Terminology issues in the community.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I’ve noticed an issue with people uses some terms for units or parts of units, or wargear interchangeably when they’re very different things, mostly on Reddit tbh, other than annoying me personally, I’ve seen so many unnecessary questions from newbies posted because they were confused about something because people weren’t using the correct terms.

 

it seems to be the biggest offenders are amongst guard players, using heavy weapon team when they mean heavy weapon squad.

 

talking about bullgryn when some one is asking about ogryn.

 

there was one marine based one I can’t recall atm.

 

anyone else seen this?

[phandaal]

Yeah, for some reason instead of proper faction names like Eldar and Dark Eldar, I keep seeing people using ridiculous names like "Aeldari" and "Drukhari."

 

What's up with that?

[Emperor Ming]

As long as peeps understands the lore, then its all good right?

 

Bullgryns are ogryns outfitted for cc

 

Dark Eldar: Imperial Lingo, aka gothic

 

Drukhari: Dark eldar, how they actually refer to their species in their own language. 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 minute ago, Emperor Ming said:

As long as peeps understands the lore, then its all good right?

 

Bullgryns are ogryns outfitted for cc

 

Dark Eldar: Imperial Lingo, aka gothic

 

Drukhari: Dark eldar, how they actually refer to their species in their own language. 

 

When talking lore the bullgryn/ogryn thing is less of an issue, but when people are talking table top and asking about army lists, they’re two very different things.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, phandaal said:

Yeah, for some reason instead of proper faction names like Eldar and Dark Eldar, I keep seeing people using ridiculous names like "Aeldari" and "Drukhari."

 

What's up with that?

Big talk for a Squa—I mean “Leagues of Votann” player.

[Wormwoods]

I'll be honest, the biggest terminology issue I've had in my local community is that nobody can remember what the flamer primaris marines are called. Firebats, maybe, who can say. 

 

In the case of heavy weapon teams/squads, surely the context of them being part of an infantry squad would help with that, right? 

[phandaal]

11 hours ago, Rain said:

Big talk for a Squa—I mean “Leagues of Votann” player.

 

"Big" talk?? That's a grudgin'.

 

Now, where did I leave that ladder...

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

10 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

"Big" talk?? That's a grudgin'.

 

Now, where did I leave that ladder...

Low blow incoming...

[Bouargh]

Sometimes it is indeed an issue, for example while having to deal with a flying predator. Instead of Gladiator, GLeaius,... Glastuff? Well I guess that flying predator is OK and should be kept...

I am myself very prompt to misuses. My Imperial guard, sorry, Astra militarum is a good example of mine.

SMurfs also, even if it is well known that it should apply anly to blue marines.

 

Back to some more "serious" stuff, I´s say I have much more difficulties tbh with abbreviations. DG stands for Death Guard or Dolce Gabbana? UM is for the SMurfs Marines or for Unaccompanied Minors? LoS vs. LOS ... Multiples abbrev for Death Korps of Krieg... There are bunches of examples like that that may required stopping and thinking for a while sometimes.  

[Doobles57]

8 hours ago, Wormwoods said:

I'll be honest, the biggest terminology issue I've had in my local community is that nobody can remember what the flamer primaris marines are called. Firebats, maybe, who can say. 

My immediate reaction to this was to scoff and think how can people not know the name of a pretty new unit.

 

Then I tried to remember their name......

 

Eventually I got to Inferno marines and had to look it up to see how close i was. 

I own 10 and use them often. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

8 hours ago, Wormwoods said:

I'll be honest, the biggest terminology issue I've had in my local community is that nobody can remember what the flamer primaris marines are called. Firebats, maybe, who can say. 

 

In the case of heavy weapon teams/squads, surely the context of them being part of an infantry squad would help with that, right? 

Nope.

ive seen a new person who thought they were the same thing, and thus could take 3 heavy weapons teams in an infantry squads.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

To be fair there is a huge amount of terminology to get to grips with. Outside of Space Marines I really don't much about 40k language. Like all the different Baneblade tank names. 

[Brother Tyler]

Confusion on correct terminology is not a new issue, nor is it exclusive to this community. As has been pointed out, however, there is a lot of terminology that is specific to the hobby, so new hobbyists have to learn a lot and existing hobbyists have to remain current as the body of terminology grows and changes.

 

The correct answer to the question of how to deal with incorrect usages is to be polite in correcting such incorrect usages. Nobody needs to be berated for accidentally using incorrect terminology (and this can be a very bad form of gatekeeping). If people continue using incorrect terminology after being corrected, they either don't get it or they don't care, in which case you should do yourself a favor and just ignore it (either by staying out of the discussion or simply by participating in the discussion without harping on the correct terminology).

 

Some things that we have done here to help hobbyists in learning the terminology that is used within the hobby and this community is to create the Legio Lexicon and to incorporate a function that allows members to see what acronyms mean. For example: TDA (that should appear underlined - hover over it to see what the acronym means)

 

The problem with both of these capabilities is that, as with everything else here at the Bolter & Chainsword, they rely on member contributions in order to remain up to date. While we built an initial structure for each and have occasionally updated each, we (the administrators and moderators) are not all-knowing and need the rest of the community to help us keep these up to date and as complete as possible. You can submit your recommendations here.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Brother Tyler said:

Confusion on correct terminology is not a new issue, nor is it exclusive to this community. As has been pointed out, however, there is a lot of terminology that is specific to the hobby, so new hobbyists have to learn a lot and existing hobbyists have to remain current as the body of terminology grows and changes.

 

The correct answer to the question of how to deal with incorrect usages is to be polite in correcting such incorrect usages. Nobody needs to be berated for accidentally using incorrect terminology (and this can be a very bad form of gatekeeping). If people continue using incorrect terminology after being corrected, they either don't get it or they don't care, in which case you should do yourself a favor and just ignore it (either by staying out of the discussion or simply by participating in the discussion without harping on the correct terminology).

 

Some things that we have done here to help hobbyists in learning the terminology that is used within the hobby and this community is to create the Legio Lexicon and to incorporate a function that allows members to see what acronyms mean. For example: TDA (that should appear underlined - hover over it to see what the acronym means)

 

The problem with both of these capabilities is that, as with everything else here at the Bolter & Chainsword, they rely on member contributions in order to remain up to date. While we built an initial structure for each and have occasionally updated each, we (the administrators and moderators) are not all-knowing and need the rest of the community to help us keep these up to date and as complete as possible. You can submit your recommendations here.

In my experience the improper use of terms isn’t exactly intentional.

 

in most cases it’s apathy about the specifics at best.

[ThaneOfTas]

6 hours ago, Doobles57 said:

My immediate reaction to this was to scoff and think how can people not know the name of a pretty new unit.

 

Then I tried to remember their name......

 

Eventually I got to Inferno marines and had to look it up to see how close i was. 

I own 10 and use them often. 

I just flat out refuse to use their GW assigned name, they so incredibly clearly should have been called Pyreblasters to maintain the format of the Hellblasters, and i am just utterly baffled that GW chose not to go with that. And while we are on the subject, the "Desolation Squad" also clearly should have been the Desolators, the entire Primaris infanty range up until this point has been named in the format of "Verb"-ers/ors (Intercessors, Infiltrators, Inceptors, Suppressors, Reivers, Hellblasters, Eradicators, Incursors, etc, etc, etc) You cant start and then follow a pattern like that for 6 years and like a dozen releases and then just stop out of nowhere. I know it was a very heavily meme'd on pattern, heck i happily contributed to those memes, but it had just become a quirk of the model line are a part of the identity of the Primaris Range. 

So yeah, to bring my little rant further back onto topic, I'll be calling them Pyreblasters and Desolators until after GW squats both squads, and i will make no apologies for using the "incorrect" terminology in this case.

[Magos Takatus]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:25 AM, phandaal said:

Yeah, for some reason instead of proper faction names like Eldar and Dark Eldar, I keep seeing people using ridiculous names like "Aeldari" and "Drukhari."

 

What's up with that?

 

As amused as I was by this post I've always thought "Dark Eldar" was a pretty lame faction name and was glad to ditch the name when something else came along. It doesn't sound like a name the faction would use to describe themselves. I think the opposite is true of Chaos Space Marines though. I've seen GW throwing the phrase "Heretic Astartes" around recently. That's a fine description for me as an Imperial player but would they describe themselves as heretics? Doubtful.

 

12 hours ago, Bouargh said:

Sometimes it is indeed an issue, for example while having to deal with a flying predator. Instead of Gladiator, GLeaius,... Glastuff? Well I guess that flying predator is OK and should be kept...

I am myself very prompt to misuses. My Imperial guard, sorry, Astra militarum is a good example of mine.

SMurfs also, even if it is well known that it should apply anly to blue marines.

 

Back to some more "serious" stuff, I´s say I have much more difficulties tbh with abbreviations. DG stands for Death Guard or Dolce Gabbana? UM is for the SMurfs Marines or for Unaccompanied Minors? LoS vs. LOS ... Multiples abbrev for Death Korps of Krieg... There are bunches of examples like that that may required stopping and thinking for a while sometimes.  

 

That my Adeptus Mechanicus share the same abbreviation as "Astra Militarum" annoys me more than it should, but then there's the recycling of unit names in 40k and 30k. Breachers, Destroyers, Infiltrators... I think "Pathfinders" got phased out of use for Aeldari Rangers but for a time they shared their name with T'au infantry. I know there is a finite number of words in the English language to describe things and GW get roasted for some of their bizarre Primaris unit names but having to double-check the context of the conversation to figure out what "Destroyer" unit they are talking about is pretty irritating.

[Emperor Ming]

4 hours ago, Magos Takatus said:

but would they describe themselves as heretics? Doubtful.

Well how else does one refer to the archenemy

[TheArtilleryman]

10 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

You cant start and then follow a pattern like that for 6 years

I think you’ll find they just did :p

 

9 hours ago, Magos Takatus said:

That's a fine description for me as an Imperial player but would they describe themselves as heretics? Doubtful.

Just finished reading The First Heretic and the captain of the Gal Vorbak literally said “we are heretics.” So yeah, probably 

9 hours ago, Magos Takatus said:

That my Adeptus Mechanicus share the same abbreviation as "Astra Militarum" annoys me more than it should

Yep this does my head in too. We’re the Imperial Guard, dagnamit 

Edited April 5 by TheArtilleryman

[phandaal]

5 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Just finished reading The First Heretic and the captain of the Gal Vorbak literally said “we are heretics.” So yeah, probably 

 

I would not take that line as reflective of the way Chaos Space Marines are portrayed in general.

 

A renegade, non-Chaos chapter might consider themselves heretics if they did something "heretical" out of necessity and were ostracized for it, but that would not apply to most of the armies represented by "Heretic Astartes" rules.

 

Most Chaos Space Marines do not recognize the Imperial religion as valid. In fact, Word Bearers and similar Chaos worshippers see the Imperium as heretics. To them, Chaos is the true religion.

[Rain]

I have always taken Codices to be written from a quasi-Imperial perspective. I don’t think Chaos Marines (or, say, Orks or Tyranids) would bother compiling a book about themselves, or think too much about how they refer to themselves. 

 

Also, some Chaos Marines get off on being heretics, e.g. the Emperor’s Children not changing their name as a form of mockery.

[Kallas]

56 minutes ago, Rain said:

I don’t think Chaos Marines (or, say, Orks or Tyranids) would bother compiling a book about themselves

Have you considered Tzeentchian CSM? They love books!

[Special Officer Doofy]

We all know the real reason for the silly names. Dark Eldar are not Drukhari because that is what the dark space elves refer to themselves and Chaos Space Marines are not Heretic Astartes because that's what the Imperium sees them as. It has to do with trademarks/copyrights.

[Magos Takatus]

True, that's the real reason of course, and also why every new set of models had a seemingly overcomplicated name, but there's a certain amount of in-universe justification. Drukhari are far  too arrogant to just consider themselves the "Dark" offshoot of "Normal" Eldar. They aren't the ones that changed their behaviour after all.

 

I've also seen a lot more creative colour schemes for the army since the "Dark" descriptor has been removed. I know you could always paint them however you wanted but it seems to me people are a bit more experimental with their Drukhari colour schemes these days and it makes me wonder if having them called "Dark Eldar" was holding some people back from the more wild colour schemes? No actual evidence for that, just going from my own observations over time.

 

I don't think all the names stuck the landing though. I think the "Orruks" and "Ogors" from Age of Sigmar are pretty feeble names in comparison. 

[TheArtilleryman]

1 hour ago, Magos Takatus said:

"Orruks"

This one is notable in 40K because they are still called “Orks.” I think because they have always spelt it with the k and everyone else spells it with a c, they haven’t needed to give them a funny name. So glad they didn’t need to call them “Orkis” or something.

[Halandaar]

3 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

We all know the real reason for the silly names. Dark Eldar are not Drukhari because that is what the dark space elves refer to themselves and Chaos Space Marines are not Heretic Astartes because that's what the Imperium sees them as. It has to do with trademarks/copyrights.

 

Well yes, we all know this. But at least they bothered with an in-universe justification for those names. Drukhari is how they refer to themselves in their own tongue, with "Dark Eldar" being an imperial shorthand term from when they were first encountered and/or determined to be distinct from "normal" Eldar the Imperium had encountered previously. And even though names like Astra Militarum might be "new" to us, at least it fits thematically with names like the Adeptus Mechanicus and Adeptus Astra Telepathica, which have been in the language of the game for far longer.