2,000 pt Firestorm with DA

[CCE1981]

Variation off a list prior to points changes, that I thought to add some Dark Angels to:

 

Tempestus Griffons  (2000 Points)

Space Marines
Dark Angels
Firestorm Assault Force
Strike Force (2000 Points)

CHARACTERS

Captain in Gravis Armour (80 Points)
    • Warlord
    • 1x Master-crafted heavy bolt rifle
      1x Master-crafted power weapon

Lieutenant with Combi-weapon (70 Points)
    • 1x Combi-weapon
      1x Paired combat blades

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS

Impulsor (80 Points)
    • 1x Armoured hull
      1x Ironhail heavy stubber
      1x Shield dome
      2x Storm bolter

Impulsor (80 Points)
    • 1x Armoured hull
      1x Ironhail heavy stubber
      1x Shield dome
      2x Storm bolter

OTHER DATASHEETS

Aggressor Squad (240 Points)
    • 1x Aggressor Sergeant
        • 1x Flamestorm gauntlets
          1x Twin power fists
    • 5x Aggressor
        • 5x Flamestorm gauntlets
          5x Twin power fists

Infernus Squad (80 Points)
    • 1x Infernus Sergeant
        • 1x Bolt pistol
          1x Close combat weapon
          1x Pyreblaster
    • 4x Infernus Marine
        • 4x Bolt pistol
          4x Close combat weapon
          4x Pyreblaster

Infernus Squad (80 Points)
    • 1x Infernus Sergeant
        • 1x Bolt pistol
          1x Close combat weapon
          1x Pyreblaster
    • 4x Infernus Marine
        • 4x Bolt pistol
          4x Close combat weapon
          4x Pyreblaster

Land Raider Redeemer (260 Points)
    • 1x Armoured tracks
      2x Flamestorm cannon
      1x Hunter-killer missile
      1x Multi-melta
      1x Storm bolter
      1x Twin assault cannon

Ravenwing Darkshroud (115 Points)
    • 1x Assault cannon
      1x Close combat weapon

Ravenwing Darkshroud (115 Points)
    • 1x Assault cannon
      1x Close combat weapon

Redemptor Dreadnought (210 Points)
    • 1x Heavy flamer
      1x Icarus rocket pod
      1x Macro plasma incinerator
      1x Redemptor fist
      1x Twin storm bolter

Redemptor Dreadnought (210 Points)
    • 1x Heavy flamer
      1x Icarus rocket pod
      1x Macro plasma incinerator
      1x Redemptor fist
      1x Twin storm bolter

Vindicator (190 Points)
    • 1x Armoured tracks
      1x Demolisher cannon
      1x Hunter-killer missile
      1x Storm bolter

Vindicator (190 Points)
    • 1x Armoured tracks
      1x Demolisher cannon
      1x Hunter-killer missile
      1x Storm bolter

Exported with App Version: v1.11.1 (34), Data Version: v352
 

 

Not sure if the Darkshroud or a 3-man Ravenwing Black Knights with attached Ravenwing Command Squad, throwing an Enhancement in somewhere.

 

Darkshrouds are two units, that give a nice Stealth and Cover bonus to a decent sized area.  Not too big of a points drop if I use them for scoring.

 

Black Knights are great for killing my opponent.  Nice little damage boost that can add a lot of Damage in Firestorm.  A nice surprise bit of damage with Crucible of Battle on the plasma followed by anti-Monster, -Vehicle 4+ melee weapons.

 

 

The rest of the list operates by pushing the Land Raider up the middle, two Vindicators in support.  While the Infernus Marines in Impulsors move up the Flanks supported by the Redemptors.   

 

The previous version I had a combination of Vulkan and Lt attached to Company Veterans and Adrax and Bladeguard Ancient attached to Bladeguard in the Land Raider.  They didn’t do too bad and was never disappointed.

 

 Likewise I was never disappointed with my Infernus Marines in Impulsors, they always did something in a game.  For instance in a game again DeathWatch my opponent commited about 750 pts into a flank, and killed the Impulsor and Infernus squad, after taking about 100pts of casualties in return.  The trade off put him way out of position that he couldn’t recover from.  
 

My previous version had Plasma Inceptors which kinda did something and kinda didn’t.  They were a great potential threat, but really were kinda lackluster in actually doing something.  With their increased points cost I am cutting them.  My Redemptor would usually hang on my back objective and use his Macro Plasma to pick off targets.  Usually between the two units I really didn’t need either.  I am thinking that adding a second Redemptor they could tag along with the Infernus and Impulsors and add more support wherever needed.

 

 

Thoughts?  Comment?  Darkshrouds or Black Knights?

 

 

Thanks!

 

[Tacitus]

Have you tried getting Captains into those Infernus Squads?  0CP Repeat Immolation Protocols? 

 

Or:  Bumping both up to 10, adding a captain to each, putting them in Redeemers as well.  3 Redeemers, -2 Impulsors maybe -2 Vindicators or something else - get a Darkshroud for each Redeemer on the trip up, disembark the Infernus Squads, pop the freebie normally-2CP Strat (its a battle tactic) and Flame On like you're in the Fantastic Four.  ~35 shots with DevWounds from the strat.  Do it twice and its ~70 shots on each flank, plus the Redeemers.  I get not wanting to trade the Aggressors for the Infernus squd in the middle though - you want the defense of T6.  Which gets better if you can get a Darkshroud for each Redeemer and "crew". 

[CCE1981]

Those Vindicators are a major source of anti-everything, and act as HUGE stumbling blocks to anything that tries to kill them.  I have had huge success with them gumming up and slowing down my opponent.  A giant gun you can’t ignore, hard to kill, and packs a surprise if you try to melee it to death and don’t succeed.

 

Also Impulsor and Captain even out.  The Redeemers are much more than the Vindicators and the extra 10 Infernus more on top of that.  Fishing for 6s just doesn’t cut it, even with the. Aggressors in the middle with re-roll wounds.  All that and I am loosing all anti-tank punch that the army would have.  In your suggestion I would struggle against any vehicle.

Edited March 11 by CCE1981

[Tacitus]

13 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

Those Vindicators are a major source of anti-everything, and act as HUGE stumbling blocks to anything that tries to kill them.  I have had huge success with them gumming up and slowing down my opponent.  A giant gun you can’t ignore, hard to kill, and packs a surprise if you try to melee it to death and don’t succeed.

 

Also Impulsor and Captain even out.  The Redeemers are much more than the Vindicators and the extra 10 Infernus more on top of that.  Fishing for 6s just doesn’t cut it, even with the. Aggressors in the middle with re-roll wounds.  All that and I am loosing all anti-tank punch that the army would have.  In your suggestion I would struggle against any vehicle.

You would struggle against vehicle heavy, but one vehicle wouldn't be that bad.  You're already pretty much locked into plinking any vehicle that isn't in the center anyway with the Aggressor Fists and Vindicators being short ranged in the center. Also for further refinement, Instead of 3 Redeemers, you could go 2 basic, 1 Redeemer as you can't Freebie Strat even the first Redeemer, so it's gotta be one and done getting the strat on them. With a 4 Las shots Land Raider on each wing and a Redeemer in the center you won't see opponent vehicles standing off out of Vindicator Range shooting up your short ranged murderball.  At least not as much.  If you're going to go into The Det for the Flamers (I'm assuming this from the two units of Infernus Squads?) Why not lean into it?  Instead of the Infernusators you could be sticking a 5 Man Terminator unit out there on the edge.  They can shoot outside 12, still get about the same number of shots inside 12 (especially with a Frag Cyclone) to pick up the Det Bonus and they'll pickup the Stealth from the Darkshrouds plus you'll have Fists and Kraks out there on the edges for the vehicles. 

[CCE1981]

I am leaning heavily into the detachment.  I am just not leaning heavily into a single stratagem.  Advance and shoot as well as +1 strength to weapons.

 

In your suggestion I still have an issues with points Vindicators are 190 vs Land Raider at 240, with 5-Infernus + Impulsors at 160 vs 5-terminators at 180.  I am at a 70 pt deficit per flank.

 

My 2x Vindicators don’t have a range issue.  9” move + d6 advance + 24” range is 33”+d6” threat range.

 

Likewise those 5-man infernus squads inside of Impulsors have a 24”+d6” threat range, more than adequate.  Plus push towards objectives for points, plus act as sacrifices to slow my opponent, their versatility is the important part.  I have never been disappointed with them, my opponent generally needs roughly 400 points to counter them between the light vehicle and the squad inside.

 

Your changes drastically change the list I have to the point where it would be completely different, and in a way I am not sure that I like.  Your suggestions do have me questioning Aggressors, t6 is not really anything that helps them live that much.  I’ve picked up an entire 6-man Gravis squads in its entirety too many times to rely on just t6, including three whole squads in one turn for four games.  The one stratagem and twin-linked power fists are the only real reason to take them over Terminators.  That Terminator invulnerable save increases their survival by a lot.

[Tacitus]

Yeah I realize they wouldn't be direct swaps.  I'm just not sure about taking a Det that doesn't have everything usable, and I don't think Flamers are something you can half-way.  I feel like if you're going to do them do them a lot.  Especially since that Strat is 2CP and you're pretty much stuck with at most 15 a game plus any freebies.  Its one of the reasons I keep going back to the Inner Circle Det with Vanguard Vets which are REALLY well and unexpectedly supported by that Det.  I wish upsized MeleeNators had been released by now.

 

Next Question about the Detachment:  Who's advancing and shooting?  You probably don't want to advance the Transports so you can still get out.  And you probably don't want to advance the Darkshrouds which are already faster and want to stay behind/on the far side of the Land Raider - that leaves you with the Dreads and maybe the Vindicators which are slower than the Land Raider(s) and may need to Advance to keep up. 

 

After that:  Why the Redeemer over the Crusader?  Redeemer sponsons are ~12 attacks - admittedly much better attacks while the Crusdader Sponsons are ~24 attacks and Twin Linked to take advantage of that +1S

 

Based on your potential change of plan with the Terminators instead of Aggressors:  Redeemer carries 14 - so easily 5(x2 size) Terminators, 1(x2) HQ, and potentially the (x2)Terminator Ancient.  Given the variety the Ancient in Terminator Armor has for weapons, it might be a good spot to land some Lightning Claws and the War-Tempered Artifice enhancement (S8 Lightnint Claws anyone?  S11 Thunder Hammer?)   The main Leader is 6 of one half dozen of the other - Better Charging with a Captain after hopping out of the Land Raider?  +1 to Wound on the Bolter fusilade with a Chaplain?  A bigger badder Bolter Fusilade from the Libby's SH1?   S5 and +1 to Wound is probably the most tempting.  If they were full sized squad of 10 with 2 Heavies I'd swap to the Libby, 60 shots taking advantage of +1S is quite the YeeHaw.  You don't have a Tacticus character to be given Champion of Humanity

[CCE1981]

Everything is Advancing and shooting.  Firestorm Detachment gives ALL weapons [Assault] as well as +1 Str to targets within 12”.

Additionally you can disembark from Impulsors if they Advanced, it’s their special rule, you just can’t charge afterwards.  Also, they have Grenades, so the Impulsor can Advance, the Infernus disembark, Grenade Strat, then Flame on.  That is IF you I thought I needed to disembark from them. Generally you don’t need to since they have [Firing Deck 6].

 

Dreads would be Advancing for sure and serve as a counter charge unit.  With some pretty nasty guns and melee.  
 

Darkshrouds may or may not need to Advance, but I am not taking them for Firepower, I am taking them for their Aura AND to grab secondaries, being able to Advance and shoot means they are eligible to shoot and since I don’t care about their Firepower they provide a HUGE benefit.

 

Terminators can be interesting, just that the Ancient can only go with the Captain.  Chaplain doesn’t give +1 to wound in shooting, only melee.  If going Terminators I thing the 10 pt upgrade would be worth it to make them Deathwing Terminators to give them semi-Champions of Humanity.   My list prior to the points change was Adrax and a 6-man Bladeguard squad with a Bladeguard Ancient, 5 pts shy of Lt at the time, with Champion of Humanity, plus Vulkan, a Lieutenant with Forged in Battle attached to Company Heroes all in the Redeemer.  Vulkans group really didn’t add meaning to the list, never could get Vulkan to the right position to give meaningful re-roll to wounds.  
 

Redeemer vs Crusader is for Overwatch and previously having 14 models jumping out of it.

 

[CCE1981]

Hehehe, silly Idea, Azrael, 10 Assault Intercessors, and a Lieutenant.  Eat 36 Sustained Hits, Lethal Hits, re-roll to hit (Oath, re-roll to wound (squad ability) attacks, then you uave the Sergeant, Lieutenant, and Azraels attacks!

 

oh, and give the LT Champion of Humanity!

 

Better would probably be downgrade the Redemptors to Brutalis.  The Azrael and Lt with Champion of Humanity leading a 10-man Hellblaster unit.  20x Sustained Hits 1, Lethal Hits, Overcharged, str 9 Plasma with +1 to wound (Crucible of Battle), +1 to hit(Onslaught of Fire) Plasma will hurt.  Plus be a pain to deal with in the center of the board.  Melee would be their downfall however.

Edited March 12 by CCE1981

[Tacitus]

Yeah your center unit(s) should probably be some sort of mutli-purpose/role units.  Shootinators with guns and fists, Aggressors with guns and fists,  The dreads (though you can't transport them unless you switch to Hovering Stormravens (which aren't Deathwing like the Land Raiders.). 

14 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

Everything is Advancing and shooting.  

 

Except the Land Raider right?  Can't advance and disembark there - which causes issues for charging after disembarking too. 

 

I did give it a try:

 

Spoiler

Cce1981 (1990 Points)

Space Marines
Dark Angels
Firestorm Assault Force
Strike Force (2000 Points)

CHARACTERS

Ancient in Terminator Armour (95 Points)
    • 1x Terminator Storm Shield
      1x Thunder hammer
    • Enhancements: Forged In Battle

Captain in Terminator Armour (120 Points)
    • Warlord
    • 1x Relic weapon
      1x Storm bolter
    • Enhancements: War-tempered Artifice

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS

Impulsor (80 Points)
    • 1x Armoured hull
      2x Storm bolter

Impulsor (80 Points)
    • 1x Armoured hull
      2x Storm bolter

OTHER DATASHEETS

Ballistus Dreadnought (140 Points)
    • 1x Armoured feet
      1x Ballistus lascannon
      1x Ballistus missile launcher
      1x Twin storm bolter

Ballistus Dreadnought (140 Points)
    • 1x Armoured feet
      1x Ballistus lascannon
      1x Ballistus missile launcher
      1x Twin storm bolter

Deathwing Knights (235 Points)
    • 1x Knight Master
        • 1x Great weapon of the Unforgiven
    • 4x Deathwing Knight
        • 4x Mace of absolution

Deathwing Terminator Squad (190 Points)
    • 1x Deathwing Sergeant
        • 1x Power weapon
          1x Storm bolter
    • 4x Deathwing Terminator
        • 2x Chainfist
          1x Cyclone missile launcher
          2x Power fist
          3x Storm bolter
          1x Storm bolter

Infernus Squad (80 Points)
    • 1x Infernus Sergeant
        • 1x Bolt pistol
          1x Close combat weapon
          1x Pyreblaster
    • 4x Infernus Marine
        • 4x Bolt pistol
          4x Close combat weapon
          4x Pyreblaster

Infernus Squad (80 Points)
    • 1x Infernus Sergeant
        • 1x Bolt pistol
          1x Close combat weapon
          1x Pyreblaster
    • 4x Infernus Marine
        • 4x Bolt pistol
          4x Close combat weapon
          4x Pyreblaster

Land Raider Redeemer (260 Points)
    • 1x Armoured tracks
      2x Flamestorm cannon
      1x Twin assault cannon

Ravenwing Darkshroud (115 Points)
    • 1x Close combat weapon
      1x Heavy bolter

Vindicator (190 Points)
    • 1x Armoured tracks
      1x Demolisher cannon

Vindicator (190 Points)
    • 1x Armoured tracks
      1x Demolisher cannon

Exported with App Version: v1.11.1 (34), Data Version: v352

 

Swapped the Dreads to Ballistus - though at least one (Probably both with a Crusader as Redeemer is most expensive variant) could probably go Brutalis if you drop the enhancement on the Ancient that was really just a placeholder for leftover points.   You've still got the two Impulsors of Flamers, the two Vindicators, you've got 7 Terminators in the Land Raider Redeemer.  The 5 Knights can either Deepstrike Center to Anvil up the objective (especially if you put the Homer there), or anywhere on the board in an emergency.  I kept the Captain with a Relic Weapon (sword) which becomes a Power Fist with an extra attack - you could go for the S11 Powerfist if you want, OR put the enhancement on the now S11 Thunderhammer on the Ancient.   If Forged In Battle worked on the wound roll, I'd put it on the Captain, and let the Ancient use the 6 to wound on the Dev Wounds Hammer.   Still a once per turn, twice per round Natural 6 on a 4++ isn't something to sneeze at. 

 

The Ballistus Dreads don't really NEED the +1S but the ASSAULT Lascannons and Missle Launchers are pretty juicy.  The Brutalis Dread really wants both especially with Melta Nipples.  I'm tempted to stay with the Ballistus so you have some Lascannon on the board but its close enough to even on Assault S10 Melta trying to get inside 9, let alone inside 12 - the hard part is they want to fight, and I'm not seeing advance and charge around here.

[CCE1981]

I am not concerned with not Advancing units in turns I plan on charging, this isn’t 5th edition I can pre-measure.  Even then I was pretty good at seeing whether I could charge or not.  The extra speed adds up being able to advance a couple of turns and still shoot while getting in position is astronomically huge.  
 

With what you gave me, I would drop the Knights, too weak and don’t add enough and replace the Ballistus with Gladiator Lancers or Valiants.  Due to the low toughness probably Lancers, a far better unit at killing the intended target for only 20 more points each, 10 for the Valiant.  
 

You don’t need to always use everything all the time.  In my experience you end up shoehorning things in that you are trying to make work.  The Ballistus Dreads will have targets turn 1, and if something deepstrikes them in back.  Their extra range will rarely come into play.  On the current tables Ranges above 30-36” is a waste without indirect fire.  Plus with all the units I have on the field getting in the way it makes their range much less impactful.  
 

I played Ultramarines Supplement during 8-9th period when the Ironhands first came out with their ‘unkillable Leviathan.  Played 8 or so games, and won every one of them.  Even against the list with 16 Lascannons on the board, plus the Leviathan.  At the end of that game he congratulated me on killing 12 Lascannons turn 1, and asked why I killed the Leviathan last, he was confused on the second part.  I told him, because I found out long ago don’t double up on the tank, kill the easy to kill high damage stuff first.  The tank can’t fight everything.  

[Malakithe]

Repulsor's have good potential too as their ability fits with all the transport tricks that Firestorm can do.

[Tacitus]

6 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Repulsor's have good potential too as their ability fits with all the transport tricks that Firestorm can do.

While the whole add 3" to your charge if you want to complete it now isn't a bad trick, Repulsors don't have the Transport Capacity.  Though if it fails, you're in even bigger trouble - anything that can punch 7 Terminators to death can probably punch a Repulsor to death.  Plus he's said he wants the Redeemer to be able to Overwatch the Flamestorm Canons.  While the Repulsor can Overwatch ~35-36 shots, and the Crusader can do 36 they're not 12ish Torrent Autohits plus 12ish that roll to hit and that's what he's looking for.

[CCE1981]

I have wiped out 3-man Deathroud Terminators with the Redeemer.  Most of the damage came from the Flamestorms and the final plunk was from the twin assault cannon Devastating wound.  

[Tacitus]

18 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

I have wiped out 3-man Deathroud Terminators with the Redeemer.  Most of the damage came from the Flamestorms and the final plunk was from the twin assault cannon Devastating wound.  

No, I got it.  The Autohit in Overwatch is a good combo and skews the math to the Redeemer in Overwatch scenarios.  36 shots hitting on 6's (so 6 hits) is less than 12 shots that auto-hit.