Some issues with Citadel base colours?

[Bouargh]

Hi, I have experienced some curious stuff lately with some new pots of base clour from Citadel. They look like they "lodt" some of their coverage efficiency. Behaving more like layer type. As if they were overdiluted with extra medium. Flyidity is ckearly higher too, so it looks like it is converging...

Happened with various colours, but is more relevant with black. Did you saw something similar?

 

PS by "new" understand most recently bought. No idea since when they are in store...

[Firedrake Cordova]

Batch variation is a possibility, although from what I've heard, GW's pretty fastidious about consistency.

 

If you look on the label, you might see a date code printed on them (year and month) if it hasn't rubbed off..?

[GreenScorpion]

@Bouargh I had a similar issue as what you describe. The paints I got from a few Conquest issues back in 2020 were marked as 2017-2019 and were extremely thick, covering surfaces very well even with the brush significantly wet, but the ones I got from the 9th edition paint set in 2021 were different, at least the pots marked as 2021 (the labels changed so it was easy to tell them apart). The abbadon black in particular was a lot more diluted than the one I had from Conquest and lasted a lot less as a consequence (I had to pass more times to get the same opaque finish). All of the older pots in the 9th edition set were thick like the ones from Conquest, but the newer ones were all very watery.

[TheArtilleryman]

Could that just be the age of the pot? They do have a tendency to thicken over time, so perhaps the newer pots are just fresher and have the consistency they are supposed to have?

[GreenScorpion]

13 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Could that just be the age of the pot? They do have a tendency to thicken over time, so perhaps the newer pots are just fresher and have the consistency they are supposed to have?

Not sure about Bouargh's case but what I saw was a complete change in terms of pigments versus amount of liquid which would not be explained by evaporation over time alone or even if it was possible the difference in terms of what a full pot looks like would be far different and I would have like half pots with the older paints which wasn't the case.

It could certainly be a bad batch, but it looked like a medium or proportions change at least on my end.
With greenstuff world's paints they went the other way around, from a more diluted version of their paints which was good for layering to a more thick and opaque version which they called Maxx or something. Overall it felt to me that GW was just increasing the liquid versus pigment proportion, so less pigment in a full pot since the final amount of paint is the same.

[Grotsmasha]

I have had a little variance in the consistency of newly bought pots, adding a agitator and thoroughly shaking the b'jesus out of it should sort it out. As a side note, I now swap all Citadel paints to dropper bottles, makes things easier in the long run.

 

[Bouargh]

If in the past I had some recurring issues with some citadel pots similar to paints too thick or partly solidified, this time it is just the opoosite. Too fluid.

 

Colours that used to give me issues in the past: Whites (all), Yellows (all), Wraithbone - these colours very very often come partly dried, with solid chunks in it or so thick you must dillute...

 

Colours that are giving me issues now: Abbadon Black, Eshin Grey, XV-88, Mechanicus Standard grey - these colour looks like they come as if being very very diluted and 2 or 3 layers are needed to cover the priming. As if they were formulated as layers and not bases.

Once written, it is more or less all the recent pots I bought over the past 6-8 months. Except Reds that are still behaving OK. Rest of my range is made of older pots. Some as olds as the early 90´s and still perfects. Can´t say that the recent paint have the same life expectancy...

 

 

[Firedrake Cordova]

That sounds frustrating.  Do you have a local GW store you can take them to and ask? If it's affecting lots of them, it does sound like they may have tweaked the formulation.

Edited May 6 by Firedrake Cordova

[Grotsmasha]

21 minutes ago, Bouargh said:

If in the past I had some recurring issues with some citadel pots similar to paints too thick or partly solidified, this time it is just the opoosite. Too fluid.

 

Colours that used to give me issues in the past: Whites (all), Yellows (all), Wraithbone - these colours very very often come partly dried, with solid chunks in it or so thick you must dillute...

 

Colours that are giving me issues now: Abbadon Black, Eshin Grey, XV-88, Mechanicus Standard grey - these colour looks like they come as if being very very diluted and 2 or 3 layers are needed to cover the priming. As if they were formulated as layers and not bases.

Once written, it is more or less all the recent pots I bought over the past 6-8 months. Except Reds that are still behaving OK. Rest of my range is made of older pots. Some as olds as the early 90´s and still perfects. Can´t say that the recent paint have the same life expectancy...

 

 

Actually, check you haven't accidentally picked up the "Air" version of the paint, they sit right beside the normal ones in-store. It'll say Air right under the name.

I made the mistake once, now I do this on purpose for the problematic whites, yellows, etc.

[Bouargh]

2 hours ago, Firedrake Cordova said:

That sounds frustrating.  Do you have a local GW store you can take them to and ask? If it's affecting lots of them, it does sound like they may have tweaked the formulation.

 

Well, frustrating, yes and no. On big models it avoids getting to dillute and do 2 coats on large panels - my Styrix knight ended up OK, so it does not necesarry means any issue. Yet,oOn small models, it is anyhow more problematic as the attention to details it requires tend to make the painting process larger and more painful. Getting to correct the calfs on infantery models or aleatory parts of the armours because these ends up with appearing whitish marks of the primer underneath is indeed a task I´d like to avoid. 

ALternative is prime everythink black and jump on Slapchop alike technique after that. drybrushing everything grey and white before dipping into Contrasts... But it is not my way. So far.  

 

And, no, no GW store nearby. The closest is 4:30 hours drive. The second closest ones (ex aqueo) are 6:00 hours drive away. (solamente to go there, the same time way back).  

 

2 hours ago, Grotsmasha said:

Actually, check you haven't accidentally picked up the "Air" version of the paint, they sit right beside the normal ones in-store. It'll say Air right under the name.

I made the mistake once, now I do this on purpose for the problematic whites, yellows, etc.

 

Made the mistake once, picking up "dry" instead of normal. I am very careful since that episode... And in that case, there is no mistake. For base colours, in many cases, some air paints are still OK without making necesary multiple coats - I sued for a while a Valejo formulated for Air and brush (in big bottles) for mat black and it used to be perfectly fine.   

 

Anyway, Thanks all for the feedback

[Firedrake Cordova]

1 hour ago, Bouargh said:

And, no, no GW store nearby. The closest is 4:30 hours drive.

Oof - that's quite the trek!  

[GreenScorpion]

The advantage of the more watery version of Abbadon Black is that it actually works better in the summer when the temperatures get to 40ºC outside as it dries slower than the thicker version, but I doubt it was intentional.

 

13 minutes ago, Firedrake Cordova said:

Oof - that's quite the trek!  

Welcome to the Iberian Peninsula. Portugal doesn't even have a GW store so my closest GW store is across the border in Spain

[Bouargh]

35 minutes ago, GreenScorpion said:

Welcome to the Iberian Peninsula. Portugal doesn't even have a GW store so my closest GW store is across the border in Spain

 

Indeed - Bilbao, Pamplona or Madrid for me...

And in terms of physical FLGS, I would say that except the last hobby shop surviving in Gijón, the closest ones are in León or Santander (which are both already 1:30/2:00 away). Then Lugo/A Coruña (3:00). All the other ones have closed since COVID. 

 

Collateral damage is that gaming groups are a ressource of certain scarity. So if you can find a one, you do your best to stay inside... And with susch a complex supply chain, you are very often facing the same lists... Which really benefits to a higher grade of implementation of low model counts games such as KT and Underworld for example...