Games with the new DA codex. Page 4: NEW Detachment Rules!

[Prot]

Agreed on the scouts.... I had 2 units in for a while. Ironically some of the green wing that does work is typically the cheaper stuff. For example I actually think a small 5 man squad of deep striking Assault Int. with jump packs actually is decent. The Scouts have been good to me, but maybe I'll try one squad.

 

I just want to make sure of something here: When you make up your reserves, things with "Deep strike" don't count correct? That is to say strategic reserves is limited to a certain percentage of your list, but that doesn't include Deep Strike units? (I'm asking because I saw a batrep where the DA player was not able to deep strike eveything he wanted to. If he was correct, I've been doing this wrong for a LOOONG time!)

 

 

 

[ashc]

2 hours ago, Prot said:

Agreed on the scouts.... I had 2 units in for a while. Ironically some of the green wing that does work is typically the cheaper stuff. For example I actually think a small 5 man squad of deep striking Assault Int. with jump packs actually is decent. The Scouts have been good to me, but maybe I'll try one squad.

 

I just want to make sure of something here: When you make up your reserves, things with "Deep strike" don't count correct? That is to say strategic reserves is limited to a certain percentage of your list, but that doesn't include Deep Strike units? (I'm asking because I saw a batrep where the DA player was not able to deep strike eveything he wanted to. If he was correct, I've been doing this wrong for a LOOONG time!)

 

 

 

 

Whilst Strategic Reserves rule has a points limit, other special rules that give Reserves abilities do not count towards that limit and Deep Strike is one of them. 

 

That sounds like they got it wrong on the batrep.

 

 

[Prot]

The thing to remember is that the Vowed Objective relates only to Inner Circle keyword units. So for that reason alone I always run at least one squad. Adding characters to units does help, but I am finding the only way to get any real mileage out of the terminators is to use them with this detachment.  Being able to:

1. Have +1 to wound with the maces/swords is imperative. 2. Accessing the strat that allows re-roll of 1's or ALL to wound on the Vowed Objective is huge.

 

That said, hopefully at this point GW can see that they've annihilated the codex out of the gate. This is one of the first full week's results with the new Dark Angels codex in play at tournaments. The following is from Den of Fools Youtube channel where they do weekly meta updates.

 

 

Keep in mind that this win percentage is from within Space Marines as a category and they stink overall. So this is in fact, the stinkiest of the stinkers. Welcome to the rock.... where things appear to have sunk to the bottom.

 

There is a good number of players which is important to keep the stats more real. 

 

James Workshop: give your head a shake. You just released these guys and in the larger picture they are arguably doing worse than AdMech (they have a 43% win rate). 

 

In theory, when you think about it, the Dark Angels really shouldn't be doing worse than the vanilla codex win rate since most players (that I have witnessed) are just playing the Gladius. I believe the non-Gladius players probably have a worse than 38.3% win rate.

 

I think we need to start fielding those Inner Circle guys and Belial more often. Let's see if we can get to a 31% win rate! (In all seriousness I haven't seen people use these in GT's and I keep waiting for someone to unleash the power of these guys out on the world.)

 

[ashc]

Wow, that looks pretty brutal.

 

Goonhammer does a good roundup of tournament results each week and mentioned that Dark Angels will officially come in to play in next week's results roundup - I'm interested in seeing what comes about.

 

I predict that the strongest builds will initially be around Company of Hunters bike spam until people learn to deal with it and I'm keen on seeing if Inner Circle Task Force has any real teeth at tournament level - I'm not exactly optimistic.

 

Alternatively we may just see Gladius and Ironstorm builds with Azrael and not much else...

[Karhedron]

On 3/19/2024 at 1:46 PM, Prot said:

Honestly I'm afraid of trying bike lists. I mean what happened to the DW command squad? New models happened. They got lazy, didn't make a kit/sprue, and yanked the rules.

 

Yes there is a realistic risk of that happening but one of the benefits of being early in the release cycle is that anything you build now will be valid at least until 11th edition. That is 2 and a half years of glorious battles (which is longer than 7th edition lasted IIRC).

 

Bite the bullet and build the bikes. Ride hard, live fast and if they burn out in 11th, at least they will have had fun in the meantime. 

[Malakithe]

On 3/18/2024 at 6:27 AM, Prot said:

That's a cool idea. I'd love to see how it turns out.

 

So I had another game, and it happened to be against a nasty Ork list again. (pretty much Sean Nayden's from LVO).

 

This time I did not get first turn... and wow did I get spanked. There was one big difference in my army, I tried using the Lion. It really didn't work... I still didn't find him remotely useful. But in part, I take responsibility for misplaying him.

 

This game I decided to deep strike him. That was a huge mistake. In T1 (Orks went first) there was no where to put him. A zillion orks and Ghaz with the larger beast models and mobs pretty much consumed 60% of the table. In hindsight, I should have just put him on the table ( as I normally would) and just let him make a stand in the middle objective. 

 

So I was pinned early and the Terminator heavy build doesn't do enough here. The shooting I have is secondary and this reinforces to me that Space Marines still largely live and die on the shooting and if anything the termies are probably best used sparingly and I know this isn't a surprise to anyone, but with the Inner circle detachment, I still think this is where they operate best.

 

In the end I did get Ghaz down at mid table but I lost so much by Turn 3 only the Lion and 5 Termies where untouched where I lost Azrael and Hellblasters, most of my marine bodies, and my bigger tanks/dread were pinned and I was unable to score. I could never take an objective for longer than my turn. There was just far too many Orks, and claws. The Whag turn itself is so punishing to Termies that the -1 damage just seems useless because you're drowning in hits.

 

I would say I even felt frustration with the normal Termies. A 5 man unit with with Cyclone firing a 2D6 frag missile getting boxcars on a 20 man boy unit could only get about 3-4 kills. (He had the Doc in the list... so 5+ followed by a 5++ FNP). So hard to kill anything even with Oath on it. Wounding on 5's with zero AP against an army so numerous is just painful.

 

Highlight moment: Finally Asmodai with Bladeguard (Probably one of the best units repeatedly in my lists) went head to head with Ghaz!! Guess what happened? Ghaz died, but played "Fight on Death" and killed 3 Bladeguard before gasping his last breath! But wait a second.... my opponent and I realized I actually had a moment to use Asmodai's special rule!!!! So he graciously let us back up the phase a bit (I think he was as curious as me since this has never worked yet...) So Ghaz is dead, and Asmodai forces a Battle Shock test at -1.... Ghaz fails! Which means he can't play fight on Death, and I get to put my 3 BGV back!!! Finally it came into effect. A rare, cool moment in an otherwise slaughterfest of a game.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

I think the lack of killing factor in this army is weighing heavily on its ability to win. The downside of this is the more I try to add 'potency' to the army, the less it looks like Deathwing, and the more I'm tempted to just go back to the Marine codex.

 

Inner Circle Detachment continues to be something I try to make work (In my mind I see no point in using this codex at all if I don't.) The IC Detachment does have fun tricks, but I am realizing it's based on units that dilute efficiency in a codex that's already full of low impact models.

 

The Lion had a tough outing.  At 350 he's still hard to see value in especially if you want to use Deathwing heavily. If I would have played him normally, I predict he would have wacked a unit then died like normal. I mean a mountain of fists is just asking too much of Dad's shield. In this game I made the mistake of putting him reserves, and then was forced into a bad spot, and he simply avoided the lion. Again, I take responsibility for this misplay, but I really would have liked 250 points of shooting. Most games people just run from him or pop him after he's exposed.

 

The best units continue to be largely generic: Lancer Tank, Asmodai + BGV, Ballistus (cheap), and to a lesser degree: Az and Hellblasters. They are good, but you definitely pay for them. In this game I lost them all in one assault from fist boyz in a battle wagon. (He made a very long charge, and I never had a chance.) I'm thinking of going back to 10 Hellbasters with Az again (old school.)

 

 

What was the Ork list that was so brutal?

 

Also with those stats what makes a list BA or DA? Detachments arent tied to chapters so are they using Chapter specific units then?

Edited March 21 by Malakithe

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Also with those stats what makes a list BA or DA? Detachments arent tied to chapters so are they using Chapter specific units then?

 

I think it is the special units. Azrael plus a couple of Dark Shrouds bring a lot to an Ironstorm detachment. It may not seem classically DA but it technically qualifies. This is what worries me slightly about whether GW realises they have over-nerfed DAs.

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

I think it is the special units. Azrael plus a couple of Dark Shrouds bring a lot to an Ironstorm detachment. It may not seem classically DA but it technically qualifies. This is what worries me slightly about whether GW realises they have over-nerfed DAs.

I feel darkshrouds are about the only DA unique unit that should be a staple. Everything else seems to be under performing in various spots. 

[Prot]

2 hours ago, Malakithe said:

What was the Ork list that was so brutal?

 

Also with those stats what makes a list BA or DA? Detachments arent tied to chapters so are they using Chapter specific units then?

 

The Ork list was the one that went 6-0 at LVO. (I think that was the record). Basically it's the typical nasty stuff you can find on any top GT Ork list. Not a lot of creativity in this guy's list, it was just the very strong characters, followed by a large contingent of board control, hard to shift elites, and a ton of heavy hitting bodies. 

 

This Ork list is only second to Death Guard I think in neutering an Inner Circle Termie list. (The Deathguard lists I've played against just inherently make terminators 'bad'. -1 to saves and -1 Toughness aura.)

 

The chapter specifics are what Kar said.... it boils down to HQ's and a chapter's abilities to leverage specialized units that define the chapter. Some of these just utilize the Gladius better than others.

 

Again, none of the competitive (GT) games I've seen with DA have been using inner circle yet.

 

On the Shroud... yea I may have to get one of those again but it probably won't do a ton in an inner circle list. Before I sold my DA I did use it a ton with my pre-codex DA and I did like it.

[Tacitus]

18 hours ago, Malakithe said:

What was the Ork list that was so brutal?

 

Also with those stats what makes a list BA or DA? Detachments arent tied to chapters so are they using Chapter specific units then?

Rock Paper Scissors semi-hard counters.  Buckets full of Orks vs a trickle of Terminators.

[Master Ciaphas]

Hail!

I have still to get my first game in, with the new Dark Angels...and 10th ed. also. I will be going to a narrative-ish weekend tournament in mid June, where it is 1000 or 1500p lists. I am aiming to bring this:

 

Inner Circle Detachment

Belial

Librarian

(Chaplain - if points allow)

5 Deathwing Knights with maces

5 Deathwing Terminators (Assault Cannon and a chainfist or two)

5 Deathwing Terminators (Plasma Cannon and a chainfist or two)

5 Deathwing Terminators (Cyclone Missile Launcher and a chainfist or two)

Brutalis Dreadnought

(Redemptor Dreadnought or Balistus Dreadnought - if points allow)

 

Cheers!

 

[Karhedron]

On 3/19/2024 at 5:34 AM, Tacitus said:

The problem with Shootinators isn't obvious I think, because it isn't a "first order" operation.  T5, 2+/4++ is better than T6 3+/Nada and  3+D6 is better that 2/4-if-in-12 so yea a points diff is supported.  But the real trip-up is the Lieutenant(in this case Biologis).  The Aggressor Bomb works because you get to stack SH1, LH, and Exploding 5's instead of 6's.   Even if you did it with Terminators you're missing LH from half your hits.   Hell its another shortfall for the flamer Aggressors too.  The "raison d'etre" for flamer Aggressors is they auto-hit.  When you make the Aggressor bomb 1/3 of your shots miss BUT you get 1/3 of your shots generating 2 hits.  AND you get 1/3 of your hits Auto-wounding.  Stacking Lethal and Sustained at the same rate you miss is huge.   Without the Lieutenant the Shootinators can't stack it.  They end up about even with the Flamagressors and they've been behind the Boltagressors for a while now.   And both have the power fists for cleanup on a muffed dice roll, or extremely large chaff unit.   Give Terminators a Lieutenant with LH and they'd get a whole lot closer.   I really don't know what they were thinking making a Gravis Biologis while trying to push the Terminator Edition. 

 

I think there is more too it than this. Space Wolves do actually have a Terminator Lt option (Wolf guard Battle Leader in TDA). He brings Lethal Hits and can access Fire Discipline if you run the Wolves in a Gladius but I haven't seen anyone running that combo. This leeds me to think that Terminators need more than just a Lt topion to compete with Aggressors.

 

Or maybe I am just the first person to spot the option. Look out for my 10-man Wolf Guard squad teleporting in with a Fire Discipline Battle Leader storming my army to the top of the tournement tables in 3 months time. 

[Tacitus]

8 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

I think there is more too it than this. Space Wolves do actually have a Terminator Lt option (Wolf guard Battle Leader in TDA). He brings Lethal Hits and can access Fire Discipline if you run the Wolves in a Gladius but I haven't seen anyone running that combo. This leeds me to think that Terminators need more than just a Lt topion to compete with Aggressors.

 

Or maybe I am just the first person to spot the option. Look out for my 10-man Wolf Guard squad teleporting in with a Fire Discipline Battle Leader storming my army to the top of the tournement tables in 3 months time. 

I wouldn't count on it sticking around.   If the Terminator Chapter didn't get to keep their lieutenant, letting the wolves do so could cause riots.   Also I said they'd get a whole lot closer to as good as an Aggressor Bomb not necessarily surpass it.   If you were to do the Terminator Bomb 10 Terminators, 2 Characters, is 12 Stormbolters, LH/SH1, Crit on 5+ - 48 shots, 12 wounding hits, 48 hit hits = 24 wounding hits + the 12 = 36 wounding hits, 12 1 or 2 armor rolls is 6 Dead Marines, 2 Cyclones is ~14 attacks (AssCan = 12 attacks + Dev Wounds)  9.3 hits + 2 and some change wounding/exploding hits, is 11/2 5+2 (12 hits + 2 Wounding Hits - 14 hits, 7 wounds 2ish Dev, 1 armor fail = 1.5 MEQ)  failwounds another 1/2 = 1 more dead MEQ = 7ish total MEQ deaths for about 570 points.  Take away the Lieutenant and you're losing just a litlte more than a third of that from the Lethal Hits. 

 

Even making the Aggressor Bomb with Calgar (for Secondary benefits a generic Gravis Captain doesn't have) you''re looking at 510 points for 6 aggressors getting 6.5ish (plus blast) shots plus the leaders who get more wonky with Calgar's super pistols and the Apothecary's bigger pistol for somewhere around 45 shots and similar breakdowns on misses, hits, exploding hits, auto wounds and so on.

 

The Terminator Bomb has slightly higher output for slightly higher cost - but the ratio of cost to damage is fairly even.  I mean I'm sure we could mathhammer this out even further to actually pick a "winner" but its still going to be close enough for "subjective" preferences like invulns, 1" of movement, teleport strike, unit footprint, and total cost outlay.

 

Edit to Add:  - and I didn't include the Strats:  Storm of Fire doesn't get more expensive for 10 Terminators over 6 Aggressors, nor does Armor of Contempt, so if you want to max CP efficiency you might favor the Terminators with an invuln, Even more bang on the Storm, and even more poof on the AOC. 

Edited March 23 by Tacitus
Mentioning the Strat

[Karhedron]

Thanks for the MathHammer, the Terminators actually come out slightly better than I initially expected.

 

Two things to consider is that Aggressors usually need some deployment mechanism which means either an expensive transport or using a special ability to deploy them (Ventris, Libby Dread etc). Terminators can Deep Strike natively which is a big saving. 

 

Secondly, when I lose Aggressors, it is normally to high damage, high ap attacks rather than chip damage. Terminators get an invuln and would have lasted better in those matchups.

 

Maybe I really should try a SW Termie bomb. 

[Sir Clausel]

44 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Thanks for the MathHammer, the Terminators actually come out slightly better than I initially expected.

 

Two things to consider is that Aggressors usually need some deployment mechanism which means either an expensive transport or using a special ability to deploy them (Ventris, Libby Dread etc). Terminators can Deep Strike natively which is a big saving. 

 

Secondly, when I lose Aggressors, it is normally to high damage, high ap attacks rather than chip damage. Terminators get an invuln and would have lasted better in those matchups.

 

Maybe I really should try a SW Termie bomb. 

 

You really made me want to try that out myself. I have 10 terminators painted and I absolutly love terminators. Didnt think of this combo with them. So thank you for this! This looks like it actually makes terminators great!

Also this is a great thread. I love the positivity and trying to find good things in a codex that has disappointed us.

[Tacitus]

Its all in the "ratio" once you figure it out.  Unit gets X shots per model.  It misses on 1-2, crits on 5-6 which means unit gets X (2/3 X hits + 1/3X Exploding 5+'s) hits per model + 1/3X crit hits that auto-wound - meaning whatever unit gets turned into "The Bomb" does 4/3 X hits per model so the quick look is to count the shots per model multiplied by model cap vs the quality of the shots for a loose evaluation.  Aggressors are 6.5ish shots per model, Terminators are 4 (Rapid Fire) shots per model plus two heavies (in this case the Cyclone to maximize shots per model).  Ravenwing Black Knights (can't get Lethal Hits, but otherwise stay competitive for the wombo combo) are 3 Plasma (Rapid Fire) per model (And cap at 9 models)  5 Desolators with Superfrag cap at 5 models and about 30 shots (2 Indirect + 4.5 Super Frag)  Sternguard will also land in the 30ish shot range for a 10 man with Rapid Fire and Dev Wounds on everything

 

Hellblasters can't get Rapid Fire anymore, Infernusators are flamers and skip over the whole bomb concept.  Phobos units don't get Rapid Fire either.  Vehicles and Cents can't get the enhancement.  Devs only get four Heavy Weapons, so struggle to get the ROF necessary to compete for the Bomb slot.  Outriders can't get a Lieutenant.  HINTS cap out at about 22 shots even though they go to 10 while Aggressors hit in the 40's with 6. 

 

So in theory there's 3-4 options for the gimmick, depending on chapter   Aggressors and (Space Wolves) Terminators somewhat turn into 6 of one, a half dozen of the other.  Black Knights work, but the calculus and "preferred target" chang things up a lot.  Desolators work, but the 5 model cap, and difficulty getting all the shots while indirect,  hurts them. 

28 minutes ago, Sir Clausel said:

 

You really made me want to try that out myself. I have 10 terminators painted and I absolutly love terminators. Didnt think of this combo with them. So thank you for this! This looks like it actually makes terminators great!

Also this is a great thread. I love the positivity and trying to find good things in a codex that has disappointed us.

Remember a big part of the combo with the Terminators is that Space Wolves still have their Terminator Lieutenant datasheet - at least until their supplement comes out. 

[Tacitus]

And I just had a thought on the Sternguard with Combi-weapons:

 

1 Shot + Rapid Fire 1 2 shots, 8 guys (keep the 2 HBs) 16 shots Exploding 5's, Devastating on 4's makes for 8 Dev Wounds, and about 5 regular wounding hits plus another 4 wounding hits, and 10 regular hits which results in 3-4 Dev Wounds (More than one, less than 2 wounding hits that crit on sixes from the D2 Heavy Bolters) as well.  5-6 Dead MEQ 2-3 dead TEQ with pretty much no save now that Dev Wounds are so screwed up and a handful of wounding hits that will chip a little more.  It even gets a little better to reroll 1's to wound against the OOM.

[Malakithe]

4 hours ago, Tacitus said:

And I just had a thought on the Sternguard with Combi-weapons:

 

1 Shot + Rapid Fire 1 2 shots, 8 guys (keep the 2 HBs) 16 shots Exploding 5's, Devastating on 4's makes for 8 Dev Wounds, and about 5 regular wounding hits plus another 4 wounding hits, and 10 regular hits which results in 3-4 Dev Wounds (More than one, less than 2 wounding hits that crit on sixes from the D2 Heavy Bolters) as well.  5-6 Dead MEQ 2-3 dead TEQ with pretty much no save now that Dev Wounds are so screwed up and a handful of wounding hits that will chip a little more.  It even gets a little better to reroll 1's to wound against the OOM.

Based on your maths Sternguard damage output is close enough and significantly cheaper then the 'bomb' ones. They arent as tough sure but you can make up for that via saved points to spend on other things.

[Tacitus]

12 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Based on your maths Sternguard damage output is close enough and significantly cheaper then the 'bomb' ones. They arent as tough sure but you can make up for that via saved points to spend on other things.

The heavier armor bombs aren't stuck on Anti-Infantry for the damage.  They chip everything, the Sternguard are pretty much locked into vs Infantry - which isn't horrible as almost every army is going to have some durable army this shortcut would put a hurt on. 

[Prot]

Well I had another game. It was against Nids'. I'd submit the list but mainly it's just going to be a very short overview and I don't know the name of all the Nid units in play.

 

I'll just start by saying he had a good combination of heavy hitting shooting and a sizeable contingent of assault lead by Geneastealers and lots of Characters. 

 

It did blow me away the amount of special rules he had.... and I was forced to take Battle Shock constantly. And some of it is at -1. I ended up with "paroxsym' on my Deathwing Knights 2-3 turns which sucked horribly.

 

Long story short I somehow had a points lead, but I conceded in T3. I just couldn't do anything more, and I was nearly tabled. The terminators are just useless in this case. For example I lost my regular Deathwing squad in one turn.

 

The Knights squad got blicked pretty easily too. It was just an immense volume of -2 multi damage shooting OR there were two monsters that could one shot the regular termies with 3D shots. Half the time I couldn't play strats from being Battle shocked on main units, and then I would also be -1 attacks, or -1 to hit OR he'd have fights first.

 

It was a total mess. The only units that worked were vanilla, and Azrael. 

 

I did use 10 Sternguard instead of 5-10 Hellblasters. The Sternguard did better than I remember them doing previously however they still fall far short of Hellblasters, but of course there's the cost factor. That said, I'd much prefer Hellblasters for a few reasons, especially with Azrael.

 

At the end of the game my best units were probably: Sternguard and Az, the Lancer tank, and the Ballistus.

 

The units I consider 'okay' were Asmodai w/Assault Intercessors, and the Infernal Flamers (actually not that great, but a small investment).

 

The worst units in my list for the points were definitely the Terminators and characters. The only squad that lasted more than 5 minutes was the squad tied up with his HQ's but I couldn't actually do any damage in assault (as usual.) The Nid Debuffs on top of our lethargic damage made it a tarpit at best, and a losing proposition at worst.

 

I think at this point I'd say this Post Codex Dark Angels army is the worst army I have in 10th. It doesn't do anything great, and most of the new units are really not very good. The game isn't geared well for Terminators at all right now, but the Deathwing ones don't offer enough to go above 1 squad for fun. -1 Damage is all you're living off of, and there are just too many bad match ups for these guys.

 

After about 10+ games with our "Deathwing" I really think they're too expensive to be competitve. Also Terminators as a whole need some teeth. Bladeguard are nearly as survivable and hit harder for the points. Basically you're living and dying by that 4++ and the Bladeguard are actually better there in a defensive stance. And the basic Terminator Bolter NEEDS an upgrade. In the era of everyone gets cover, the lethargic S4, 0AP bolter has no place. You will even struggle to dent T shirt wearing Orks which really doesn't feel right at all. 

 

The detachment is something I give about a 6/10. It has a 'fun' factor but It's too easy to avoid it. Being pinned to a "vowed objective" really makes it easy to avoid. There are some fun strats, but you are leaning so hard into these it feels like you're always treading water for your life. The model count becomes too small, and the 'elite' units in this army just don't work (Inner Circle Companions/Terminators etc). Belail is an absolute travesty of poor rules design imho. 

 

So without any surprise I'm putting the army away for a while. I will continue to play DA a but, but I'm giving up on the units that we'd all like to center our armies on. And I'm ditching this detachment. I give up on it.  It's too frustrating and like I said I'm not getting anywhere in competitive games at all with this army. (The odd win is just me totally outplaying my opponent or luck.)

 

Going forward when I have the stomach for it, I'll just try this army without the signature units I've been using and in a different detachment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaxom]

Thank you, @Prot, for your reports and willingness to try out the detachment in a flavorful way.

 

I'm wondering if it would work better in a 1,000 point game on a smaller table size, but that's probably just me really wishing there was something positive to glean from any of this.

 

Until the meta data starts tracking specific Chapter-detachment combinations for win rates I think it'll be hard to pin down what needs changing. I've heard that Deathwing Knights in Gladius using the Lance&-1AP in Assault Doctrine do pretty well and that measuring sort of thing could be the quantitative data needed to prove they currently have mitten-hands.

[Harleqvin]

It seems problematic to me that DA seem to not work well with their specific detachments, and instead work better with vanilla marine detachments from what many have been talking about.

 

I’m saddened by this (so just more sad icing on the sad cake with all we have lost this edition that was unique to the DA.)

Edited March 26 by Harleqvin

[Master Ciaphas]

Thank you for your many battle reports, Prot. It is very much appreciated! 

 

Dark Angels being the sub-par choice, is really just pretty much par for the course, looking back on our Codex track record since...1994?

[Prot]

17 hours ago, jaxom said:

Thank you, @Prot, for your reports and willingness to try out the detachment in a flavorful way.

 

I'm wondering if it would work better in a 1,000 point game on a smaller table size, but that's probably just me really wishing there was something positive to glean from any of this.

 

Until the meta data starts tracking specific Chapter-detachment combinations for win rates I think it'll be hard to pin down what needs changing. I've heard that Deathwing Knights in Gladius using the Lance&-1AP in Assault Doctrine do pretty well and that measuring sort of thing could be the quantitative data needed to prove they currently have mitten-hands.

 

Well at 1000 points, if you like the Terminator aspect of Dark Angels as much as I do, then I would say no. It's one of the more expensive 5 man units you can put on the table and that alone will make scoring challenging. (Plus they don't kill much above lower level stuff unless you buff the heck out of them.) And if you face someone that has your 'kryptonite' IE: Death Guard, then it becomes a pretty steep hill. 

 

Gladius is probably going to be the answer for everything right now.  (I'm guessing here) It appears any list I make is probably going to do better in Gladius.

 

2 minutes ago, Master Ciaphas said:

Thank you for your many battle reports, Prot. It is very much appreciated! 

 

Dark Angels being the sub-par choice, is really just pretty much par for the course, looking back on our Codex track record since...1994?

 

You're welcome. I realize my last post was pretty negative now that I read it. I was probably posting with a lot of just really bad games under my belt with this codex. All along I'm comparing it to non-DA marines and I think that made it feel a bit worse. My apologies if it comes off heavy handed.

[Raychu]

Thanks Prot for all your feedback.

 

I have just watch a french review of the DAs codex, from a really competitive point of view.

For them, the deathing detachement gives too much info to your opponent to really be useful.

The greenwing detachement looks a bit meh, but the competitive guys pointed out that in a evermoving meta, the battle shock mecchanisms are nowadays not to used, but when they'll get more used (now the only codex using it is the tyranids, but in the future we can predict Drukhari, SMC (night lords), Chaos Knights), this detachement will shine.

and for the ravenwing detachement, they kind of like it. a lot of movements, some possibilities to tank a bit. I have to say that have lost like 2 or 3000 pts with the bikes and land speeders getting to legends, I am not too keen on taking these guys out. but we'll see.