Dr. Ruminahui's assorted conversions (previously renegade guard + defiler)

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I've been posting this in the chaos forums, but thought maybe I should share it here as well, as it may be something that those in the WIP forum might enjoy or even potentially helpful with their own projects.  Plus, it gives me a broader pool of answers for whatever design questions I might have.

 

What do you get when these 2 kits love each other very much?  A chaos defiler, hopefully.

 

Edited November 6 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I've wanted a chaos defiler for my chaos space marine army for a while, but I hate the official model - the legs are great, but the torso and head are just kind of goofy.  I've actually had this idea for a while (since the Lost and the Damned mini-codex from 3rd or 4th edition, which was long before I started my chaos army at the tail end of 7th ed) but didn't really put my ideas to the test until now.  Fortunately, I had an old leman russ model sitting around that never got built as part of my imperial guard army, so all I had to do was pick up the tervigon and other assorted hobby supplies like plasticard and the like.

 

Okay, some photos of my work so far.  As you can see, I'm keeping the internal core of the leman russ pretty standard, as my end goal is to make it look like a possessed leman russ rather than a defiler built to look like russ.

 

 

I wanted it to look as if a demon was bound into the engine compartment - hence the chaos star and the chains across it.  This is my second attempt at the star - on my first attempt, I got half way cutting it out and then, because my cutting surface was too soft, my knife slipped and cut it in half.  Lesson learned and I'm happy with the second attempt.

 

 

Here you can see that I am placing the weapons that would typically on the defiler's left "arm" underneath the hull - the legs I intend to use and how I intend to mount them should give plenty of clearance.  Here it is with the heavy flamer and the "eye mount" option for the front hull mount.

 

 

Here's a similar view but with the havoc launcher underneath and the reaper cannon on the front mount.  For the defiler right "arm" weapons, the lascannon and heavy bolter options will be on the russ sponsoons (in which case the eye option will be on the front mount) while the reaper will be on the front mount with eyes on the sponsoon mounts.  You can also see the turret and the start of my work adding eyes to it.

 

 

Finally, an under shot showing the box into which I will mount the final of the left "arm" options - the flail.  I intend to model it using thick metal wire and hopefully it will look similar to the tentacles on a venomcrawler - given their added weight and potential length, I added a second and bigger magnet - the other 2 options only use the front smaller magnet.

 

There are a few elements that are intentionally missing at this point (the front hatch, and the front plow) which I will be seeking advice about from you guys near the end of the project when we'll be able to best judge what looks best on the model as a whole.

 

And here with some more greenstuffing - this was originally a separate post.

 

 

First, I added smaller eyes and greenstuff to finish the eye cluster on the turret.

 

 

I was then thinking of adding eyes to this side of the turret and then thought "hey, I will always have at least one extra eye plate from the weapon mounts, so why don't I magnetize it instead so I can just mount one of those instead?"  Which is then exactly what I did - here with the front weapon mount eye cluster in place.

 

This also allows me to mount the havoc launcher of the turret instead of underslung, if I am so inclined:

 

 

 

Now for the weird part - I've mounted the tervigon's gestation sack on the back for some extra fleshy bit and to move the visual centre of mass backwards, as the Russ already has a fairly forward visual centre of mass which will become even worse when I add the defiler claws at the front.  Still need to do some greenstuff detailing, as the very back is pretty plain (as on the Tervigon model that would be mostly hidden next to the base).

 

 

Here's the other half, underneath the tank.  Really happy with my greenstuffing here.

 

 

Last, I worked on making a hole - I wanted to make it look like the front leg has torn its way out of the chasis, and I think I was reasonably successful in that regard.

 

 

Finally, here is the front leg just loosely put in place - I've got some conversion work to do to it before it will be affixed, as I'm working on making it look less tyranidy and more mechano-fleshy. 

Edited April 3 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Dr_Ruminahui]

And now for some leg work - sorry, some of the pictures are a bit blurry.

 

 

This is the right front leg, with the top picture showing it next to an unmodified tyranid claw and the bottom the greenstuff trim so far.  I'm likely going to detail the circles to look more mechanical and maybe add some greenstuff to bulk out the arm a bit - it looks a little weedy right now.

 

 

The model will also have a rear and a middle leg on each side, modelled to look similar to the rear legs on a venomcrawler.  The top shows the front of the shield, where unfortunately the trim I cut out ended up being too big for the shield, and in resizing it it ended up a bit lopsided.  Trying hard to avoid that on the next set of trim, but its challenging.

 

Middle picture shows how the shield and the legs are attached and the bottom how I have bent the plasticard (by repeatedly putting it into a pot of boiling water, pulling it out and bending it a bit, then back into the water) - the different thickness is the left one has trim and right doesn't.

 

The leg portions still needs some carving and greenstuffing to remove their tyranid elements, but I wanted to get the shields right before I did that.  We'll see if that was a mistake.

 

 

Here's a picture of what the tyranid pieces look like that I am working with - the left is what the assembled tyranid leg looks like, the middle is the piece I am actually working with, and the right is obviously is a more finished product with the shield.

 

 

Here's roughly how they will look on the defiler - the rear two will be closer together as I end for them to protrude more sideways (rather than front and back) than I was able to achieve in this photo.

 

 

Finally, here is the side of the defiler with the leg hole for the rear leg.  Didn't get as good of a bent armoured plate look as on the front leg hole, but I have 6 more opportunities for the other legs and its claws, so I'm hoping to get better as I go.

 

So far, these legs have been an enormous amount of work (and is still largely undone), but they are what will make the model a defiler so I think its important to get them right, as the look of the whole model will likely hinge on me getting them right.

 

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Now, there was about a 6 month break here, where I lost my hobby mojo.  One of the things that derailed me (other than general malaise) was the trouble I was having with getting the trim to fit properly to the shields on the legs I've been building.  Anyway, here is a reference picture:

 

 

Basically, the way they are built is that I have a thick piece of plasticard that I cut out using a template, then bend to the proper shape.  Then the trim is cut from a much thinner piece of plasticard, using the same template.  Problem is that, even though I have a template, they are cut by hand so are all a bit different - not normally a problem with chaos, which is pretty forgiving with minor differences, but makes it hard to get the trim to fit.

 

So, for the first one (the one on the right), I cut out the trim only to find that it was too big for the shield it was to go on.  Rather than throw out my work, I cut it down the middle, removed some material, then glued it in place - this left a bit of a gap in the top of the trim, which I've hidden with some battle damage.  So, even though I got it to work, it was way more effort than I had wanted and it left me kind of discouraged.

 

So, last week I picked the project back up and tried again, just trying to be more careful and not cutting out the internal details until I had the outside dimensions correct.  That didn't work, and the trim piece ended up too small and unusable.  So I got a brilliant idea to glue the thin plasticard to the leg shield with a glue stick (the kind for gluing paper) then trimming it down to fit one the glue was dry.  It then pealed off very easily, and after washing the dried glue off both pieces, I cut the internal details.  The one on the left was produced by that method, and it worked like a charm.

 

I then finished putting the holes in the side of the hull for the legs, and was able to do so in such a way that I only had to bend back one tiny part in order to fit the sponson (much to my own surprise - I was quite worried about the process warping the side to the extent that the sponson wouldn't fit anymore).  Anyway, here's a picture of the almost finished side plate - just need to decide whether to glue the side hatch on or put gribblies behind it, and maybe put a few spikes through the side.

 

 

And here it is with the legs glue tacked on:

 

 

Two options for the big claw - the above, where the crusher claw attaches directly to the end of the arm - or the below, where I leave a bit of the crusher arm on to make the arm on the model longer.

 

 

Away from the model, I prefer the first option but I think the second looks better on the actual model.

 

Also, seeing the whole thing together, I'm not sure I like the small claw - do you guys think I should put another armored leg there instead?

 

So, let me know your thoughts/opinions on the following:

 

   1.  Short or long arm for the crusher claws?

   2.  Spikes or tentacles on the side, or keep it smooth with a closed side hatch?

   3.  Small spike front leg (like the above) or another leg with an armored shield?

[Firedrake Cordova]

What a unique idea for a model  I suppose the challenge is trying to hide the provenance of the Tyranid parts?

 

I think mechanically, you'd need to go with the long arm for the claws, otherwise it wouldn't be able to use them on anything?

 

I'm guessing tentacles on the side, because they're kind of traditional with Chaos? 

 

I think leave the front leg as is, rather than adding a guard to it?

[Terminatorinhell]

I love weird things like this! 

 

The crusher claws maybe could be short, like stubby but powerful looking. Maybe a could tentacles creeping around on the model.

 

It would be kinda cool to see like a drum flail on the front or something 

[Wormwoods]

Good job making the nid legs look more biomechanical, this is fantastic. 

[ZeroWolf]

I'm loving this conversion!

 

As for your questions.

 

1) long, I think it adds to its unsettling nature.

 

2) I'm thinking tentacles

 

3) I'll concur with Firedrake and say leave front legs as is

[Brother Christopher]

Wow, that's an amazing idea and a very ambitious project. I think I'm a bit too tired to offer any constructive advice but I'll be keeping a close eye on this one.

 

Did you consider using bass guitar stings as wires/cables? I think this might help mask the more obviously biological look of the tyranid limbs.

[Grotsmasha]

I've been looking forward to seeing progress on this one

[TheArtilleryman]

This is awesome!

 

Do you think it would look cool with teeth and the big Tyranid tongue underneath the lascannon mount?

[PHS]

Really didn’t have a clue what I was going to see when I clicked on this topic!

 

I absolutely love it , pure chaos 

 

I’d add more creepy eyes peering out, weird mouths and tentacles like it’s crawled out of the old slaves to darkness books!

 

Edited April 5 by PHS
Added more

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks for everyone who replied to the thread and gave their comments and suggestions - its much appreciated.  Interestingly, on my informal pole in the chaos forums and my WIP thread, long crushing claw just edged out short with the same for shield versus spike leg (both 4-3) while tentacles were the run away favorite versus hatch (6-2).

 

@Firedrake Cordova - certainly removing some of the "'niddy-ness" from the tyranid parts is one of the challenges.  Another is balancing the Russ elements with the chaos elements - I definitely want to make it look corrupted, but I always want it to be visually apparent that this is a possessed Russ.  A third is that I want to make it visually apparent that it is a defiler, so I'm trying to incorporate design elements from that model as well.  We'll see how well I can pull all that off.

 

@Terminatorinhell - the drum flail is a neat idea, but not one that would work on this model - it would make it too front heavy, and add a large mechanical element that schews the balance I'm trying to get between biological and mechanical (I'm trying to make most of the additional elements largely biological).  It's going to have a biological flail option that will be mounted on the bottom front, but that's going to be one of the last things I build - hopefully it will scratch your flail itch.

 

@Brother Christopher - that's high praise coming from you, but I doubt this will be anywhere near as involved as the magic you do with plasticard.  I have thought about using guitar chord cabling, but won't be doing that until I have my leg positioning set, as I want them to droop appropriately.  Not only does it bring (as you noted) a nice mechanical element, but it also helps tie it in visually with other chaos models like the venomcrawler that have the same.

 

@TheArtilleryman - interesting idea about the mouth, though I don't think there is enough room below the lascannon mount - if I put one on the front it would be beside the mount where I currently have the open space where the driver's hatch/vision slit would go.  That said, even if a mouth doesn't to there, I have plans of other places I might put one.

 

@PHS - the thread is exactly what it says on the tin, so I'm not sure why the confusion on what it might be about.   Not sure if I want to make the model that gribbly - as noted, I want to keep it visually identifyable as a Russ and want it to fit in visually with the other chaos demonengines I have, such as the mauler/forge fiends, the venomcrawler and the hell drake, which all combine elements of fleshybits with large areas of ungribblied armor (making them different from the chaos marine models, whose armor tends to be more warped).  Anyway, we'll have to see if the end result matches your expectations or if we simply have different visions for the model.

 

 

I had thought to combine the tentacles with the side hatch (having it partially open with the tentacles coming out the gap) only to find that I have no idea where the hatches were (I seem to have lost them somewhere).  So instead, I glued on some plates from the chaos vehicle accessory sprue and will put tentacles elsewhere on the model, and I may well do the other side with no hatch and emerging tentacles.

 

 

As shown above, rather than make up my mind on the arm/leg questions (though I'm inclined to side with the majorities for both), I built the smoke stacks instead.

 

Here are some close ups:

 

 

The one on the very back is because I had a gap from how the gestation sacks joined together and decided to fill it this way.

 

Though you can't really see it, the outermost stacks on either side have little faces cut into them kind of like the mauler/forge fiend does - I'm thinking of building them up (again like the fiend does) with greenstuff to make them more visible.

[Firedrake Cordova]

The multitude of exhausts sticking out of the fleshy sack at odd angles seems particularly fitting

 

40 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Another is balancing the Russ elements with the chaos elements - I definitely want to make it look corrupted, but I always want it to be visually apparent that this is a possessed Russ

I'm struggling to find examples via Google, but I get the feeling the answer is "eyes and tentacles".  What first came to my head was Dave Soper's Nurgle Predator from 1990, but it turns out it doesn't quite look how I remember it:

Maybe there was another WD contributor that I'm thinking of (Christian Byrne? Jake Vlemmix?) ... maybe playing with the texture of the amour, so bits of it seem less metal and more flesh by making bits of it a little "saggy"?

[Brother Christopher]

3 hours ago, Firedrake Cordova said:

The multitude of exhausts sticking out of the fleshy sack at odd angles seems particularly fitting

 

I agree, it is suitably chaosy. I also like the variety of the designs of the engine stacks and heat shields. The faces are pretty good - I thought that they looked familiar at first glance, even before reading the actual post. I'm sure that once you paint them, they'll be even better defined (you could go with a glowy demonic heat effect). However, if you feel like there's room for improvement, go for it.

 

Remember that you can also 'copy' detail from other kits by using green stuff press moulds. I'm not familiar with moderny Chaos kits but I'm sure you have plenty of source material.

[Pearson73]

Oh wow, this is going to look fantastic! An ambitious project, but I think it's off to a solid start, particularly with the de-nidification of the limbs.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Sorry for the delay on updating, but I've been plugging away on it steadily without really anything significant enough to post until this weekend, when a bunch of things all seemed to come together.

 

@Firedrake Cordova & @Brother Christopher, glad you like the oddly protruding smoke stacks - its easier to do them that way than trying to get them all to line up, which is great since it best matches the image I have for the model as well.  In some ways, chaos models are a lot more forgiving to convert than other factions (though orks are close) in that some imperfections not only don't matter so much but are to be expected.  And yeah, I intend to do some glow effect, though its probably going to be pretty subtle like I did on my maulerfiend

 

Firedrake, that's a great chaos conversion, but not quite what I'm going for - while I will be having plenty of fleshy bits, I want them to be visually distinct from the mechanical ones.

 

Borther Christopher, thanks for the suggestion with green stuff molds - I tried them without much success a great number of years ago, but would likley have a better go with it now.  Don't have anything in mind that I would use them for, but its good to have them on my radar to keep my eyes (and mind) open for ideas that might work with that technique.

 

@Pearson73 glad you like it.  You get to seem them today at what's probably full denidification - let me know if you think more is needed.

 

The bulk of the work was in greenstuffing the claw - definitely a learning process, as I haven't really done much of the sort and had the problem of squashing the work I had just done, as well as having the greenstuff loose its stickness before I got it in place making me have to mix more.  The cat certainly didn't help in that regard, wanting me to take breaks to feed or play with her while I was in the midst of sculpting.

 

Anyway, here is the finished claw attached to the model.

 

 

I took the advice from my poll to do the extended version and took the advantage to put in the the wheeled "hinge" between the two pieces, which added a technological element with some cabling as well on the top.  Other than that, it was all trim and filing in of the more tyranid details - hopefully it will look a bit neater when painted.

 

I also went by the poll and replaced the spike front leg with a shielded one - having the claw in place simply confirmed the spike was just too small and made the whole model look too front heavy,  This allowed me to make a different front shield, which I decided to do in a chaos star - I think I'll put a slanneshi symbol on the other side when I get to it.  I'm really happy with how that turned out.  Here is it and a picture of the front, showing that there is enough clearance for the underslung flamer option.  You can also see the wires that I have going through the model to which I have pinned the legs - those will be cut done and have the left legs glued to them as well when I finish that side of the model.

 

 

And here it is from the side with all the right legs in place.  As you will also see, I decided to build a mouth out of the flat portion of the flesh sack on the back, and am really happy how that turned out.  You can also see the greenstuff I did to build up the face on the smokestack some, as well as the cabling I added to the back leg to meld the organic and mechancal elements some.

 

 

The one thing I'm not as happy with is that I tried greenstuffing the tongue to make it look less like just a bit of wire.

 

 

So, any suggestions on what to to with the tongue?

[Firedrake Cordova]

That's some great progress - I like the "ribbing" you've put around the edges of the chitin plates to make it look less Tyranid

 

On the tongue ... what about making it more like a chameleon's tongue, with a sticky pad on the end? 

[TheArtilleryman]

I was thinking a forked tongue would be good

[PHS]

It just gets better and better

Love the cocktail stick teeth, really nasty looking

For the tongue maybe shorten it and narrow it to a point

[TheArtilleryman]

Defo agree the tongue is too long. Half it and make a fork.

[Pearson73]

The hinge on the arm is a nice touch, and keeps it suitably mechanical. I think either some texture or a fork would make the tongue read more like a tongue.

[Stef Coudou]

Crazy. 
I do love it !

 

@Dr_Ruminahui : "So, any suggestions on what to to with the tongue?"

 

Don't put it in your nose

 

Edited May 9 by Stef Coudou

[Dr_Ruminahui]

@Firedrake Cordova - glad you like my deniddifying!  @PHS, thanks for the compliments on the teeth - I am really happy how they turned out.  @Pearson73, that's exactly what I was going for with the hinge (plus, it ties it into the venomcrawler, that has similar hinges) so I'm glad to hear it worked.  @Stef Coudou, thansk!  And is that my nose spefically, or everyone's nose?  Either way, good advice to follow! 

 

Thanks also to @TheArtilleryman, Firedrake, PHS for their non-nose related tongue advice - I'll talk about your suggestions a bit below.

 

I think where I got into trouble with the tongue is:

   a) its hard to make long, smooth shapes with greenstuff, so it when I applied some to make it look more natural, it just ended up warty; and

  b) I tried to make it both a tongue and tentacle, but didn't give it any defining features to make it look like either.

 

@Bonehead in the heretic guard forum gave me some good suggestions about the tongue in that it needs to be wider, which got me thinking about the best way to get that effect - I decided on using a plastic twist tie from electronics, which should be about the right breadth (broadness?).  I went to the bag in the kitchen drawer where my wife keeps such things and found a couple of promissing candidates - I may even glue them together if I want it to be thicker.  It won't be "wide" coming out of the mouth, though, as I'll need to orient the "width" going up and down instead to fit through the teeth.  Still, I think it might well work.

 

I have some other ideas in my head that might work - one of them if going for a more technological look and using guitar string, though I'm not sure if it will be flexible enough.  Anyway, I'll play around with it in the future.  I do think I want to keep it long, despite the suggestions otherwise - I want to keep the tentacle look, like its might get used to grab things and feed them into the mouth, as there really isn't anyway for the teeth to bite anything otherwise.

 

I'm also not sure how to convincingly give it a forked end, either, not without making it extremely fragile.  On the other hand, I do have a way to give the end teeth of its own (thanks to a spare part from the demon prince kit) so that might happen.

 

While I'm working that over in my head, I've started on the other side and I'm eager to get it to the stage where it is a free-standing model.

 

Here is the poor tortured side skirt with all the mangling done to it to allow the limbs to protrude.

 

 

Here it is on the model (not glued yet, that will happen after I attach the legs), with the sponson, side hatch and escaping tentacle (an extra I didn't use from the Chaos Possesseds kit).  So, for those who voted in favour of side tentacles, here you go! Unlike on the other side, with all the bending I couldn't get the sponson on quite straight, but luckily given the nature of the model that doesn't really matter. 

 

 

Next step is finishing the legs and claw arm - here are the 3 legs with their shields cut - next up is heating the shields to curve them slightly, and cutting and gluing on the trim.

 

[Firedrake Cordova]

Looks great