Thoughts on the Tau Codex

[chapter master 454]

Naturally, it isn't out properly yet but thought I'd put this here anyway just to start any discussions that can be had about the codex and see what things if anything people have been playing with, having success with and so on.

 

For reference for myself in usage: my principle for how my lists are built is that if there is a current standing points listed in the MFM for the unit being used, I use that points costs. If the unit does not have a relevent entry (for example: the 3 crisis suits variants) then I use the points listed in the codex. This is based on the fact that normally when the MFM does get updated with points for the new codex, the costs tend to follow that trend. Naturally, some may be an outlier, Kroot Carnivores certainly stand out here but I haven't been using them. Nice models though.

 

So far, stand-out unit imo is Breachers in a devilfish with cadre fireblade. 2 gun drones on the cadre, 1 gun and 1 guardian on the breachers...these guys just rip through whatever you want them to rip through. Better ballistic skill by base (3+ instead of 4+) so any guiding puts them to 2+ to hit is just incredible, followed by their strength 6 AP1 guns that get full re-rolls on targets on objectives is hard to pass up. C'tan don't like getting tagged by these guys, especially in Mont'Ka where Combat Debarkation grants re-rolls to wound even off objective just lets their 30 blaster shots do their job

Second are the Stealth Teams. The buff to their spotting rule just makes them sing and if they do stay at 60 points, I feel a triple take of these guys for their spotting power and utility infiltration is hard to ignore. -1 to hit with a 3+ save and 2 wounds base make them a lot tougher than some may expect and while not juggernauts...they don't fold to token gunfire quickly.

 

Riptides may actually be on a small comeback just because detachments that actually do something instead of nothing for the 2 most critical turns of the game helps them get some ground. Currently not sure what is going to be the go to load-out as the burst cannon in Mont'Ka has some merits but that Ion Accelerator being base damage 3 non-charged is just a menace to nearly anything. This is paired with the fact they are remarkably FAT for their cost. T9, 2+ and 4++ with 14 wounds is fairly hard to remove and with their 2 support systems, they can always fall back (or not if you don't want to risk dangerous breakout on a failed battle-shock) and shoot at full effect due to ignoring whatever modifiers their like on hit rolls. Sure, 4+ to hit ain't great but you will never be hitting on worse than that at range.

 

Still lots of testing to be done but my only certainties is Triple Devilfish with 30 breachers and 3 cadres. Mont'Ka, Kauyon...heck even in the other 2 detachments I feel they make solid front line objective clearers or follow-ups. Opponent doesn't handle the 13 wound 3+ save devilfish? Well it can ether now shuffle that breacher squad off to another location or just zip away with 12" movement to get other objectives done. Far too much utility and straight hitting power in these units to pass up and they tend to work fairly well by themselves, even if you don't support them with stealth suits (which those should be included in your lists as well imo).

[Wormwoods]

Breachers with a fireblade does seem pretty damn good. My durdly stealth-themed Tau force that's coming together will be running that, though maybe not in the devilfish just yet. 

[MithrilForge]

Thanks for creating this topic . 
I’m starting back into T’AU and can use all the help I can get .  Your thoughts make me happy that the first unit I’m finishing is some breachers !! 
, I want to run an enforcer commander with a Tag along fire knife unit with missile pods all round !! It’ll look cool and hopefully be fun to play as well !! , 

better get me a devil fish for my breachers I’m guessing!! 
 

cheers,  M 

Edited April 9 by MithrilForge

[The Pounder]

Great initial thoughts @chapter master 454!

 

I’m starting things slightly differently from your good selves.

 

I’ll start my force with Kroot being the first focus. So lots to be getting on with!
 

The intention is to build on my Kroot Hunting pack but add an Armoured Interdiction Cadre! (Was an Apocalypse formation)

 

I’ll form the AIC with Hammerheads and Sky Rays for antitank duties. Then hopefully add some spotter units as pts allow.

 

Question is would this work? I’m hoping it will.

[MithrilForge]

@The Pounder - I'm not Super Knowledgeable On T'AU but the Kroot warriors from your Hunting Pack Formation ...They can capture Objectives right ?.. Otherwise you may need a couple squads of Fire warriors /Breachers to accompany that Nice Fire Blade you did anyway  

 

So I know the Early release Codex came with the Kroot pack box but when is it actually dropping??,... I see the Ork Codex is hitting Pre order this Saturday....shouldn't The T"AU one have come first  I'm Confused... 

 

M  

[andes]

LOL, I know right? I'll have access to Ork data in the app before T'au, despite me getting the T'au codex a month prior

[chapter master 454]

4 hours ago, The Pounder said:

Great initial thoughts @chapter master 454!

 

I’m starting things slightly differently from your good selves.

 

I’ll start my force with Kroot being the first focus. So lots to be getting on with!
 

The intention is to build on my Kroot Hunting pack but add an Armoured Interdiction Cadre! (Was an Apocalypse formation)

 

I’ll form the AIC with Hammerheads and Sky Rays for antitank duties. Then hopefully add some spotter units as pts allow.

 

Question is would this work? I’m hoping it will.

 

Some in my group certainly are talking about the absurd body count you can put down on the field with kroot, and while not hard hitting, the fact is that there is going to wave after wave of models just running at you over and over again. Maybe not the hardest hitting but you could easily move block or even just deny any sort of board presence at all with kroot clogging up areas, with attention focused on their anti-infantry. Personally would suggest taking a tempurature test of how your groups play, if there are a good number of problem units with the fly key-word, Skyrays will likely serve better as you have to remember Kroot can't guide, so having inherent re-rolls to hit and wound will mean it doesn't need such support as much. However, if not I think providing you aren't running up against insurmountable amounts of invulns, hammerhead railguns will do just as well with minimal supporting guiding units (talking Shadowsun and at most 2 ghostkeels) and those guns are hitting harder targets on 2+ when guiding with re-roll 1s from shadowsun, you then can sav the inherent re-roll of the tank for the wound roll. D6+6 damage should be enough to massively cripple most targets, and a min damage of 7 means most hard targets will be below half strength...perfect for your kroot.

However that list will likely want to lean on having Etherals around as CP farmers. You will NEVER want to miss a Join the Hunt chance thus putting more pressure on your opponent and possibly slowing their ability to kill units (and each turn they burn, thats another turn of cleanse + deploy being done).

 

I feel it has the potiential to work as contrary to the guard, the kroot will have a 5++ against shooting which will be the usual problem the kroot have but when now 1/3 of the shooting will bounce, the statistics now mean that a squad of 20 will need to suffer something like 28/29 wounds to fully clear the squad (because each save now means that kroot feeds back into the system) so the opponent will be inclined to get into melee to turn that into a 6++ and avoid the stealth debuff kroot have but now they are tied up with a blob of kroot that can now just tri-point the heck out of whatever engaged it and hold onto it where they like...and what? They going to out OC you with 2OC each? even just 5 of them have 10OC.

Take along some Kroot Farstalkers as infiltrators and if your opponent doesn't have infiltrators of their own or whoopsies and doesn't use their first drop to block the farstalker infiltrating right up the field, you can easily hem them in with just an obscene amount of bodies.

Not a list about killing, a list about having objective control via weight of bodies.

[The Pounder]

@MithrilForge.  I’d imagine you’re not going to have to wait too much longer!

 

As for the Breachers you’re right! I need to get a Squad for the Fireblade to lead. 
 

Would fit nicely with my idea of mechanised T’au backed up by Kroot.

 

 

Thanks @chapter master 454! Massively detailed explanation.

 

 I’m planning on 3 20 Kroot squads as the backbone of the force plus character support.

 

 

Haven't opened my Hunting Pack box yet. I have to finish my AoS models before I go all out on the T’au and Kroot…..

 

Its killing me!!

[Spinsanity]

If you're going with a Kroot Hunting Force to begin with, might I suggest a unit or two of Fireknife suits? While you can't guide Kroot, the Fireknife can RR 1s to hit when attacking a full-strength unit to soften it up so the Kroot can in turn, hopefully, get their Hunter's Instincts hit bonus...

[Hfran Morkai]

Looking forward to seeing people's thoughts develop.

 

I decided to take the plunge and ordered the current Combat Patrol along with a box of Stealth Suits.

 

I'm sure in my pile of opportunity I've a Fire Warrior/Breacher team and maybe a Pathfinder team?

 

I love the Devilfish design and the idea of units rappelling out of them from Cities of Death so I'd be looking to build mechanised if the project ever gets going. Thinking the upcoming Combat Patrol, some extra Devilfish and some XV8 (Magnets definitely, just in case things change again) for the Commander.

[MithrilForge]

Instead of magnets I’ve done two brass rod prongs that slot into two holes in the arm snug enough to not come out easily (and if you over drill the holes you put green stuff into it and slot the wire in before it’s cured to remake the hole . 
the new CP Box looks great with troops and a DevilFish !.

 I’m  just wondering when the heck is the Codex dropping  !! 

Orks and Custards are up for pre order this weekend, I was expecting T’AU to drop before them . 
 

M 

Edited April 13 by MithrilForge

[Focslain]

Got in a game with the new dex over the weekend. Did a 1K versus Custodes with my standard tau list. 

2 Strike squads, riptide, ghostkeel, stealth suit team, hammerhead (rail), skyray, Fireblade and ethreal.

 

He had 3 bikes, 2 squads of SoS, 2 captains, 1 squad of guard and 1 2 man team of termies. 

 

It was a blood bath and he was down to one unit by turn 3. I lost 75% of my firewarriors and a stealth suit.

 

Was using Mont'Ka and it did help. The extra wounding via Lethal meant he was rolling saves against ~half my shots, which was a lot of shots.

 

Going to see how the Retaliation Cadre works with my old battlesuit heavy list. But need to check on some re-organization of the units first. Liking the idea of a double bombing run with the grenade pack.

Edited April 16 by Focslain

[Hfran Morkai]

In the new Codex can Devilfish still take Smart Missile Systems?

 

Because back in the day I distinctly remember trying to build SMS out of Crisis Missile Pods.

 

Though I'm sure someone must be selling prints these days of the SMS.

[The Pounder]

Yes they can! I’m thinking of using them on my Devilfish.

 

 

[chapter master 454]

Don't.

 

The Twin-Pulse Carbines give them a weapon with the assault keyword which means that when they advance and disembark a unit, they can still be used for guiding other units. On top of that the SMS are just not that good. Base hit rate of 4+ means if you use it for the indirect you are hitting on 5s...which kind of stinks.

 

Keep the twin-pulses, it offers better utility and outright better damage imo. Their job is to be annoyances, transports and support, anything that hinders those aspects of their 75pt investment isn't worth it. Especially since advancing is part of their unique special rule.

[The Pounder]

Thanks for that @chapter master 454!

 

I hadn’t thought of that, I was looking at the extra shots and range!

[Hfran Morkai]

10 hours ago, chapter master 454 said:

Don't.

 

The Twin-Pulse Carbines give them a weapon with the assault keyword which means that when they advance and disembark a unit, they can still be used for guiding other units. On top of that the SMS are just not that good. Base hit rate of 4+ means if you use it for the indirect you are hitting on 5s...which kind of stinks.

 

Keep the twin-pulses, it offers better utility and outright better damage imo. Their job is to be annoyances, transports and support, anything that hinders those aspects of their 75pt investment isn't worth it. Especially since advancing is part of their unique special rule.

 

Intriguing.

 

Last time I seriously looked at T'au was 4th Ed so things were different.

 

I may still try and get some (without raiding Hammerheads) and not glue them so I've got options if things change.

 

I like the idea of an upgunned Fish to support a Pathfinder Squad deep behind enemy lines (fluff wise at least).

[MithrilForge]

2 hours ago, Hfran Morkai said:

 

Intriguing.

 

Last time I seriously looked at T'au was 4th Ed so things were different.

 

I may still try and get some (without raiding Hammerheads) and not glue them so I've got options if things change.

 

I like the idea of an up gunned Fish to support a Pathfinder Squad deep behind enemy lines (fluff wise at least).

Easily doable I guess, how many gun drones does one have spare that you can simply slot em in to the Fish when needed ... 

I too have not played T'AU for a good long time either 

 

M

[chapter master 454]

Oh and to further note out to my fellow Shas'Os, carefully check your datasheets weapons as some will be different by slight amounts. It is notable that the Hammerhead and Skyray twin-pulse carbine options both lack the assault keyword while when on the devilfish they do have assault.

 

I believe this can also extend out to various other weapons too, SMS seem to slightly vary depending on what platform they are mounted on. Oh and the comedy of why Piranha Fusion Blasters are Melta 4 but the Fusion Collider of the Ghostkeel is Melta 2

 

Silly details like that are something I notice...like how co-ordinated engagement enhancement from Mont'Ka for some reason specifically states the character it is given to only gains the benefit if leading a unit...Just makes it not worth 20 points imo.

[MithrilForge]

Reading About the "New" Combat Patrol For T'AU it mentions in the Blurb that the Enforcer Suit Counts as a Vehicle for shooting purposes (he/she can shoot in close Combat!!...  That seems kinda cool  But what's the downside of being classed as a Vehicle for him I wonder???...  

 

Cheers, M 

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, MithrilForge said:

But what's the downside of being classed as a Vehicle for him I wonder???...  

 

Probably just that he is more vulnerable to units that get bonuses when attacking vehicles I suspect (e.g. Eradicators, Haywire weapons etc).

[MithrilForge]

So in saying that can he then be Targeted by Sniper units...  or does he have character keyword as well... (i'm a bit behind on new rules at the moment)

 

M

[Hfran Morkai]

2 hours ago, MithrilForge said:

So in saying that can he then be Targeted by Sniper units...  or does he have character keyword as well... (i'm a bit behind on new rules at the moment)

 

M

 

I've got to try and adapt from 5th to 10th.

 

Seriously tempted to ask my local GW for an intro game.

 

"Hi, I've been in the hobby since either late third edition or early fourth (T'au Empire was just "Tau") but stopped playing 40K at 5th and haven't had a game of anything since despite having a small army of 30K stuff so would like to learn how to play with my toys."

[chapter master 454]

In current 10th edition characters are attached at to units that they are eligable to join (which units they can join are listed on their datasheet) before the battle begins and while attached normally confer benefits to the unit (and notably vice versa as well, they are for all purposes now part of the unit and alter the units starting strength for considering Battleshock checks).

 

Characters do NOT need to be attached to any unit when declaring such things but do not benefit from any inherent rules that prevent them from being shot at by any means other than standard requirements for said weapons to be able to shoot at the character in question.

However a selection of characters may have the unique USR called "Lone operative" which grants them immunity to being targeted by ranged attacks outside of 12". This ability is very powerful and isn't the sole ownership of characters (in tau, we notably have Ghostkeels which have this special rule). This rule is NOT transferable to units they join (unless there is a seperate rule performing its own function, like Shrike from the Space Marines).

 

Character rules are now vastly simplified and lots of gimmicks and rule abuse cases removed. It does hark back to earlier editions in a lot of ways with the only caveat being that characters cannot leave the unit they join, nor can they join a new unit mid battle if their current unit is destroyed.

 

Sniper type weapons are defined by having the Precision keyword on their datasheet (not restricted to ranged weapons ether btw, be careful) however this isn't something to be worried about in a lot of cases as it is kind of comical how easy it is to avoid it. First thing is that normally when you land the wounding roll, your opponent will allocate the wound to a model within the squad of their choice EXCEPT any characters within the squad (as any unit that has one or more attached characters becomes a "bodyguard" and as per the rules, unless an ability says otherwise, you CANNOT put wounds on a character until all other models in their squad have been removed).

However with Precision weapons, when you get a successful wound, you now get a choice to allocate to the bodyguard squad (in which case owning player gets a choice of which model takes it) OR if the attacking model can draw Line of Sight to a character model within the squad then you may allocate via this ability to the character who then must make relevent saving throws.

 

In terms of the combat patrol for tau, none of this matters really as the commander has no units to join and thus is largely being treated as a sort of "mini-monster" unit for the patrol. He can be shot freely providing no other special rules he gains from enhancements from within the combat patrol interfere. Be a vehicle btw means he can continue to shoot even when tied up in melee however will suffer a -1 to hit when doing so AND he cannot target the unit he is engaged with, with any weapons that have the Blast keyword.

 

Just keep him in the back, supporting the real damage dealers (the breachers).

 

 

And to comment on 10th edition: the game is very much better and easier to learn than 8th and 9th. While it still has minor tricks and areas to learn, the rules are straight forward and you can get playing fairly quickly with little hassle.

Many say it is too complicated but...I can't help but look back at 8th...then look at 5th...even 4th...and ask...how is 10th more complicated than those?

[MithrilForge]

Question -  I'm building some Breacher teams and Fire warrior teams I want to know what the best drone additions are to the Fire warrior teams?... 

I was thinking Guardian drone and Gun drone but if there are ant other more Viable options I'd like to hear them please  

And while I'm at it Pathfinder teams as well !!

 

Cheers, Mithril