Orks Legends changes

[Tokugawa]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/lbjrPJ4LgS5ATuQd.pdf

 

Weirdly, it updated days before MFM and points cost update of Ork new codex.

 

Retirement of "warboss on warbike" is finally officially confirmed, after many years. Most FW stuff like Grot tanks also gone. 

[Lexington]

Ah, well. Legends is still fully playable, and 10th Ed is nowhere near a good or balanced enough game for me to care about the mainline/Legends distinction. It’s pretty much a representation of sales funnels, and not a lot else.

[mecanojavi99]

I'm personally more upset about the removal of 3 named characters out of nowhere when SM could field entire armies of them...

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, mecanojavi99 said:

I'm personally more upset about the removal of 3 named characters out of nowhere when SM could field entire armies of them...

Less noticed, but sergeant Telion and Chronus also didn't pass the rubicon.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

I still people should be more open to play old editions - instead of the latests. Solves alot of this "Legends" and the best editions are usually not the latest - in my humble opinion..

Edited April 26 by Firedrake Cordova
Swear filter

[Rain]

13 hours ago, Wolf Lord Duregar said:

I still people should be more open to play old editions - instead of the latests. Solves alot of this "Legends"  and the best editions are usually not the latest - in my humble opinion..

The problem is that the current thing is a universal baseline. Otherwise people would constantly disagree about which version to play. I would personally love 5th edition with the 6th ed Chaos codex, and slightly houseruled wound allocation, but…that’s a lot to agree upon.

 

I guess I’d also be fine with 3rd using codices from the very end of 3rd.

Edited April 26 by Firedrake Cordova

[TheTrans]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

I guess I’d also be fine with 3rd using codices from the very end of 3rd.

 

I'm running a 32 player event, with a significant waitlist, doing exactly that, based around the Eye of Terror campaign, people are gagging for Nostalgia! 

Also allowing use of the Vehicle/Nid Creature Design Rules allows some new, cool :cuss: to be used in conjunction with some of the  very early Imperial Armours. 

We also down in Victoria had a WHFB 6th edition resurgence for a few years, which was great, I imagine ToW will at least initially kill that, but it was bloody ace!

Mordheim is always floating around also... pretty much if its turn of the century GW, you'll probably find some peeps to play with haha. 

[Borbarad]

On 4/25/2024 at 6:33 AM, Lexington said:

Ah, well. Legends is still fully playable, and 10th Ed is nowhere near a good or balanced enough game for me to care about the mainline/Legends distinction. It’s pretty much a representation of sales funnels, and not a lot else.

GW is so inept at balancing the game, that the balancing argument is nothing but a joke. The reason legends exist is twofold:

 

A) Coax players whi have HH era units into collecting HH proper. 
 

B) Discontinuing ForgeWorld and old model ranges

 

I for one can not trust GW that the investment in their ever more expensive products will be long term viable and thus will resort to print more often. 

 

 

[Lexington]

3 hours ago, Borbarad said:

GW is so inept at balancing the game, that the balancing argument is nothing but a joke. The reason legends exist is twofold:

 

A) Coax players whi have HH era units into collecting HH proper. 
 

B) Discontinuing ForgeWorld and old model ranges

Eh, I don’t think they’re inept at it, necessarily. It’s just that, for their mainline games anyway, rules-qua-rules isn’t really GW’s priority. Rules are marketing first, and a game second, and their marketing mantra is “ease of entry.” Their goal is for a player to be able to walk into a store (ideally a GW/Warhammer one), pick up a Codex and be able to purchase any model they see inside. That first interaction/purchase is something GW is very, very focused on, and it drives more decisions than I think a lot of people realize. GW rules designers, both current and former, talk about it pretty openly.

 

This is why Legends exists - it’s a place for all those models that you can’t get on store shelves anymore. This is why they don’t get much in the way of updates or balance considerations. It’s also a driver for lots of other rules decisions that make no sense as rules decisions. Why don’t we have a Force Organization Chart anymore? Ease of entry. Why doesn’t wargear have associated points values anymore? Ease of entry. Having those things complicates that first sale, so away they go.

 

This isn’t actually all terrible, IMO. Sure, it’s made 40K an increasingly shallow and boring game experience for long-term players, but there’s a sort of freedom in understanding and accepting GW’s reasoning for their own actions. Once you do that, the idea of abandoning or disallowing Legends units becomes fairly absurd. If GW doesn’t care, why should we? Use your old models. Enjoy yourself and don’t sweat ideas like “balance” or “competitiveness.” They’re not what the game is designed for.

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Lexington said:

Why doesn’t wargear have associated points values anymore? Ease of entry. Having those things complicates that first sale, so away they go.

I'm completely on board with this; I just wish they had used 10th edition as an opportunity to internally balance gear/weapon stats so, for example, a flamer feels like it is worth taking compared to a plasmagun. 

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

11 hours ago, Rain said:

The problem is that the current thing is a universal baseline. Otherwise people would constantly disagree about which version to play. I would personally love 5th edition with the 6th ed Chaos codex, and slightly houseruled wound allocation, but…that’s a lot to agree upon.

 

I guess I’d also be fine with 3rd using codices from the very end of 3rd.

 

Yeah, I realize that, it is an issue. but only an issue as the discussion is not even being lifted in many places and everyone think everyone else just wants to play the latest version because reasons.

Discuss it with your mates and club or whatever. Chances are, if they were not around for your chose edition, they might not even wanna try as it feels "weird" or some other excuse. But try having the discussion. I know of quite a few groups that play older versions. There are Facebook-groups. Granted it was easier for Warhamemr Fantasy when it was "dead". Both 6th Ed and 8th Ed were being played by quite many. But have alook at the 4th Ed 40k Facebook-group for example.

 

Yeah I would be fin e with that too. Nice era.

 

9 hours ago, TheTrans said:

 

I'm running a 32 player event, with a significant waitlist, doing exactly that, based around the Eye of Terror campaign, people are gagging for Nostalgia! 

Also allowing use of the Vehicle/Nid Creature Design Rules allows some new, cool to be used in conjunction with some of the  very early Imperial Armours. 

We also down in Victoria had a WHFB 6th edition resurgence for a few years, which was great, I imagine ToW will at least initially kill that, but it was bloody ace!

Mordheim is always floating around also... pretty much if its turn of the century GW, you'll probably find some peeps to play with haha. 

 

Fantastic to hear! (Especially the 6th Ed - best Ed, WHFB thing!) Ah yeah, Mordheim is strong still. I play myself. And I just came home from picking up an Ork Boyz box to restart my suffering GorkaMorka Warband(s)....

 

 

1 hour ago, Lexington said:

Eh, I don’t think they’re inept at it, necessarily. It’s just that, for their mainline games anyway, rules-qua-rules isn’t really GW’s priority. Rules are marketing first, and a game second, and their marketing mantra is “ease of entry.” Their goal is for a player to be able to walk into a store (ideally a GW/Warhammer one), pick up a Codex and be able to purchase any model they see inside. That first interaction/purchase is something GW is very, very focused on, and it drives more decisions than I think a lot of people realize. GW rules designers, both current and former, talk about it pretty openly.

 

Yeah.. It´s all about easy access and selling models, lots of models..  And that´s why we should be more open with playing what suits us! Hehe. Not just always jumping on the bandwagon with the latest, overpriced, BS..

But worth keeping in mind about GW - it´s models.. Making new, made-up units to sell sometimes the same unit again, more expensive but new models..

 

Was it 4th Ed and the Dark Angels Codex we got a dumbed down wargear and options lists. Nothing that was not in boxes could basically any longer be chosen.. No longer leaving tit to people to hobby cool combi-weapons and a single lightning claws for vet sergs (or maybe that was possible but they seriously limited the options to what was availble in the kits only. I was almost crying when I saw the ork Codex replacing the 3rd Ed one...)