HWS how do they work for you?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I always hear/see people saying that HWSes are no good because they’re too squishy and will die immediately.

 

personally that hasn’t been my experience.

 

in almost every game I’ve played with them my opponent completely ignores them. Only game that didn’t happen was against knights and that’s because my lascannon squad and hvy lascannons were probably my biggest threats to him on the board after the baneblade.

 

I typically take 1 mortar squad, 1 autocannon squad, and 1 lascannon squad.

 

so, what has your actual game experiences with non-mortar HWSes?

[TheArtilleryman]

I feel like taking mortars is a waste of points. We don’t need any more AP 0 shooting; what we need is as many high strength high AP shots as possible so that when we finally do hit something, it actually makes a hole in it.

 

For this reason I don’t like mortars and have an autocannon squad and a lascannon squad. I have one more squad to build which I will do as either lascannons or autocannons, probably. Or maybe heavy bolters; haven’t decided yet. As regards which weapons to choose, I just prefer the models for the heavier guns and don’t care what people say about mortars really :)

 

My heavy weapon squads haven’t had any games yet this edition but what I have found is that the stars of the show are the basic infantry. I won a game against marines recently because I was able to use the reinforcements stratagem to just keep spamming infantry onto objectives. If it had been about annihilation I would have lost the game very badly as even my leman russes went down pretty fast against hellblasters, a predator and a redemptor, all of which were very hard for me to remove as I didn’t have enough big guns. In a 1000 point game I didn’t have enough points to take the HWSs but in a 2k point game I would add a couple. If they chip a few wounds off something, or even if they draw fire away from the tanks for a turn then I think they are worth it IMO.

 

 

Edited April 4 by TheArtilleryman

[AutumnEffect]

22 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

I feel like taking mortars is a waste of points. We don’t need any more AP 0 shooting; what we need is as many high strength high AP shots as possible so that when we finally do hit something, it actually makes a hole in it.

 

It's really the cheap Indirect that you're buying them for. They are perfect for removing small, relatively under-armored units that hang around on backfield objectives like Scouts or Ork Commandos.

 

Something it'd be a waste to dump your stronger artillery on, but you can only reach out and touch with indirect. That it lets the Mortar squad also hide in cover is another bonus.

Lascannons are the ones that seem the most skeptical in my eyes. I don't really want to use an Order on them, and hitting with a 4+ and just 3 shots is sketchy odds. Mathematically you're only doing 2.92 wounds to Chimera a turn, 3.89 with 3+ hit. 2.33 wounds to a Russ and 3.11 with BS 3+.

The Heavy Weapon Squad's special rule means they can have value with multi-shot weapons so I've made a heavy bolter squad but it doesn't make the points cuts into my lists. I think that their biggest problem is that they don't really do anything you can't get better elsewhere.

Edited April 4 by AutumnEffect

[TheArtilleryman]

6 minutes ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

It's really the cheap Indirect that you're buying them for. They are perfect for removing small, relatively under-armored units that hang around on backfield objectives like Scouts or Ork Commandos.

 

Something it'd be a waste to dump your stronger artillery on, but you can only reach out and touch with indirect. That it lets the Mortar squad also hide in cover is another bonus.

My view is probably a symptom of the armies I regularly face i.e. primaris marines and Death Guard, neither of which would be easily removed in this way. 

I do think we should be able to take more than three squads if we want though. This is one case where I think two datasheets would be good. Perhaps one for heavy bolter/mortar and one for lascannon/missile launcher/autocannon.

Edited April 4 by TheArtilleryman

[AutumnEffect]

21 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

My view is probably a symptom of the armies I regularly face i.e. primaris marines and Death Guard, neither of which would be easily removed in this way. 

I do think we should be able to take more than three squads if we want though. This is one case where I think two datasheets would be good. Perhaps one for heavy bolter/mortar and one for lascannon/missile launcher/autocannon.

 

I agree with having a second datasheet 100%. I edited my post above to mention that their current special rule favors multi-shot weapons for overwatch which, practically speaking, is just the heavy bolter and maybe the autocannon or missile launcher firing frag.

IMO they should have an Anti-Tank Heavy Weapon Squad with some kind of rule to boost the horrible odds they currently have for cracking armor and then an Infantry Support Squad.
A special rule where you pick one of two options based on your targets would also work and give Autocannons and Missile Launchers a needed boost if they were determined to make one datasheet.

Another idea being they could give them re-roll hits if the squad doesn't move or +1 armour save if they stand still. Either of those would help with their problems: Low survivability and low hit odds for their price. Suddenly you might not mind making them hit on a 3+ re-rolling with an order.
It'd also be pretty fluffy with how 'dug in' the models typically look with their tripods and sandbags.

Edited April 4 by AutumnEffect

[Bouargh]

I usually field 3 units: autocanon, mortar and missile launcher. Yet, as I play a Tank based list mainly, these HWS units usually perform well. Meaning that they have a good durability. There are indeed other targets in my list that keep the ennemy busy; busy enough to leave my teams untouched at least until latter in the game.

 

My mortars usually perform low, but for the very same reason as the previously underlined one: again power armour units it is a bit of a pointless weapon. But I like the idea of a mortar very much (Please bring back a Griphon Heavy mortar model!); so I do not really care . Autocannon is a good round overall option. Missile laucher is more conjunctural: can be great or can be really poor.

 

So one in one they work "average" for me. Said otherwise: they cannot be a corner stone for any tactical built 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

8 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

My view is probably a symptom of the armies I regularly face i.e. primaris marines and Death Guard, neither of which would be easily removed in this way. 

I do think we should be able to take more than three squads if we want though. This is one case where I think two datasheets would be good. Perhaps one for heavy bolter/mortar and one for lascannon/missile launcher/autocannon.

Mortar 

hvy bolter/missile launcher

auto/lascannon

 

iirc that’s how it used to be broken up.

[SteveAntilles]

Anti-infantry/Anti-tank/Mortar squad. Bringing those back would be awesome.

[Santaclauswitz]

I've a mortar hws and a lascanon hws in my current list. Mortar does mortar stuff nothing special there. The lascanons are there for a bit of mind trickery mostly. It doesn't matter if you go first or second but as soon as the other player picks up their shiniest vehicle and puts it in line of site I always say one word "overwatch". It focuses the hws in the players mind and makes it seem far more threatening than it's points cost. If the other player's target selection is actually what I want him to shoot at then I'm on to a winner!

[Sergeant Bastone]

I sometimes plant a mortar squad in a corner to zone out bad guys and get those sweet "scan table quarter" secondaries.  They don't really do much more than a wound here and there.

 

I've run autocannon and lascannon squads but they just die.  The guys at my LGS make them a priority target and frankly they are a super-efficient thing to shoot at.  And infantry squad sitting there with a lascannon, plasma gun, and plasma pistol is just better imo.