Karak Norn Clansman Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) Please move if posted in the wrong subforum. This thread may primarily be meant for those who, like me, remain skeptical about all the new narrative developments from the Indomitus Crusade forward. But ultimately it is an open invitation for all enjoyers of Warhammer 40'000 background to reflect and brainstorm and add their own suggestions. New background developments for Warhammer 40'000 from circa 2017 onward has seen narrative taking precedence over static setting. As someone endlessly intrigued by the richness of the decrepit and depraved themes of the static setting, this would seem a doubtful decision, casting aside the obvious commercial allure for Games Workshop of selling more miniatures. So far, it has been a mixed bag. I will first try to point out some advantages and disadvantages to the new background developments, with an eye to setting over narrative. The Laudable What some have described as the Indomitus Heresy is not bereft of quality. For instance, bringing Primarch Roboute Guilliman back has served up a good number of memorable moments, most of them revolving around a contrast play between the sclerotic, fanatical and demented Imperium of the 42nd millennium, with the optimistic and enterprising early Imperium during the human renaissance that was the brutal but brilliant Great Crusade. Which is a good call. Guilliman's headbutting with the fervently religious mankind of the latter Age of Imperium is well known, but a more subtle strain has also been carried forth by various authors, namely the contrast between the humourless, stern, pious and rigorously hierarchical Imperium of 40k with the more jovial, easygoing and seemingly approachable Imperium of 40k. This perfectly mirrors the souring of the fundamental mood of the Roman empire from classical antiquity through the crisis of the third century and the travails of late antiquity and the middle ages. Special mention in this regard goes to a little scene where Guilliman in full armour is doing paperwork, and a plastic sheet falls down on the floor. Since his powered glove is not built to pick up tiny objects, Guilliman quips that he has been defeated by his greatest enemy, to which a nearby Marine asks if his lord made a joke. The Primarch's sarcastic reply is affirmative, for in the legendary age from which he hails he did not spend all time at heroics and grand works, but occasionally he would enjoy himself with making a simple joke. Likewise, Guilliman's sweeping reforms continues to play heavily on the Roman themes of organization for resilience that has long been a hallmark of the setting's background. And seeing the Primarch's handling of the High Lords of Terra and the flogging of the Paternoval Envoy of the Navigators was undeniably sweet. And Abaddon now comes across as a competent threat. More can be said about other positive developments, including good new artworks, but hopefully you get the point: Some new background do play up the setting. To say nothing of the glorious new background for Necromunda and Leagues of Votann, but that is outside of the narrative scope of this discussion. The Questionable On the negative side, the list grows: Shoehorning so much from Horus Heresy into 40k. Doing away completely with remote mythical figures of the past by first showing them in Horus Heresy, and then bringing back Primarchs in M42. Deus ex machina introduction of improved Marines, without flaws or echoes of the Cursed Founding to better ground them in the decrepit themes of the setting. There is a lot that pulls against the grain of the setting, and runs counter to its overarching themes, but let us cut the minus list short here. At the end of the day, such large new background developments will be up to personal interpretation. Skeptics like myself are free to view it as an interesting alternative dimension but not the real deal of the static setting, and those who enjoy it are free to embrace it. However, it would seem to me that on balance, the current background developments are still salvagable for the sake of maintaining the vision of 40k without breaking its overarching themes. Proposed Tweaks Without getting bogged down in detail and characters, I would like to present the following list on how to adjust the new background developments to play up the themes of the setting instead of running against it. This will be done with an eye to 'show over tell' in the miniature department, and an eye to 'tell' in the background department. The aim is to make small adjustments, not sweeping overhauls, to try and end up in a recognizably grimdark spot. Pure improvement aside, I personally like Cawl because mad geniuses slaving away in laboratories (like the Emperor and His genetors did) is something I like to see in fiction. So I'm willing to overlook GW writing Cawl's handiwork as too perfect for the decrepit themes of the setting. It is even possible to take an angle that the Primaris Marines, for all their brilliance and power, is in the final analysis a strategic malinvestment: That the Imperium for instance could have been better served by investing many of the vast resources bound up in Primaris expansion in increasing output of lethal special weaponry or heavy support for their hordes of organized infantry, or some suchlike take. With one obvious parallell being the overengineered Tiger tank contra cost effective Stug and Hetzer investments made by Germany toward the later stages of the second world war in real history (with Soviet decisions in 1941 to switch tank production to the most easily mass produced but sufficiently powerful variant, the T34, and then making the original design even cruder, chiming in as well). Now, if a finger could have been snapped and GW had put some focus with miniature releases on showcasing the depths of desperation which the Imperium plunges with their new narrative drive, I would have liked to see roughly this lineup, with more that could be added, but you get the idea: - Primaris Marines. Improved Astartes, bigger and stronger and made to win a war of attrition against mutated and more experienced Chaos Space Marines. The Imperium is after all fixated upon their Archenemy, so this is fine. Let the counterproductive Imperial obsession with Chaos play itself out. And it could be a malinvestment of resources and a logistical headache when Firstborn Astartes sufficed just fine and ate a smaller resource pie. - Failed Primaris experiments herded into battle. Corvus Corax style. - Poorly equipped militia units, including barefoot paramilitaries. Maybe technicals of armed civilian vehicles pressed into Loyalist service. Necromunda kits doing double duty? - Zealot hordes. Flagellants and doomsayers and fanatics throwing themselves unto martyrdom. Complete with descriptions of pogroms and schismatic violence peaking in the dark days of the present. - Imperial Guard with krak lances, budget sentinels, flak shield substitutes for carapace armour for some grenadier units, and human bombs as per Rogue Trader. Or somesuch similar depiction of callous and desperate and dysfunctional budget measures being rolled out in response to a slide into doomsday; it need not necessarily be these suggestions, it could be something else entirely. Think cheap and shoddy wargear to fill gaps and check boxes on paper. - Blocking detachments of an NKVD-equivalent in space. Give the Commissars some company. And give the Tau Gue'vesa human auxiliaries to display rats abandoning a sinking ship, or put differently desperate souls clinging to the only alternative offered to the crushing tyranny of the Imperium. Chaos Cultists and Genestealer Cults are already well represented with units and miniatures. Other parts that would play up the visual depravity are already long since covered to great effect by the Adepta Sororitas and the Ecclesiarchy's bonkers penitence engines and arco-flagellants. But I guess an autodafé on tracks could help play up the ongoing madness. With something in the spirit of the above proposals, I believe that the new background developments could be made to better fit the overarching themes of the 40k setting. Again, the aim is for tweaks, rather than sweeping overhauls, and much of it is show over tell supported by miniature releases. How would you have received the new background developments if the above proposals were baked into it? Please share your thoughts and your own proposals. Cheers Imperium Nihilus artwork by Phil Moss Edited March 16 by Karak Norn Clansman Low Gothic not being my mother's tongue. Brother Christopher and librisrouge 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382534-tweaks-to-bring-new-background-developments-better-in-line-with-40k-setting-themes/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverythingIsGreat Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 A couple of points having to do with the lore. On 3/16/2024 at 9:38 AM, Karak Norn Clansman said: It is even possible to take an angle that the Primaris Marines, for all their brilliance and power, is in the final analysis a strategic malinvestment: That the Imperium for instance could have been better served by investing many of the vast resources bound up in Primaris expansion in increasing output of lethal special weaponry or heavy support for their hordes of organized infantry, or some suchlike take Per the lore, the Primaris project was secret. We don't really know how the R&D work was financed, but this AFAIK was not presented as an Imperium investment. Also, Cawl as an Archmagos had considerable resources of his own. including influence and favors owed. And it took a long time, like 1000 monkeys with typewriters will in 1000 years write Shakespearian plays etc. to use a bad metaphor. It seems the succesful project's "capital" cost to the Imperium was zero. There are of course the variable but predictable costs of producing more Primaris units and their associated support, but it is doubtful that in the setting of M42 (13th Black Crisade onwards) the Imperium could get more military bang-per-Throne-spent elsewhere. Gift horse+mouth=don't look. On 3/16/2024 at 9:38 AM, Karak Norn Clansman said: Let the counterproductive Imperial obsession with Chaos play itself out. Can't really understand this statement. I believe the lore makes it clear that Chaos is the biggest existential threat to the Imperium. I wouldn't call the effort to hold Chaos at bay an "obsession". It is not like the Inperium can just walk away from Chaos if it wanted to. As the Horus Heresy shows, this attitude will be taken advantage of by the enemy. There is an intriguing thread in the Indomitus lore involving the HH-era's Imperium Secundus. Guilliman is trying to suppress (for obvious reasons) any real info about it, but apparently there is intact proof of its existence and Guilliman's role, which Chaos is trying to bring to light. Will be interesting to see how this may or may not play out. Karak Norn Clansman and librisrouge 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382534-tweaks-to-bring-new-background-developments-better-in-line-with-40k-setting-themes/#findComment-6029137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karak Norn Clansman Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 (edited) On 3/19/2024 at 4:23 PM, EverythingIsGreat said: Per the lore, the Primaris project was secret. We don't really know how the R&D work was financed, but this AFAIK was not presented as an Imperium investment. Also, Cawl as an Archmagos had considerable resources of his own. including influence and favors owed. And it took a long time, like 1000 monkeys with typewriters will in 1000 years write Shakespearian plays etc. to use a bad metaphor. It seems the succesful project's "capital" cost to the Imperium was zero. There are of course the variable but predictable costs of producing more Primaris units and their associated support, but it is doubtful that in the setting of M42 (13th Black Crisade onwards) the Imperium could get more military bang-per-Throne-spent elsewhere. Gift horse+mouth=don't look. Interesting point. As for the long-running Primaris project, I am sure that a lot of Imperial resources was funnelled into it by masked backdoor channels pulled by Archmagos Cawl. I am not saying that the resources spent on research and devlopment were wasted, on the contrary this is the big bold exception to the rule of the Imperium being shoddy at R&D. So much so that it runs contrary to the grain of the setting. What I am saying is that the mass-production of Primaris Marines and introduction of new weapons requiring new or retooled production lines and the usual logistical headache could well be construed as a possible malinvestment compared to putting those resources to use on non-Astartes efforts. Portraying the Primaris drive in this light of doubt could give it some fun spin. Akin to question marks raised over Tiger tanks and similar heavy armour in historical discussions about the second world war. Would not those resources have been better used in medium tanks or turretless cheap tank destroyers? Of course, it could also be the case that switching over to Primaris Marines is the best bang for your buck as you described, but raising doubts over the approach would introduce less of a deus ex machina impression, which did grate on a fair number of people. Quote Can't really understand this statement. I believe the lore makes it clear that Chaos is the biggest existential threat to the Imperium. I wouldn't call the effort to hold Chaos at bay an "obsession". It is not like the Inperium can just walk away from Chaos if it wanted to. As the Horus Heresy shows, this attitude will be taken advantage of by the enemy. There is an intriguing thread in the Indomitus lore involving the HH-era's Imperium Secundus. Guilliman is trying to suppress (for obvious reasons) any real info about it, but apparently there is intact proof of its existence and Guilliman's role, which Chaos is trying to bring to light. Will be interesting to see how this may or may not play out. This statement is what the Imperium after the Horus Heresy boils down to, in some crucial regards. The Inquisition and the tyrannical clampdowns that followed the ravages of the Heresy were not only a reasonable reaction to threat, but an overreaction feeding said threat. The better background of Warhammer 40'000 plays into this, by essentially having the Imperium feed Chaos relentlessly through its decrepitude and cruelty and paranoia and wanton slaughter on the home front. How many unnecessary instances of Exterminatus can't we recall from official background, ordered by overzealous Inquisitors? How many shady cults would have an easy time finding willing converts if not so many Imperial subjects lived in abject misery and demeaning oppression? And so on. The Imperium of Man after the Ascension of the Emperor is fundamentally more concerned with internal security than it is with outward projection of force. This is a point that is often missed among all the glorious warmachinery displayed in art and models and writings, but it is a core tenet of the Imperium after the Horus Heresy: It is obsessed with its Archenemy Chaos, and it is obsessed with stability and clamping down on internal disturbances to such a degree that it stifles human interstellar civilization. And it is very much counterproductive in the grand scheme of things. Which is great worldbuilding. The ironies of 40k makes it the gemstone that it is. The records of the Imperium Secundus thread is one I hope to see unravel further, and is one of those fun plot hooks GW has got going at the moment. Basically, this is all leads back to the historical references (drawing upon the most depraved aspects of human history) and what 40k is: The foundational satire at its core demands that the Imperium be not only cruel, but counterproductively cruel. And so it shall be. Also, the obsession with Chaos is borne out in the larger background: Chaos is not clearly the greatest threat, but rather the Xenos of Tyranids (and possibly even Necrons). But Imperial fixation on the Archenemy for historical reasons obscures this point. Edited March 20 by Karak Norn Clansman Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382534-tweaks-to-bring-new-background-developments-better-in-line-with-40k-setting-themes/#findComment-6029299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverythingIsGreat Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 In-universe and according to the lore as we know it now, regarding Chaos the Inquisition followed the only policy that could be inferred by the Emperor’s actions: total secrecy about anything related to Chaos, an edict that applies also to the vast majority of Imperial officials. In M42 the ignorance of Chaos by the general Imperial populace is on the level with the mandated ignorance of Chaos as perpetrated by the Emperor in M30. As a matter of fact, it is obvious from the lore that everything the Emperor did was ultimately related to suppressing Chaos’ influence in human affairs. There are GW’s marketing slogans about WH40K, and the official lore, which as it expands is liable to indicate inferences that are more realistic and complete (in-universe) than what slogans suggest. One such logical inference would be that the Great Crusade was a pretty violent and bloody affair with Xenocides, anti-Xenos expeditions and Compliance Wars. It was grimdark for alien and sentient races. Then we have the aptly named Age of Strife which came after the apocalyptic wars of the DAOT. They must have been rather grim as well. And of course one can assume that Humanity’s first expansion in the Galaxy wasn’t all love and kisses. So sure, GW has to put out there a catchy slogan that sells the game, even when it is not really representative of the full background the game is set on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382534-tweaks-to-bring-new-background-developments-better-in-line-with-40k-setting-themes/#findComment-6029791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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