seen them (particularly hellblasters) punish OATH targets. Just terrified to roll hazards on a 3 man unit of interceptors.

 

Also aggressors v terminators? (sorry this is an old chestnut). Are Aggressors that slow (no I am not using a transport). Actually never used either but like the flexibility of terminators and deploy teleport homer seems easy points, think both aren't charging until turn 3?

 

Erradicators? Geez they look good on paper but how does the long range shooting actually play out? Also like aggressors, do they get let behind?

 

To get a comparison right, how do the mechanics of the DC dread special rule function? Does it attack with both melee and shooting and are those attacks resolved after each incoming attack or at the end of the opponent's fight phases?

 

Trying to work out if it's cheap or expensive but think it's probably worth it over our relatively squishy characters. Mephiston is a boss but has taken a big hit to durability since his Demon prince stat line in 5th and Dante has never been a tank.

 

Lemartes probably makes the point better.

 

Another question; is this the edition of the Baal predator? Vanguard tactics have been pumping it up as a Calidus delete button and I am itching to use a CP on overwatch.

 

Final question is what rules do you see benefiting BA list building? Lethal hits/ sustained hits seem easy to doll out for a few points and double strategems seem great as well.

 

Thank you brothers! For the lady! I mean for the emperor! (I watch too much table top tactics).

[Montoya]

Lots to compare there.   And to be honest, some aren't comparable.

 

Hellblasters vs. Inceptors.    Inceptors all the way.   I've never found Hellblasters do enough vs. other targets (say your aggressors for example).   I love the look and concept of Hellblasters.  They've always been "okay" for me.    But Inceptors have never let me down.    I'm tinkering with the assault bolters vs. plasma on them.   On paper I think plasma is better, but to be honest in practice they seem to be similar (and would solve your concern re: hazardous).     The other thing I would say is Hazardous isn't as bad as it once was.    You only roll 3 dice.     Statistically that means you lose one guy every other turn.   In all likelihood you're dead before it matters given that you'll be potentially deepstriking into your opponent's backfield.

 

Agressors vs. Terminators, are not comparable.   Completely different use cases.  In terms of getting them to the front lines/midfield if that is your plan, then terminators have a step up due to deepstriking.     Alternatively both are a good use for a Librarian Dread.     I love the 4 wounds on the assault terminators with SS.   There are many 3 wound guns out there, but not many 4.    Agresssors are better in Gladius due to the synergies with the strats etc. there.    So I would lean towards Terminators for SOS.

 

Eradicators were good in last edition.  Don't have quite enough punch this edition.   They're still not bad mind you.   So I'm not saying they suck.   I've tried to fit them into my list many times.  With the change to our army special rule to get the +2 Strength, we now get to the range where DC with Powerfists wound vehicles with similar reliability, but have sheer volume of attacks, and synergize with our strats better.   So My advice is leave the Eradicators for the Salamanders

 

Mephiston's problem is that he doesn't synergize with the units you can put him with.   I haven't taken him since 9th edition for that reason.

 

Dante as you note is not a tank, but you gotta love the new model, and he generally is still quite useful.   I'm 50/50 on the times I take him.    Once I got his model painted, I took him every time for a while.    Key with him is counting on him as your counter punch unit.  not your main punch.

 

Lemartes never disappoints.

 

On the DC dread, it does state in the rule that it is EITHER shoot OR fight.      It also says "as if it were your shooting phase or fight phase".     So you would do it right away.    So if you're in melee and you get shot, you get a free round of melee attacks if you like.

 

Edited February 19 by Montoya

[Ash]

Inceptors can score objectives they have mobility and can be placed anywhere on the board, literally.  They are also a Callidis killer.   Hellblasters are T4 marines that need to be protected till you can find a target to shoot them with.  Nice to have but not high scoring like the Inceptors.

 

Terminators are tougher than Aggressors and score, once down its unlikely they are going away.  In SOS with the charge they are a much nastier melee unit than you think.

 

I've run a Baal Flamer Pred to good effect with JPDC.  The Pred partially screens the DC, discourages blobs near it, threatens overwatch continuously  and catches a lot of bullets.  You need that charge in SOS with JPDC, the Flamer Baal helps create that positioning and pulls its weight with out of turn shooting and doesn't care about cover.  I'll always start JPDC on the board.

 

You've not mentioned Blade Guard Veterans.  I rate these highly as a stubborn backfield objective holder or as an offensive unit.  3 on home objective, hard to kill and very very nasty in melee with our SOS rules.  Or you can put 6 of them in a LR redeemer with a Captain and they are a murderball, that or JPDC, always with Lemartes. 

[Karhedron]

I favour Inceptors over Hellblasters. Bolter Inceptors get Sustained Hits 2 and Twin-linked which usually gets a satisfying buckets of hits that can usually force a decent number of wounds through. Plasma Inceptors are also pretty decent. They get 2 Damage without having to overcharge which is great for clearing MEQs. Alternatively you can overcharge for 3 Damage the threaten vehicles, Terminators, Custodians etc.

 

Terminators and Aggressors work slightly differently despite their similar stats. Terminators are an anvil unit that can deal damage at a push. Use Deep Strike to get them on an Objective and hold it. Aggressors are a hammer unit but they really only work to full power in a Gladius detachment (bolter variant Fire Discipline on an Apothecary Biologis) or Firestorm Detachment (flamer variant with Gravis Captain for free Immolation Protocols). Aggressors need to be built around but Terminators can be dropped in almost anywhere.

 

I have found Eradicators very effective. They get full rerolls to Hit and Wound vs Vehicles and Monsters which is usually enough to get the damage to stick. They really need a Land Raider for deployment though, I still tend to run my trusty Devastator squad with 4 Lascannons for anti-tank work. They are not very showy but they are cheap and effective provided you can draw LOS. Las Fusil Eliminators are another option as they get movement shenanigans if you take the carbine sergeant. However the S9 on the Fusils isn't quite enough to be the primary anti-tank in my experience.

 

Mephiston actually works quite well with Sternguard Veterans. He has a decent amount of firepower and can risk overcharging both his plasma pistol and Fury of the Ancients thanks to his 5+ FNP. He also adds a massive deterrent factor against anyone thinking of charging the Sternguard as the whole lot gets Fights First and Mephiston adds a lot of melee punch. You might even choose to charge against weaker targets,

 

Lemartes and 10 Jump DC are pure gold. Just beware, I suspect the Firstborn Death Company will be replaced with Primaris ones in the new Codex so our current 10 Power Fist and 10 Inferno Pistol build might not last for long. Bear this in mind before you throw lots of money at a squad. If you already have them then enjoy while the sun shines.

[Brother Raul]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:36 AM, Ash said:

Inceptors can score objectives they have mobility and can be placed anywhere on the board, literally.  They are also a Callidis killer.   Hellblasters are T4 marines that need to be protected till you can find a target to shoot them with.  Nice to have but not high scoring like the Inceptors.

 

Terminators are tougher than Aggressors and score, once down its unlikely they are going away.  In SOS with the charge they are a much nastier melee unit than you think.

 

I've run a Baal Flamer Pred to good effect with JPDC.  The Pred partially screens the DC, discourages blobs near it, threatens overwatch continuously  and catches a lot of bullets.  You need that charge in SOS with JPDC, the Flamer Baal helps create that positioning and pulls its weight with out of turn shooting and doesn't care about cover.  I'll always start JPDC on the board.

 

You've not mentioned Blade Guard Veterans.  I rate these highly as a stubborn backfield objective holder or as an offensive unit.  3 on home objective, hard to kill and very very nasty in melee with our SOS rules.  Or you can put 6 of them in a LR redeemer with a Captain and they are a murderball, that or JPDC, always with Lemartes. 

Thanks, another sub question was going to be about about giving DC a transport and that was a big help.

[Karhedron]

I agree, DC are better with Jump Packs. It is cheaper than a transport and you don't have to worry about disembarking before moving. Also you can get Lemartes to lead them who is a great upgrade Character for DC.